LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

I’ve noticed you seem to skirt the main question people have asked about you. What are your thoughts on Eric Bitz and buynicecards now that’s you’ve seen this thread? Do you thinks it’s wise to continue using buynicecards stands? Do you think he’s done anything wrong? You know him personally and seems like you could help others going forward since you’ve helped so many other members on this site.

It's not hard to figure out why certain members refuse to comment on BNC. They say they know him "personally", yet state it is just by going to shows and speaking. If you really knew him on a personal level, you'd know how much of a slimy business and shady practice he is running. None of the guys mentioned comment on BNC directly because they either a.) know what is going on and have submitted cards thru BNC, b.) afraid to speak up or have a spine b/c BNC has cards that they need, or c.) profit from the card altering and selling.

A typical, normal response by individuals who ask about associations or comments about BNC would say it is disgusting and distance themselves from that person in question or at least stop promoting them,etc, if these collectors "truly loved the hobby". However, most just want to sell their cards or complete these rare sets or get the grades they need.

[cypher]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

A typical, normal response by individuals who ask about associations or comments about BNC would say it is disgusting and distance themselves from that person in question or at least stop promoting them,etc, if these collectors "truly loved the hobby". However, most just want to sell their cards or complete these rare sets or get the grades they need.

Well said.

I don't think people are accusing Gslayton of anything, they are looking at his cards because of a connection to BNC with the stands. They are also probably looking at 27guy's cards and others that could have bought something from BNC.

Maybe he was paid to use his stands, maybe he had good experiences buying cards and promoted BNC because he liked the stands. After all the evidence in this thread a response would seem like a good idea. "I won't promote BNC anymore", "I will continue to use the stands because he hasn't wronged me yet" No response at all looks suspicious from a vocal member of Blowout with a massive vested interest in the hobby.

[verona]

Originally Posted by splum

hahaha and of course the first effing reply in this thread is from Verona who also sent cards to Sohrob to be trimmed before going to BGS. This is sick.

Hi, I don’t know you, and I sincerely don’t understand like you can be sure I sent my card to Sohrob to be trimmed??!
At the time I didn’t have many trusted guys in the USA like now and I thought he was great guy and trusted member so I asked him a favor to help me out with submission. I never submitted a card my self, and also for high-end Cards I was always nervous for grading because like European Collector is always harder then like in America.
I am replying to this post because a friend of mine showed it to me last night! I don’t have to change your mind, if you think I am a scammer is your thought and everyone is free to have his thoughts, but I know I am not a scammer and many guys in this hobby trust me 100% and they will be fine to send first in a trade or send me f&f PayPal in any kind of transaction!!
Sincerely I am surprised how you can think I would be sent my cards to someone who trim card (I still don’t know if Sohrob really did this or not) but if I know someone is a scammer I would sent him over $35k in Cards?!? Are you serious!!?!
I lost a lots of money in that transaction and still not talk bad of him, because I don’t know what real happened in that shipping!!! I believe in Karma and I did some wrong things in the past, so I got some bad things back to me, this is Karma...and now I trust the best life style is help others person because we need help us each other to be good persons.
I am sorry for my English, isn’t so good but I think you can understand what I meant.
Thanks
Enrico


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[rj.cataldo]

For reference I pulled up a pic of my Platinum Medallion. This was purchased in 2015, not from BNC. This is an old pic so I
had to zoom in and take a screenshot. Quality may be a bit lower because of that. I don’t have any reAson to believe this card was trimmed, though it’s not out of the realm of possibility of course. I think variation on these cards we have seen are far more likely due to factory cuts than anything else.




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[corndog]

Originally Posted by verona

Hi, I don’t know you, and I sincerely don’t understand like you can be sure I sent my card to Sohrob to be trimmed??!
At the time I didn’t have many trusted guys in the USA like now and I thought he was great guy and trusted member so I asked him a favor to help me out with submission. I never submitted a card my self, and also for high-end Cards I was always nervous for grading because like European Collector is always harder then like in America.
I am replying to this post because a friend of mine showed it to me last night! I don’t have to change your mind, if you think I am a scammer is your thought and everyone is free to have his thoughts, but I know I am not a scammer and many guys in this hobby trust me 100% and they will be fine to send first in a trade or send me f&f PayPal in any kind of transaction!!
Sincerely I am surprised how you can think I would be sent my cards to someone who trim card (I still don’t know if Sohrob really did this or not) but if I know someone is a scammer I would sent him over $35k in Cards?!? Are you serious!!?!
I lost a lots of money in that transaction and still not talk bad of him, because I don’t know what real happened in that shipping!!! I believe in Karma and I did some wrong things in the past, so I got some bad things back to me, this is Karma...and now I trust the best life style is help others person because we need help us each other to be good persons.
I am sorry for my English, isn’t so good but I think you can understand what I meant.
Thanks
Enrico


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

So you just admitted that you are okay with scamming Paypal using friends and family on any transaction?

Different rabbit hole, but it is stealing from Paypal...

[theLUCKYshow]

Uggggggghhh.

What are we doing here guys? We're doing that thing again where we attack each other instead of focusing on BNCs cards and cards he's consigned. Can we get back to "the goods"?

And his relationship with known trimmers such as UNKLBNZ. He had to know who he was dealing with, right? If so, couldn't UNKLBNZ be Eric's card doctor?

Or what was that lead about Eric working for Shreve Crump and Low? Could he have had access to a diamond cutter? Can those even be used to trim cards?

GSlayton, you've said before that you're friends with Eric which makes this a difficult situation and thread to navigate through. I understand to a certain extent you've been dragged into this thread with BODA work that is inconclusive. I can also understand why you wouldn't want to respond to certain members on these boards as some of their questions are leading and loaded. However, I'm sure you can understand why your BNC stands irk certian people the wrong way even though you have the right to do so. You're a smart guy who should understand the optics of using those stands. Its like wearing a Red Sox hat at Yankee stadium, or vice versa. A part of it had to be you making a stand (no pun intended) for Eric, though, right? As a friend.

Verona, early on in this thread there were a lot of arrows pointing at Sohrob as the trimmer of #74 as he was the middleman between Rookies and Eric. People immediately looked to your thread (including myself) and wondered what Sohrobs role was as middleman in your unfortunate lost mail experience. However as more evidence stacks up against BNC and more people with experience in the high-end (buybuymj) say Sohrob wasn't the magician we made him out to be, the more doubt grows about his role in all of this. Could he have been partners with Eric? Sure, but the case against him surrounds around a whole lot of speculation thrown in with some circumstantial evidence. That comment made towards you occurred early on in this thread when suspicion of Sohrob was at its highest. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, regardless, as many still believe he had some nefarious role in all of this.





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[verona]

Originally Posted by corndog

So you just admitted that you are okay with scamming Paypal using friends and family on any transaction?

Different rabbit hole, but it is stealing from Paypal...

No man!
I told that if you know someone who does dishonest things like trimming cards, would you trust him to send $35k in Cards???!!!!!
Guys please don’t put in my mouth thinks I don’t said and I don’t think, so if you are here to help and give advices is ok, please not stupid question like this one.
Thanks I really appreciate


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[verona]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

Uggggggghhh.

What are we doing here guys? We're doing that thing again where we attack each other instead of focusing on BNCs cards and cards he's consigned. Can we get back to "the goods"?

And his relationship with known trimmers such as UNKLBNZ. He had to know who he was dealing with, right? If so, couldn't UNKLBNZ be Eric's card doctor?

Or what was that lead about Eric working for Shreve Crump and Low? Could he have had access to a diamond cutter? Can those even be used to trim cards?

GSlayton, you've said before that you're friends with Eric which makes this a difficult situation and thread to navigate through. I also understand to a certain extent you've been dragged into this thread with BODA work that is inconclusive. I can also understand why you wouldn't want to respond to certain members on these boards as some of their questions are leading and loaded. However, I'm sure you can understand why your BNC stands irk certian people the wrong way even though you have the right to do so. You're a smart guy who should understood the optics of using those stands. Its like wearing a Red Sox hat at Yankee stadium, or vice versa. A part of it had to be you making a stand (no pun intended) for Eric, though, right? As a friend.

Verona, early on in this thread there were a lot of arrows pointing at Sohrob as the trimmer of #74 as he was the middleman between Rookies and Eric. People immediately looked to your thread (including myself) and wondered what Sohrobs role was as middleman in your unfortunate lost mail experience. However as more evidence stacks up against BNC and more people with experience in the high-end (buybuymj) say Sohrob wasn't the magician we made him out to be, the more doubt grows about his role in all of this. Could he have been partners with Eric? Sure, but the case against him surrounds around a whole lot of speculation thrown in with some circumstantial evidence. That comment made towards you occurred early on in this thread when suspicion of Sohrob was at its highest. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, regardless, as many still believe he had some nefarious role in all of this.





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I really appreciate your post, I am here like to you to help out and try to understand more about this bad situation and scamming of our hobby!
I always got great and fast sales and trade with Sohrob and I thought he could be involved in part of this #@#@#@#@, but if I don’t judge him and I lost $35k why others peoples take fast opinion of him or others...Sincerely Eric seems clearly guilty out of this story, I never talked with him or bought one of his HYPED CARDS in ebay! I know well that Sohrob needed money fast to buy the indoor Football team, so he contacted Eric to sell better and faster his cards...he also didn’t had the time to sel Cards because he is a busy businessman and with 2 little children.
Maybe he know that Eric trimmed cards or not, but I can say that he never talked about him with bad words or something like this...always great opinion and told me that Eric was good if you needs to sell fast and with no issues because he had a good name and reputation in the hobby.
I hope none will get scammed from him again but I really lost my cards, so I am not trying to defend him, I just didn’t judge Sohrob and because I trust persons until they won’t be judged guilty from the justice or I saw them scamming peoples with my eyes or something trusted member who can confirm this.
BTW I am glad to reply to any questions, if they are directed to help out about this story.
Best


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[MeteoriteGuy]

Originally Posted by Starman101

Just because another collector had good experiences with BNC and uses their stand for a card does not mean he is advertising, responsible, or condones the sellers actions in their other dealings

It 100% means he is advertising and condoning such actions.

We are pretty much to the point we need a blackball list. You are pretty much a complete moron if you would even consider buying from BNC...or his associates, like gslayton.
.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by MeteoriteGuy

It 100% means he is advertising and condoning such actions.

We are pretty much to the point we need a blackball list. You are pretty much a complete moron if you would even consider buying from BNC...or his associates, like gslayton.
.

You're not alone in that feeling.

Sorry for derailing the thread a bit. Yes, there are copies of the MJ Platinum that appear to be cut at the same point that gslayton's is. There are other copies that appear to be cut slightly longer. Probably factory variance.

[Silentcommit]

Originally Posted by Starman101

I too own a 97-98 BGS 9 Jordan PM (BGS serial 0007724131) and THEY ALL match to mine

Agree these are definately not trimmed

Just because another collector had good experiences with BNC and uses their stand for a card does not mean he is advertising, responsible, or condones the sellers actions in their other dealings

I personally did not have a good experience with BNC and do not feel the seller is completely honest imo to say the least

However I just took it as a learning experience and moved on

You have to treat everyone as an individual and not jump to conclusions

Gslayton is the real deal, a true blue collector

This thread is really becoming toxic

Well said.

[Deadshot]

I thought we were on a pretty good path here at one point - if we want to make any progress moving forward, the logical progression needs to be:

1) Find concrete evidence of a trimmed card
2) Trace the lineage so we can figure out who bought and sold it at one point and also who owns it now
3) Encourage that person to take some sort of action on said card

It doesn't seem like BNC is going to do the right thing on the LeBron's, the Kobe, etc. I don't think there's any amount of pressure here that will change his mind on that. Getting his customers to realize their cards were manipulated could be the catalyst we need.

I'm going to quote this post and bring it back to the forefront here - not because I personally posted it, but because this is the exact process I started here with the 2007-08 LeBron James Limited Logos. There are some incomplete pieces that I need your help with - but I feel reasonably comfortable that I've narrowed the trimming down to a 6 week timespan (which was NOT when BNC owned the card as far as I know).

I've put a lot of work into this - which was all my own choosing of course, I'm not holding that against anyone. I'd appreciate it if those of you that have been following this could chime in and let me know what you think about this process and this card specifically.

Originally Posted by Deadshot

I like the fact that you guys are piecing together the next steps.

Until we have buyers to step up, I'm going to try and build cases for some of these cards. The one that keeps sticking in my mind is the 2007-08 LeBron Limited Logos. Through a series of Worthpoint searches, Google searches, Photobucket searches, and emails with a dealer, I've constructed a timeline for a card we know for a fact is trimmed. There are some missing pieces that I'm going to need help uncovering. If you feel I have unnecessarily jumped to any conclusions, please let me know.

https://img.comc.com/i/Basketball/20...430e&size=zoom

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...-50-bgs-8-5-10



Thanks to theleica for creating videos that show how this card has drastically changed:

https://youtu.be/EJuO1SEucoY

https://youtu.be/ysL7m8BLdFo

https://youtu.be/uPlicTa3GQk

https://youtu.be/ONjlOQKuJrE

Nov 3, 2014 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1544434370

Dec 28, 2014 - Instagram user and eBay seller carterqw shows the card on his Instagram (with no apparent trimming). He tells another collector it is not for sale and part of his PC.

Nov 17, 2015 - Instagram user and eBay seller carterqw shows the card off again (with no apparent trimming) https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram...NzQ2MQ%3D%3D.2

***I asked this Instagram user if he was the person who submitted the card for grading initially. He believes he had it graded before he sold it, but doesn't remember for sure on the date.***

April 13, 2016 - slabbed BGS 8.5 0009149689

June 23, 2016 - PWCC eBay sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1823096949

***After this sale, it appears someone cracked the card out of the slab and trimmed it.***

Aug 16, 2016 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1825971044

Sept 6, 2016 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1828846872

Oct 5, 2016 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1833072541

***Notice the card sold 3 times in a very short timespan. Remember that Probstein will not open a case until 10 days after the sale. This raises several questions. Was this card shilled? Non paying bidders? Was the card so repulsive in person it was returned? A combination of these reasons?***

Late 2017 - Known dealer trades for BOTH the 5/50 and 11/50 from a collector in New York.

***Remember that I have some suspicions about the 11/50 as well. Is it merely a coincidence that they traveled together? I didn't have this info when I initially suspected the two cards to have been trimmed seperately.***

Early 2018 (within 4 months of acquisition) - traded to someone in Manhattan. The previous owner will not give a name, but claims that both the person they acquired from and the person they traded to would not do anything to those cards. Regarding the 5/50, "It was definitely not gradable when I had them."

As for the 11/50 (that is now for sale as a BGS 9 with BNC):

"I would say it dont look like a 9...I didnt try to grade it but I do grade a lot and it dont look gradable when it was in my possession."

March 15, 2018 - slabbed BGS 8.5 0010426022 (video evidence shows there are large portions missing)

????????, 2018 - sold by BNC as indicated on https://buynicecards.com/product/200...-50-bgs-8-5-10

So what pieces of information would really help us out here?

1. Who bought the card from PWCC on June 23, 2016?

2. What happened with the 3 rapid fire transactions of the card via Probstein in late 2016?

3. Who graded the card in March 2018? How can we figure this out? Do we have to find another card from this batch? How does this work?

4. Who bought the card from BNC and when?

5. Does that person still own the card now and do they want to do anything about it?

Regardless of whether or not BNC graded the card in 2018 himself, his behavior here is questionable. He's seen many Limited Logos in person - he can recognize when one looks trimmed or off. He's trying to place the onus on either other sellers or BGS for his own financial gain. That's not ethical.

[KhalDrogo]

June 23, 2016 - PWCC eBay sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1823096949

***After this sale, it appears someone cracked the card out of the slab and trimmed it.***

Aug 16, 2016 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1825971044

I can't find a link to the PWCC auction anywhere. It's frustrating that the auction pages still exist, but not in a searchable way. Somebody would have had to post the link somewhere (BO, Pintrest, etc.) for you to have access to it.

That card was likely subbed to BGS after trimming, and was rejected for being altered. Your best bet at linking that card to another is to dig through BGS label numbers for that window of time, and find the card with a no-grade attached to it. Then look at the surrounding serial numbers, and try to find somebody selling those cards. Could end up being probstein though.

By the way, with PWCC's vault going live and the ability to transact through the vault just right around the corner, good luck ever doing this kind of work again. All transactions will be private.

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I can't find a link to the PWCC auction anywhere. It's frustrating that the auction pages still exist, but not in a searchable way. Somebody would have had to post the link somewhere (BO, Pintrest, etc.) for you to have access to it.

Thank you for your response. Yeah that was one of the last additions I made to the timeline. I don't even remember how I found it but I remember it was not a traditional search. I tried a lot of word combinations.

The link still works if you copy and paste it into an address bar instead of just clicking on it. At this point in the timeline, its still in the slab that ends in 9689.

"Late Additions 2007 Exquisite Collection Limit Logos LeBron James AUTO PATCH /50 BGS 8.5 (PWCC)

Gorgeous LeBron production which boasts a stunning three color jersey patch, pristine autograph and limited production run of only 50. Light corner and edge wear is all that prevents a higher grade. As fine as they come and deserving of attention. One of over 15,000 cards, lots, and sets up for bid in our 5th Auction of 2016."

Can you help me with the label numbers? I don't know how to find a list of cards that were slabbed together. Do you just change the last number by one or is there a more comprehensive report? I don't even grade cards so a lot of this is still very new to me.

[KhalDrogo]

There's going to be thousands of cards to go through. You just have to change the serial number by one at the below link, and keep doing it.

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card-lookup

And that's only if it was subbed to BGS and rejected. It could have been sent to PSA. But you would think it was sent somewhere. Why would you trim a card and sell it raw without attempting to grade it?

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

There's going to be thousands of cards to go through. You just have to change the serial number by one at the below link, and keep doing it.

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card-lookup

And that's only if it was subbed to BGS and rejected. It could have been sent to PSA. But you would think it was sent somewhere. Why would you trim a card and sell it raw without attempting to grade it?

Thank you - I've noticed that the majority of the cards I have saved in my files and I've grabbed from Worthpoint/Photobucket are BGS. I'm not saying that to put the blame on them, but it doesn't look like the guys who do this are relying as much on PSA.

[buybuymj]

@Deadshot

Did you miss post #3108 to #3111?

It's already concluded who bought the 2007-08 Exquisite LL LBJ 05/50 and trimmed it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Exquis....m43663.l10137

[Deadshot]

I realize this is such a small sample in the grand scheme of things but here are the 10 cards that were graded immediately before the LL and the 10 after:

Card Serial Number: 0009149679
Set Name : 2010-11 Absolute Memorabilia Hoopla Materials Signatures
Player Name : Derrick Rose/5
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149680
Set Name : 2008-09 Upper Deck Premier Attractions Autographs Jerseys
Player Name : LeBron James
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149681
Set Name : 2014 Absolute
Player Name : Johnny Manziel JSY AU/99
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149682
Set Name : 2015 Select Signatures
Player Name : Bastian Schweinsteiger/39
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149683
Set Name : 2008-09 Exquisite Collection Inscriptions Dual
Player Name : Tracy McGrady/Vince Carter
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149684
Set Name : 2012-13 Immaculate Collection
Player Name : Kyrie Irving JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149685
Set Name : 2007-08 Exquisite Collection Limited Logos
Player Name : Kevin Durant
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149686
Set Name : 2007-08 Upper Deck Premier Rookies Autographs Jerseys Red
Player Name : Kevin Durant
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149687
Set Name : 2008-09 Exquisite Collection Scripted Swatches
Player Name : Russell Westbrook/25
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149688
Set Name : 2007-08 Ultimate Collection Rookies Signature Patches
Player Name : Kevin Durant
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

***I'm bolding this as a reference point - this is the card I'm using as my middle point***

Card Serial Number: 0009149689
Set Name : 2007-08 Exquisite Collection Limited Logos
Player Name : LeBron James
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149690
Set Name : 2007-08 Exquisite Collection Autographs Patches
Player Name : Kevin Durant
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149691
Set Name : 2014-15 Immaculate Collection Dual Autographs
Player Name : John Stockton/Karl Malone
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149692
Set Name : 2014-15 Panini National Treasures Gold
Player Name : Zach LaVine JSY AU
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149693
Set Name : 2007-08 SPx Spectrum
Player Name : Kevin Durant JSY AU
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149694
Set Name : 2007-08 Exquisite Collection Year One Autographs
Player Name : Kevin Durant
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149695
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection Patches Autographs
Player Name : Stephon Marbury
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149696
Set Name : 2015 Bowman Chrome Prospects Blue Wave Refractors
Player Name : Steven Matz
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149697
Set Name : 2011 Limited USA Baseball National Teams Prime Patches
Player Name : Albert Almora/20
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149698
Set Name : 1989 Upper Deck
Player Name : Ken Griffey Jr. RC
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

Card Serial Number: 0009149699
Set Name : 2009-10 SP Authentic
Player Name : Braden Holtby RC
Date Graded : Wednesday, April 13, 2016

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

@Deadshot

Did you miss post #3108 to #3111?

It's already concluded who bought the 2007-08 Exquisite LL LBJ 05/50 and trimmed it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Exquis....m43663.l10137

Hmm...wow. I remember reading this now but for some reason it didn't click when I was piecing all of that together. I blame information overload

Well this makes me happy because it fills in some of the missing pieces. I'm going to adjust my timeline a bit with a few more details.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....p2471758.m4792

Does anybody know who's this guy with about 8,750 feedback? As for the Exquisite LL LBJ 05/50, I think this is the guy who's guilty, most likely. PWCC must know his user name with its item number and his sale record. The funny thing is this guy trimmed it wrong, trimmed it too much, either he realized it and didn't send it for grading or he sent it for grading and it returned as altered. Somehow it graded successfully in 2018 and now in BNC's possession.

Originally Posted by Jay9Suited

None other than notorious trimmer unklbnz who has changed his name to thenandnowcollectibles

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...edbackAsSeller

Thanks for pointing this out again buybuymj!

[Deadshot]

That information takes care of a few of my questions. I have updated my timeline and I'll follow with what I believe needs to be figured out next.

Originally Posted by Deadshot

https://img.comc.com/i/Basketball/20...430e&size=zoom

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...-50-bgs-8-5-10



Thanks to theleica for creating videos that show how this card has drastically changed:

https://youtu.be/EJuO1SEucoY

https://youtu.be/ysL7m8BLdFo

https://youtu.be/uPlicTa3GQk

https://youtu.be/ONjlOQKuJrE

Nov 3, 2014 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1544434370

Dec 28, 2014 - Instagram user and eBay seller carterqw shows the card on his Instagram (with no apparent trimming). He tells another collector it is not for sale and part of his PC.

Nov 17, 2015 - Instagram user and eBay seller carterqw shows the card off again (with no apparent trimming) https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram...NzQ2MQ%3D%3D.2

***I asked this Instagram user if he was the person who submitted the card for grading initially. He believes he had it graded before he sold it, but doesn't remember for sure on the date.***

April 13, 2016 - slabbed BGS 8.5 0009149689

June 23, 2016 - Card is sold on eBay by PWCC and purchased by Jason Stern AKA unklbnz AKA thenandnowcollectibles https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1823096949

***After this sale, it appears someone (presumably the buyer) cracked the card out of the slab and trimmed it.***

Aug 16, 2016 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1825971044

Sept 6, 2016 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1828846872

Oct 5, 2016 Probstein sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...gos-1833072541

***Notice the card sold 3 times in a very short timespan. Remember that Probstein will not open a case until 10 days after the sale. This raises several questions. Was this card shilled? Non paying bidders? Was the card so repulsive in person it was returned? A combination of these reasons? Several members have concluded that it was a failed trim job and the buyers didn't like the result.***

Late 2017 - Known dealer trades for BOTH the 5/50 and 11/50 from a collector in New York.

***Remember that I have some suspicions about the 11/50 as well. Is it merely a coincidence that they traveled together? I didn't have this info when I initially suspected the two cards to have been trimmed separately.***

Early 2018 (within 4 months of acquisition) - traded to someone in Manhattan. The previous owner will not give a name, but claims that both the person they acquired from and the person they traded to would not do anything to those cards. Regarding the 5/50, "It was definitely not gradable when I had them."

As for the 11/50 (that is now for sale as a BGS 9 with BNC):

"I would say it dont look like a 9...I didnt try to grade it but I do grade a lot and it dont look gradable when it was in my possession."

March 15, 2018 - slabbed BGS 8.5 0010426022 (video evidence shows there are large portions missing)

????????, 2018 - sold by BNC as indicated on https://buynicecards.com/product/200...-50-bgs-8-5-10

So what pieces of information would really help us out here?

1. Who bought the card from PWCC on June 23, 2016? ***SOLVED*** https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...55123&page=125

2. What happened with the 3 rapid fire transactions of the card via Probstein in late 2016? ***Presumably a bad trim job and unhappy buyers***

3. Who graded the card in March 2018? How can we figure this out? Do we have to find another card from this batch? How does this work?

4. Who bought the card from BNC and when?

5. Does that person still own the card now and do they want to do anything about it?

Regardless of whether or not BNC graded the card in 2018 himself, his behavior here is questionable. He's seen many Limited Logos in person - he can recognize when one looks trimmed or off. He's trying to place the onus on either other sellers or BGS for his own financial gain. That's not ethical.

So I think it comes down to this:

1. Who graded the card in March 2018?

2. Who bought the card from BNC and when?

3. Does that person still own the card now and do they want to do anything about it?

[buybuymj]

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/37...p2047675.l2565

Here is bid history of probstein123's last auction of the 2007-08 Exquisite LL LBJ 05/50. I don't know who's that winning bidder with 472 feedback, it could be someone's second account, anyways since probstein123 didn't relist it anymore that person probably paid for the card and kept it for a while. I see unklbnz was bidding as well, he looks like a total package from this card alone.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/37...p2047675.l2565

Here is bid history of probstein123's last auction of the 2007-08 Exquisite LL LBJ 05/50. I don't know who's that winning bidder with 472 feedback, it could be someone's second account, anyways since probstein123 didn't relist it anymore that person probably paid for the card and kept it for a while. I see unklbnz was bidding as well, he looks like a total package from this card alone.

How are you coming up with these auction links? Or do you just have them saved from when they were live?

[buybuymj]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

How are you coming up with these auction links? Or do you just have them saved from when they were live?

There's no secret, I just save some sale records like LBJ Exquisite database and this card was one of them.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Deadshot

That information takes care of a few of my questions. I have updated my timeline and I'll follow with what I believe needs to be figured out next.

So I think it comes down to this:

1. Who graded the card in March 2018?

2. Who bought the card from BNC and when?

3. Does that person still own the card now and do they want to do anything about it?

I'm not sure the grader of the card in March 2018 really matters since it's been established the card was trimmed years prior.

The two cards graded surrounding the Lebron are a Jamal Murray Flawless that tntnorthnj sold in April 2018 (https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ald-1926257321) and a Denzel Valentine that is for sale by one of our BO members (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-17-Nat...ba87%7Ciid%3A1). So if these cards were graded in the same order, and it's entirely possible they weren't, whoever had them graded may have sold them at a show in the Northeast since they ended up in the hands of three different Northeast dealers.