LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Common sense and logic

Common sense and logic means you caught someone only because the cards were numbered. Plenty of cards you merely have not caught or noticed because they are not numbered. Plenty of other key cards also have gotten through. There is a reason certain dealers can make a living submitting cards for grading whereas others cannot submit the same kind of cards as they would not be gradable in original state, or if gradable they buy what is already graded and improve upon them.

[superdan49]

This thread inspired me to do a little digging on football (specifically Tom Brady) cards. So the problem is neither confined to basketball, nor to cards graded by BGS:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1261864

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by superdan49

This thread inspired me to do a little digging on football (specifically Tom Brady) cards. So the problem is neither confined to basketball, nor to cards graded by BGS:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1261864

ereeves1011eric?


God these coincidences are becoming a b$@h.




Regarding BNC and his current or future dealings, I would hope by now most would have the sense to steer clear of dealing with or promoting him entirely, as we have more than a reasonable amount of evidence that shows he was at the very least aware of the trimming operation. He's clearly been shown to have lied repeatedly, and dodged first hand accountability for his actions.


I know. He holds the golden key to a lot of coveted cards in the hobby. Many of which people may have been trying to source for years.

But when do you start sacrificing morality and ethics for a piece of cardboard? It doesn't matter if it's a trimmer, a child abuser, or a bank robber...if you continue to knowingly do business with or associate with these people it's a bad look.

The mentality of 'well, they didn't do it to me' shows a lack of awareness and empathy for those that may have unknowingly been taken to the cleaners.

[DajuanWagner]

So, can someone summarize the thread to date???? I have read bits and pieces and just wondering with all the twists and turns this thread has taken (oh, and thank you to all the Mods who have let this thread roll on), just wondering what the recap is right now.

Who all is innocent until proven guilty or is it guilt by association? If someone robs a bank, is the person driving the getaway car just as guilty?

One of my closest friends has a new nickname for BNC.

It is "Trim Shady".

I spit out my coffee on that one.


There are a lot of names that have been thrown out in this thread and the only one to come back, from what I saw, was Adam trying to defend his actions, which most thought was pretty lame.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by DajuanWagner

So, can someone summarize the thread to date???? I have read bits and pieces and just wondering with all the twists and turns this thread has taken (oh, and thank you to all the Mods who have let this thread roll on), just wondering what the recap is right now.

Who all is innocent until proven guilty or is it guilt by association? If someone robs a bank, is the person driving the getaway car just as guilty?

One of my closest friends has a new nickname for BNC.

It is "Trim Shady".

I spit out my coffee on that one.


There are a lot of names that have been thrown out in this thread and the only one to come back, from what I saw, was Adam trying to defend his actions, which most thought was pretty lame.

In your specific example, yes but that's not really a true comparison of what's going on here.

Eric is guilty, that's for sure. Whether it's directly or guilty by association he has repeatedly lied and misrepresented what he knows to either protect himself or someone else.

Fifthdown: there is a lot of smoke there but nothing concrete. He's obviously got a connection to Eric and was introduced to him by his brother around 10 years ago and has been using him and his connections ever since. I doubt he had anything to do with the trimming but the manipulation is certainly possible.

Sohrob: Guilty as far as I'm concerned because he's the connection to what seems like all of the trimmed cards but he's "gone" now. Seems like he made his money and got out.

Adam: Certainly guilty of withholding valuable information whether it was intentional or not. He was protecting Eric for his own personal gain and just looked the other way.

JJohnson: I'm not even sure why his name came up but I certainly haven't found or seen any info that implicates him in any of this. Like I said, I wouldn't personally buy cards from BNC but won't crucify someone for doing it

GSlayton: Obvious connection to Eric and if he continues to promote his fraudulent business that's guilty as far as I'm concerned. It's like the guy who was recommending people invest with Madoff, he knew about the scam and continued to direct people towards it... guilty by association.

Rookies: I'm surprised nobody has really taken a deep look at this guy because he certainly couldn't keep his stories straight in the beginning but I think got lost in the shuffle.

Did I miss anybody?

[COMCMax]

Checkout the corners on this one before and after.

Currently listed.
1999 Kobe Bryant Fleer Game Breakers SP Die Cut Insert /100 PSA 10 Pop 2

Sold 4/11/2012
1999/00 FLEER TRADITION KOBE BRYANT GAME BREAKERS #53/100

[ClipsandVols]

Originally Posted by COMCMax

Checkout the corners on this one before and after.

Currently listed.
1999 Kobe Bryant Fleer Game Breakers SP Die Cut Insert /100 PSA 10 Pop 2

Sold 4/11/2012
1999/00 FLEER TRADITION KOBE BRYANT GAME BREAKERS #53/100

Wings posted that one back around the 2,200 post mark.

[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by ClipsandVols

Wings posted that one back around the 2,200 post mark.

Guess I should read the whole thread before I jump in

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by superdan49

This thread inspired me to do a little digging on football (specifically Tom Brady) cards. So the problem is neither confined to basketball, nor to cards graded by BGS:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1261864

I’d be weary of the Championship Ticket on his site. I know it’s only graded a BGS 8.5 with a lot of edge chipping which is normal for those cards. But I know those cards pretty good and the corner looks almost too sharp to me. I can’t say for sure if it’s been tampered with but the corners fresh out of the packs weren’t even that sharp in my experience.

[spuds1961]

Is it getting to the point where you can only trust cards you pull out of packs.

[gomiamigo]

Of course Adam purposefully withheld the most valuable information to date in the thread, we never ever would have seen it had buybuyMJ not created an acc't just to share it with us after Adam, who was fiercely defending ebitz, refused to share it with us as he clamored for more info so we could all make an informed decision.

Then he changed his story in his last post from 'lol his engrish was bad' after people roundly mocked him as the english was perfectly fine and clear and specifically pointing out one card that had been trimmed to 'oh it was late at night I didn't even know what I was reading.'

GMAFB.

[starvela]

Originally Posted by spuds1961

Is it getting to the point where you can only trust cards you pull out of packs.

Or BGS and PSA 8's...Not gonna lie, I'm ocd when it comes to collecting, I always only want gem mint and mint (or close) only cards, but after this thread, I'm more open to an 8 and 8.5 now..On high dollar gem mint stuff, I will without question have to have provenance for sure, either by seller, fellow collector or myself...

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by gomiamigo

Of course Adam purposefully withheld the most valuable information to date in the thread, we never ever would have seen it had buybuyMJ not created an acc't just to share it with us after Adam, who was fiercely defending ebitz, refused to share it with us as he clamored for more info so we could all make an informed decision.

Then he changed his story in his last post from 'lol his engrish was bad' after people roundly mocked him as the english was perfectly fine and clear and specifically pointing out one card that had been trimmed to 'oh it was late at night I didn't even know what I was reading.'

GMAFB.

Sadly, this is how I see it as well. I see 27guy as that super enthusiastic guy I’ve seen post in his top 100 thread, listened to on Cardboard Chronicles, and conversed with occasionally about the Jazz in the team thread last year. I see him as someone who’s intelligent and observant, and as someone who picked up on a number of finer details at the beginning of the thread. And then he somehow mistakenly misses something like this? I don’t see him as someone dumb enough to make this sort of mistake, so the only option is that it was intentional. I don’t think he’s in on some giant scam, but I do think he made a major judgment error here.

[nrm1977]

I feel this is a much bigger problem than most people realize with graded cards. Especially vintage but, now it appears more modern cards as well.

I find it nearly impossible in most situations cards from the 1900s, 30s, 50s can get gem mint grades. Anyhow not to get too far off topic.


The following imagine was from a thread on net54. If I recall correctly, it was within the past couple years. The SGC 4 card was purchased by PWCC according to the post. Then appeared in a PSA 7 holder. You can see in the SGC picture the tape. In the PSA holder you can see small evidence of the tape but, you can clearly see where the card doctor revamped the card.

EDIT: The text message was also from the same thread.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by nrm1977

I feel this is a much bigger problem than most people realize with graded cards. Especially vintage but, now it appears more modern cards as well.

I find it nearly impossible in most situations cards from the 1900s, 30s, 50s can get gem mint grades. Anyhow not to get too far off topic.


The following imagine was from a thread on net54. If I recall correctly, it was within the past couple years. The SGC 4 card was purchased by PWCC according to the post. Then appeared in a PSA 7 holder. You can see in the SGC picture the tape. In the PSA holder you can see small evidence of the tape but, you can clearly see where the card doctor revamped the card.

EDIT: The text message was also from the same thread.

Wow. Am I processing this correctly? PWCC is crooked?

Can you link us to the thread?

[jbarnett83]

This thread just keeps on giving

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Wow. Am I processing this correctly? PWCC is crooked?

Can you link us to the thread?

I can attempt to find it. I would estimate this was 2016.

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Wow. Am I processing this correctly? PWCC is crooked?

Can you link us to the thread?

Originally Posted by nrm1977

I can attempt to find it. I would estimate this was 2016.

I think it's this one here? I considered reading it, but I don't think I have another 80 pages in me lol

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=234837

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by nrm1977

I can attempt to find it. I would estimate this was 2016.

Found it.

Here is where it started to get really interesting:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...234837&page=41

[Frankp2311]

Originally Posted by nrm1977

I feel this is a much bigger problem than most people realize with graded cards. Especially vintage but, now it appears more modern cards as well.

I find it nearly impossible in most situations cards from the 1900s, 30s, 50s can get gem mint grades. Anyhow not to get too far off topic.


The following imagine was from a thread on net54. If I recall correctly, it was within the past couple years. The SGC 4 card was purchased by PWCC according to the post. Then appeared in a PSA 7 holder. You can see in the SGC picture the tape. In the PSA holder you can see small evidence of the tape but, you can clearly see where the card doctor revamped the card.

EDIT: The text message was also from the same thread.

So I’m just curious in this case, since the card appears to not be trimmed, just restored if everyone sees this as a huge issue if the restoration is acknowledged. Artwork can be restored and have its value increased, why can’t tape be removed as long as the card is not altered from its original size. Just curious if I’m alone with not having an issue with this example. Of course it should be noted of any work that has been done.

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Found it.

Here is where it started to get really interesting:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...234837&page=41

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=pwcc

Yes from Feb/2017.

PS- That thread was a good read.

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by Frankp2311

So I’m just curious in this case, since the card appears to not be trimmed, just restored if everyone sees this as a huge issue if the restoration is acknowledged. Artwork can be restored and have its value increased, why can’t tape be removed as long as the card is not altered from its original size. Just curious if I’m alone with not having an issue with this example. Of course it should be noted of any work that has been done.

I feel it should be noted on a flip that a card has been restored.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by Deadshot

I think it's this one here? I considered reading it, but I don't think I have another 80 pages in me lol

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=234837

Check it out around page 41. Unfortunately, to see attachments you have to be registered there unless someone embeds the image in the post. I'd like to get a larger version of the text message screen shot posted above.

That last text message at the bottom looks hilarious by the way. ...but from that screen shot alone, PWCC is openly telling someone to shill the price.

The guy who consigned the card is ALSO in the thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...234837&page=14

username aloondilana

Check these posts out lmao

http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...&postcount=104
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...&postcount=106

Things seem to heat up again around page 50ish

-


I just want to state how disgusted I am by these people. The hobby has been co-opted by absolute scum of the earth. Any one individual is free to do with his/her funds as that person pleases, however, any one person who supports the likes of BNC and now apparently PWCC has zero room to complain about outright counterfeit cards. The issue of counterfeits and buyers not getting the genuine article is akin to people paying for cards reported to be in a certain condition when the cards have actually been trimmed or otherwise undergone alteration from its original state to obfuscate damage or condition. In either case, the genuine article is non-existent, people are paying for a grade and for peace of mind on the authenticity of the card and its condition and they're NOT getting it, they're buying a LIE in either case. Both of these things are damaging to the hobby, but profiteers do not give a shyt. Absolute filth, bottom feeding scum of the earth, lower than that even.

We're a long way from trading in the school yard during recess.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by Frankp2311

So I’m just curious in this case, since the card appears to not be trimmed, just restored if everyone sees this as a huge issue if the restoration is acknowledged. Artwork can be restored and have its value increased, why can’t tape be removed as long as the card is not altered from its original size. Just curious if I’m alone with not having an issue with this example. Of course it should be noted of any work that has been done.

The marks left behind by the tape are still visible. The card's condition has been altered.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

In your specific example, yes but that's not really a true comparison of what's going on here.

Eric is guilty, that's for sure. Whether it's directly or guilty by association he has repeatedly lied and misrepresented what he knows to either protect himself or someone else.

Fifthdown: there is a lot of smoke there but nothing concrete. He's obviously got a connection to Eric and was introduced to him by his brother around 10 years ago and has been using him and his connections ever since. I doubt he had anything to do with the trimming but the manipulation is certainly possible.

Sohrob: Guilty as far as I'm concerned because he's the connection to what seems like all of the trimmed cards but he's "gone" now. Seems like he made his money and got out.

Adam: Certainly guilty of withholding valuable information whether it was intentional or not. He was protecting Eric for his own personal gain and just looked the other way.

JJohnson: I'm not even sure why his name came up but I certainly haven't found or seen any info that implicates him in any of this. Like I said, I wouldn't personally buy cards from BNC but won't crucify someone for doing it

GSlayton: Obvious connection to Eric and if he continues to promote his fraudulent business that's guilty as far as I'm concerned. It's like the guy who was recommending people invest with Madoff, he knew about the scam and continued to direct people towards it... guilty by association.

Rookies: I'm surprised nobody has really taken a deep look at this guy because he certainly couldn't keep his stories straight in the beginning but I think got lost in the shuffle.

Did I miss anybody?

Agree with your comment on rookies. But whereas BNC is a business who is easy to investigate, I don’t even know who rookies is. Hard to get far with that.

I’m also not entirely convinced that sohrob is guilty of anything. He’s conveniently catching blame because he’s not around anymore. His exit from the hobby, as reported by BNC, was proven not to have occurred until at least two years later. He also seems to be very busy with his Fan Controlled Football League - assuming that’s the same Sohrob Farudi. So while his initial exit was viewed as a “I did my dirty deeds, got my money, and now I’m gone”, it seems more to me now that the guy simply became too busy to keep up with his collection.