LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

Yet, when asked the hypothetical question by abra would you buy a graded card from adam who obtained it from BNC you wouldn't.

So you believe/trust Adam in this situation with a card that cost thousands, but not enough to stake your hard earned money yourself?


And your calling out people in this thread for jumping on Adam?


It blows my mind that people continue to defend him.

Really? This is just painful.

I also said I wouldn't buy this card. It has nothing to do with Adam. Even if I 100% believed Adam, I still wouldn't touch a card that's been through BNCs hands.

Get it?

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[jcardstore]

fifthdownsports is 100% involved in this fraud. I still believe that LeBron sale was fraudulent as well if it wasn't he wouldn't have come in here guns blazing calling out everyone who thought it was fake.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by bmf

beyond clueless

Thanks for your insights. And no I'm not beyond clueless. I think on my own. Now go away.

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[Deadshot]

I haven't found anything suspicious yet but I think we need to do a thorough inspection of all the Durants that are listed. It also might be worth taking a snapshot of them now in case any of them happen to "disappear."

[Chain]

Sorry, out of topic.... but wooooowww!!

I thought the pic of the Jordan 97 Masterpieces and Grant Hill Credentials 1/1 would be the best cards pic of the year, then buybuymj drops that Jordan /23 auto hoard. It even has a Wilt Inkredible Level 2 for good measure. Crazy end of the year revelations.

Carry on.

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Can we just forget about Adam? Seriously it's wasting space on what is otherwise an extremely important thread.

We're dealing with what is potentially a multi-million dollar fraud and y'all are still worried about crucifying Adam, I don't get it.

That aside, the problem with these huge frauds is that the only way to blow it up is to get someone in the inner circle to talk which won't happen because everyone stands to make a ton of money from this. I bet that rookies is involved or knows much more than he's saying but again, there's no incentive for him to say anything. That fifthdownsports guy is 100% involved and I believe that LeBron was a fake sale

The evidence is extremely clear that BNC has trimmed cards in his possession but there's no concrete evidence that he trimmed or even knew about the trimming. Chances are he didn't trim the cards and had a trimmer (Sohrob) because then there's plausible deniability and since Sohrob is out of the hobby he's washed his hands of the whole thing so he's not coming back.

What we need to do is find someone who has purchased a trimmed card from BNC and push them to press charges because outside of a subpoena this investigation will get nowhere because nobody can prove anything.

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

In the eyes of the law, sure, but we know he is dirty. There's no doubt he had full intent to sell these trimmed cards. Fifthdownsports, who admitted to knowing the guy personally and being friends with him, "bought" a /99 for a supposed 250k. (Highest VERIFIED sale was for a /23 at 95k.) BNC raises the price on the one he had listed, I would not be surprised if they were setting up to defraud a couple of poor shmoes with these altered cards for a monster amount each. BNC even mentioned fifthdownsports in his crocodile tear filled post.



Go read fifthdownsports' posts and tell me if you'd like to welcome him with open arms. If guys like that are moving the hobby, it's not forward. It really does look like they were setting up for a big move to alter the market (no pun intended) for personal financial gain.

edit: the part in bold, by the way, I interpreted like this: People like me stand to make a lot of money by selling to people who think the cards are worth increasingly excessive amounts, more than I can currently imagine.

Not trying to digress...One should not trust such sales when select few people own and control the market for such cards. I have mentioned something similar on Vegas Dave and possible fake ebay sales here-

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1236981

Also, one has to be careful and not trust some of the ebay sale prices. Here is an example where different ebay sellers can form a group and shill bid on items to artificially inflate the sale price-

Post #4357 in the link below-

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...87050&page=175


I have also seen people using fake names and trying to manipulate and take advantage of sellers. Someone contacted me recently saying they want to mediate between me and an ebay buyer, when in fact the person trying to mediate was actually the buyer with a fake name and email. All these make me feel that I should just get out of this hobby!

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by smalltown

Umm...

Oh man lol

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[Wings]

Heres raw and graded 9.5 on Durant Limited Logos, Im not really seeing a difference.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...patch-logos-07

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...s-9-5-10-pop-3

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by Deadshot

I haven't found anything suspicious yet but I think we need to do a thorough inspection of all the Durants that are listed. It also might be worth taking a snapshot of them now in case any of them happen to "disappear."

There had been mention early on in the thread about Sohrob also being involved with trimmed KD exquisites. His threads mention tons of them. Where there's Eric, seems like Sohrob is always nearby.

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[Onions]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

It seems like the employee was a representative but had nothing to do with grading.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...2&share_type=t


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Yeah, most of that thread was pure heresay, but the timing and the supposed details matched up with my line of thinking. I highly doubt anyone would hear about graders being terminated from BGS for reasons being discussed. Would be a huge black eye and no doubt would hurt business. That would be swept under a pretty heavy rug.

I do agree with the take that the only way this really gets "solved", is obviously one of the parties involved coming forward, or someone that bought a trimmed card from Sohrob or BNC coming forward and pressing charges. Pretty much the only way to get BNC, Sohrob, BGS, et al. talking.

I posted the article in a previous post referencing 2 Lebron RPAs that were sold in 2015 to a member here (backtoreality) One was a BGS 9.5 /23, and another BGS 9.5 /99. The article says banned member crazyweslove brokered the deal for the /23. Buybuymj located the /99 for him. Its a good writeup and for his sake I really hope his cards are clean, but if either Sohrob or BNC touched these cards at any time before he purchased them, I would be extremely concerned.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by Onions

Yeah, most of that thread was pure heresay, but the timing and the supposed details matched up with my line of thinking. I highly doubt anyone would hear about graders being terminated from BGS for reasons being discussed. Would be a huge black eye and no doubt would hurt business. That would be swept under a pretty heavy rug.

I do agree with the take that the only way this really gets "solved", is obviously one of the parties involved coming forward, or someone that bought a trimmed card from Sohrob or BNC coming forward and pressing charges. Pretty much the only way to get BNC, Sohrob, BGS, et al. talking.

I posted the article in a previous post referencing 2 Lebron RPAs that were sold in 2015 to a member here (backtoreality) One was a BGS 9.5 /23, and another BGS 9.5 /99. The article says banned member crazyweslove brokered the deal for the /23. Buybuymj located the /99 for him. Its a good writeup and for his sake I really hope his cards are clean, but if either Sohrob or BNC touched these cards at any time before he purchased them, I would be extremely concerned.

We checked on Bill Lees cards a while back. His cards are clean.

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[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

Not trying to digress...One should not trust such sales when select few people own and control the market for such cards. I have mentioned something similar on Vegas Dave and possible fake ebay sales here-

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1236981

Also, one has to be careful and not trust some of the ebay sale prices. Here is an example where different ebay sellers can form a group and shill bid on items to artificially inflate the sale price-

Post #4357 in the link below-

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...87050&page=175


I have also seen people using fake names and trying to manipulate and take advantage of sellers. Someone contacted me recently saying they want to mediate between me and an ebay buyer, when in fact the person trying to mediate was actually the buyer with a fake name and email. All these make me feel that I should just get out of this hobby!

Not my first time at the circus If you have a lot of free time, enjoy the tip of this ice berg:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=242818
https://huperoyaltyjordanedition.wordpress.com/

Problem here is the pump n' dump worked, FAR past expectation lol.

[theLUCKYshow]

I guess I should provide a little more info on /23 but this is off the top of my head so correct me if I'm wrong. Sohrob purchased the /23 as a 9.5 from a reputable dealer before selling it to Bill roughly a year later.

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[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Not my first time at the circus If you have a lot of free time, enjoy the tip of this ice berg:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=242818
https://huperoyaltyjordanedition.wordpress.com/

Problem here is the pump n' dump worked, FAR past expectation lol.

Queen Latifah's daughter

[Ross]

Originally Posted by Chain

Sorry, out of topic.... but wooooowww!!

I thought the pic of the Jordan 97 Masterpieces and Grant Hill Credentials 1/1 would be the best cards pic of the year, then buybuymj drops that Jordan /23 auto hoard. It even has a Wilt Inkredible Level 2 for good measure. Crazy end of the year revelations.

Carry on.

where is the post of this>?

[Onions]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

We checked on Bill Lees cards a while back. His cards are clean.

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Good deal. Glad they checked out. I'm sure he is feeling pretty happy about dodging this mess. Sorry for being redundant, I missed those posts or the thread where they were being discussed.

[jlzinck]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

Despite your thoughts on Rovell as a person, he has the platform to reach millions of people. If you ever want this conversation to transition from name
calling and accusations to pursue some type of legal action if possible, he’s certainly one of the people that can help move the needle. If anything, he can help get the word out to prevent unknowing collectors from making a giant financial mistake. I’d say that’s a massive step in the right direction, and in my opinion, the point of this entire thread.

The odds of that happening are pretty close to zero

[theleica]

Originally Posted by Ross

where is the post of this>?

Earlier in this thread:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1705

1/1 Jordan & Hill Thread:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1258012

Within 1/1 Jordan & Hill Thread thread :

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=118

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=163

[jlzinck]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Not my first time at the circus If you have a lot of free time, enjoy the tip of this ice berg:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=242818


Problem here is the pump n' dump worked, FAR past expectation lol.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooo many banned members in that thread

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

fifthdownsports is 100% involved in this fraud. I still believe that LeBron sale was fraudulent as well if it wasn't he wouldn't have come in here guns blazing calling out everyone who thought it was fake.

This. I think it's very likely it's more than just some trimmed RPAs we're looking at. Below are some quick quotes from the $250K purchase thread.

Originally Posted by the27guy

FYI, I received an email from someone I know and trust who confirmed the sale of the card.

Although I trust this individual, it’s also probably fair to mention that he has a vested interest in the skyrocketing value of high end Lebron James rookies. He did not want his name mentioned, so I will not mention it here. He is a member here too.

Sounds like the card was purchased for $20k, about a decade ago

Originally Posted by the27guy

One other fact worth noting..... that BGS 8.5 that's been sitting on Eric's ebay for a while..... at $100k.

These 2 quotes from Adam on the subject both mention Eric (one not named, one named) in regards to this sale.

Also, Adam makes reference that whoever told him about the sale knew that the card was purchased for $20K about a decade ago (2008-2010). No "verified" sales of the RPA (eBay) are around that price for this card. The card in question was graded in 2012, so then when this card originally changed hands (roughly a decade prior) it is to be assumed that this was a raw card.

Originally Posted by ih8ca

I noticed the 8.5 is now 110k

Originally Posted by rats60

So the guy who has one that isn't selling for 100k is involved with the buyer for 250k and raises his card to 110k. Am I the only one seeing red flags?

Both users above notice that BNC's copy of the card had a 10% price increase based off of the mythical $250K Lebron sale.

Originally Posted by Fifthdownsports

This will be my final comment other than anyone else wants to sell another one contact Eric at Buy Nice Cards he will handle for me. Thought collectors would enjoy this photo with my UD Ultimate Black Label

Fifthdownsports tells the board that if they have one they want to sell to to contact Eric. Why would somebody have to contact Eric to move a Lebron EXQ to this fifthdownsports guy? Hell, FDS "bought" the Lebron being questioned on eBay through some random person (not BNC). Just overall a weird thing to say, because if someone had one they could easily sell it to you without using Eric as a go between.


This whole situation regarding the EXQ Lebron RPAs is just rife with shadiness and lies. It's funny that Eric seems to be in the middle of a lot of the crap surrounding this card over the past few years.

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by Wings

Heres raw and graded 9.5 on Durant Limited Logos, Im not really seeing a difference.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...patch-logos-07

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...s-9-5-10-pop-3

I dont have a good signal now so I can't see it but I posted one with the "T" patch earlier with several other cards o matched up. I didn't find any major differences.

[ballhawkdawk]

If I ever need a private investigator I will be posting an ad in the BST Basketball section. Y’all are some super sleuths.

[Wings]

Originally Posted by Deadshot

I dont have a good signal now so I can't see it but I posted one with the "T" patch earlier with several other cards o matched up. I didn't find any major differences.

Yes that's the one I posted!

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

My honest two cents.


I already tried to register here in the past, one or two times, but it didn't go successfully. This time I entered my eBay user name while waiting for my activation, probably it helped.


The reason I asked 27guy to keep me anonymous was, at first I was not that much interested in entering this topic, more than anything I was not a member here and I had no clue when I could ever be, like said above. And no, english is not my main language. I was not a good student and never learned any english at any professional level but doing countless overseas deals. Still it takes a lot of time to write like this. I didn't even want my name to be discussed here, well, it was more like there's no reason than I didn't want that, as I couldn't input a word here. If somebody says about me or try to refute about that, it only could've been complicated. So I thought it was unnecessary, it was not about testing my braveness. I'm not that #@#@#@#@ while I can do something by myself but asking somebody hey, I'm worried about that, can you do that for me? I'm scared. No.


Still, it was not an easy decision. Remember, it was not just questioning BNC like many other people have been here, it was the smoking gun that one bullet could change the whole thing. Really, it was not an easy decision. Contest? I don't consider BNC as my competitor at all. I'm 100% sure he feels the same. This is not two bread stores in the same street. It's not we're producing same chocolate cake and competing price. I bought a card from 27guy in the past and I sold one of my cards to BNC, also bought a very nice card from him for a very nice price. I don't have any deep relationship with them at all, but it was all positives, nothing negative between. There's zero benefit for me with this #@#@#@#@ but if anything, it only removes my chance to obtain another great card from him. I honestly hope that BNC can come up and prove I'm wrong, or I'm missing something. The sad truth is I'm very good in this evidence game, I'm new to this forum but not new to this hobby, anyone knows about me in my country knows that. Still I firmly believe that more PWCC or more BNC is more good for the hobby, I have that perspective like he said prior, as far as trimming is not envolved.


Well, until I sent those eBay messages to 27guy I didn't know at all that he had some decent relationship with BNC, as I wasn't a regular member here. When I felt that perhaps I found a wrong person was when I read the following post.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=646



It not only showed me their friendly relationship but they were making some funs out of that. You know what, if I was in that position, got informed that my two best treasures in LBJ Exquisite RC /99 were altered instead of being clean BGS 9, plus many people question me like a trimmer, I would get mad as hell. I'd be ready to bury all you guys that suspected me and laughed at that, with evidences. That would be my natural reaction if I was in that position. If you're my friend, you should feel terrible. So still making some funs out of that, to me it looked like they were looking for end of discussion instead of further discussion.


I don't know 27guy that well but I know well about human nature. Why are you guys still looking for him? I mean, I don't know his intention about my eBay messages but now I understand his relationship with BNC. If this was a pure NBA community, not related to money at all, still some old members would make relationships each other and be friends. When your friend is getting attacked, you don't sit well. You want to defend him, if you can, especially when it's reasonable. Now we're in a card community, related to a lot of money, where some deals could make one's feeling better more than you can imagine. If he got some nice deals with BNC and met him in the national with their families and still looking for another one, that MATTERS. If I was in 27guy's position, perhaps I've been acted the same, who knows. It's not impossible, but it would be very hard to turn against BNC suddenly and seeking the truth than your next nice deal. Now you guys expect that hard part from him. Unless 27guy can deny the evidence he has nothing to say but bad things to BNC, it would be very, very hard. It's sad, it hurts. So I totally understand that him getting away from this now.


I have experiences of having countless high ends and I also had owned all these cards, 2003-04 LeBron Exquisite /99 and /23, 1999 Century Legends AU MJ /23 (I will talk about this later), I'm an original owner of the following photo that most of you guys never seen it before. Because it's not my card right now I won't answer on upcoming questions about what the hell is that, all I can say is that it's irrelevant with trimming and sometimes BGS sucks as hell. I'm showing this only because I'm new to this forum and to explain that I got more than enough experiences.



http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/9231/tfIyK1.jpg



So when you own LBJ Exquisite /99, a card of this caliber, it's impossible to forget about its condition. Especially when there's noticeable chippings like that in 87/99. Especially for a guy who has a lot of interest in grading. I still remember overall conditions of LBJ Exquisites I sold more than 10 years ago. That's just human nature. That's why I called it as the smoking gun. Because I know what that means. Just like a member named rookies here still have photos of 74/99 and remembers its original condition when he owned it.


I also noticed that BNC said he bought Sohrob's entire collection in 2014 and those LeBrons were part of them, but from Sohrob's record here, it seems he was still active in collecting. On 2014-02-20, he was collecting 2003-04 Exqusite EoE set and only missing Kobe and Miller.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...93&postcount=1



On 2014-12-30, he was stilling chasing those two and other high end cards, to me that doesn't sound from a guy who sold his entire collection.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...00&postcount=1


Actually me and Sohrob were communicating often, even he offered me some cards on March 2016.


https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2865/SafEqr.png



https://imageshack.com/a/img924/3295/cLsQdY.png



Yes, Sohrob told me he was starting a new business and now he's gone, but it was late 2015 when he said that and started to sell all his cards, that's after LeBron Exquisite 87/99 graded BGS 9. He was offering many cards to me but I didn't hear from him that he had LBJ Exquisite /99 for sale during that period. Just FYI. And BNC said he purchased it as a raw in 2014. My one personal question here, if you mastered trimming and make a ton of money, why would you want to stop that and leave the hobby. If I was in that positon, with the same mindset, I'd try that on all of my EoE cards and others, my store will only get bigger and bigger.



I know the following MJ Legends AU 7/23 is 100% legit to say the least, if you were active in the hobby at the time you must know that eBay seller 23buy23 was by far the best MJ collector on the planet.



https://imageshack.com/a/img924/6571/YtpOd9.jpg




He was not only selling multiple Legends MJ AU /23 but countless other 90's MJ stuffs you can name any, including two MJ PMG Green /10, two 97-98 UD Game Jersey AU /23 (he didn't list the other one on eBay though), 98-99 Metal Gem Masters 1/1, 98-99 SPx Extreme 1/1, on and on and on. How many did he have these cards? Here's part of I bought from him at the time, not all of them but most of them. Of course he had pretty more than I bought from him.


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/4679/iAo3T6.jpg




I heard some guys don't believe that and treat it like playing with printed papers but old Korean collectors know that it's not. Check out 23buy23's feedback if you ever wonder what kind of stuffs he sold at the time.

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...rchInterval=30



To me, the auto of BNC's 7/23 looks a bit lighter than normal. The color of auto and hand number is different. Although I know it's possible in this card. Then being one of iconic cards from 1999 graded BGS 9.5 in June 2018, with same numer of 7/23 that I know the other one is 100% legit.



Look, if it wasn't about LBJ Exquisite 87/99, I don't think people started to question on his other cards as well like this. I know it's very, very hard, but not impossible, to say the truth and live with that. If I was in his position and I'm 100% clean, I'd never allow people try to ruin my reputation like this #@#@#@#@. I ain't talk about my fond memories with forum, I ain't no interested in being a nice guy, I ain't begging no one's sentiment. Only would be interested in talking about the truth, then badly need you guys' sincere apologies. That would be my reaction. Actually I hope BNC can do that.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Fascinating read. You will be a big benefit to the blowout community with your wealth of knowledge and general experience in the hobby. I also hope you continue to share your collection with us.

Btw your English is stellar. If only I could write Korean like that.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[mrdallas]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

This. I think it's very likely it's more than just some trimmed RPAs we're looking at. Below are some quick quotes from the $250K purchase thread.

Both users above notice that BNC's copy of the card had a 10% price increase based off of the mythical $250K Lebron sale.

I guess BNC is now asking $175,000 for an 8.5. Or has this been that price for a while?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/03-04-Lebro...cc9y:rk:3:pf:0