LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged - Page 69

sjay2k · 12-19-2018, 12:47 AM

Onions that seems like a compelling theory to me.

cypher · 12-19-2018, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onions

Purely speculation on my part here, but I think the trimming ended around the time Sohrob left the hobby. The cards currently presented as trimmed or doctored were changing hands/being graded roughly 3-4 years ago.

My theory is that Sohrob doctored cards and likely had the BGS connection to make sure these got into slabs. BNC had the reputation and customer base to move these altered cards after they were doctored. They were partners. BNC could provide records of his purchases and "clear" his name if he wanted to, but that would put the blame squarely on Sohrob. If one goes down, they both do.

I don't have a BGS account, and I don't know if I can search grading records without one, but I would guess that all of the cards in question were graded before Sohrob left. I would also guess that all were graded by the same grader. BGS could take the serial numbers and pin them to a specific grader if they wanted to. However, I believe that this was discovered by BGS at the time and the grader was terminated:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...+fired+graders

No one took this guy very seriously, and maybe for good reason, but it certainly fits the timeframe and what several of us suspect was going on. When the grader got canned, the gravy train derailed. Sohrob sold out and moved on. BNC is still left in the possession of several of the trimmed cards.

I think you nailed it.

pingbling23 · 12-19-2018, 01:46 AM

I just messaged wjciii in hopes he may have knowledge of Sohrob or bnc. Wjciii was involved in the posted fired Beckett graders thread as he used to be a grader. Edit, not a grader. He worked as a grading rep for 7 years and knew all of the graders.

theLUCKYshow · 12-19-2018, 01:56 AM

It seems like the employee was a representative but had nothing to do with grading.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...2&share_type=t

ajw9356:
"So should we put end to some of the rumors, there is an employee that parted ways with BGS. They were not a grader but a representative for the Midwest region, which is most likely where this rumor started since this LCS would be in said employees range. He was my BGS rep. Now I have been dealing most recently with the Director of BGS Grading Services since said departure of employee. I'm sure that will change once a different representative is assigned to our area.
I don't know all the details, not sure if they were fired or left under mutually bad circumstances. I do know he had nothing to do with what grades we recieved.
I still feel grading has always been mostly fairly done with our group. Mistakes happen, but I don't think it's because people are getting paid off for better grades although I'm sure that's been tried before from submitters.
Last the LCS owner as TDTKC pointed out deals almost exclusively with PSA cards and has since PSA started grading cards if I'm not mistaken. He has no reason to promote BGS services as he pretty much stays clear them, however I doubt he was intentionally bashing BGS."

Onions I do think you're onto something with Sohrob and Eric. The biggest mystery to me has been what exactly their working relationship was, and your guess seems possible.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

buybuymj · 12-19-2018, 03:37 AM

My honest two cents.

I already tried to register here in the past, one or two times, but it didn't go successfully. This time I entered my eBay user name while waiting for my activation, probably it helped.

The reason I asked 27guy to keep me anonymous was, at first I was not that much interested in entering this topic, more than anything I was not a member here and I had no clue when I could ever be, like said above. And no, english is not my main language. I was not a good student and never learned any english at any professional level but doing countless overseas deals. Still it takes a lot of time to write like this. I didn't even want my name to be discussed here, well, it was more like there's no reason than I didn't want that, as I couldn't input a word here. If somebody says about me or try to refute about that, it only could've been complicated. So I thought it was unnecessary, it was not about testing my braveness. I'm not that #@#@#@#@ while I can do something by myself but asking somebody hey, I'm worried about that, can you do that for me? I'm scared. No.

Still, it was not an easy decision. Remember, it was not just questioning BNC like many other people have been here, it was the smoking gun that one bullet could change the whole thing. Really, it was not an easy decision. Contest? I don't consider BNC as my competitor at all. I'm 100% sure he feels the same. This is not two bread stores in the same street. It's not we're producing same chocolate cake and competing price. I bought a card from 27guy in the past and I sold one of my cards to BNC, also bought a very nice card from him for a very nice price. I don't have any deep relationship with them at all, but it was all positives, nothing negative between. There's zero benefit for me with this #@#@#@#@ but if anything, it only removes my chance to obtain another great card from him. I honestly hope that BNC can come up and prove I'm wrong, or I'm missing something. The sad truth is I'm very good in this evidence game, I'm new to this forum but not new to this hobby, anyone knows about me in my country knows that. Still I firmly believe that more PWCC or more BNC is more good for the hobby, I have that perspective like he said prior, as far as trimming is not envolved.

Well, until I sent those eBay messages to 27guy I didn't know at all that he had some decent relationship with BNC, as I wasn't a regular member here. When I felt that perhaps I found a wrong person was when I read the following post.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=646

It not only showed me their friendly relationship but they were making some funs out of that. You know what, if I was in that position, got informed that my two best treasures in LBJ Exquisite RC /99 were altered instead of being clean BGS 9, plus many people question me like a trimmer, I would get mad as hell. I'd be ready to bury all you guys that suspected me and laughed at that, with evidences. That would be my natural reaction if I was in that position. If you're my friend, you should feel terrible. So still making some funs out of that, to me it looked like they were looking for end of discussion instead of further discussion.

I don't know 27guy that well but I know well about human nature. Why are you guys still looking for him? I mean, I don't know his intention about my eBay messages but now I understand his relationship with BNC. If this was a pure NBA community, not related to money at all, still some old members would make relationships each other and be friends. When your friend is getting attacked, you don't sit well. You want to defend him, if you can, especially when it's reasonable. Now we're in a card community, related to a lot of money, where some deals could make one's feeling better more than you can imagine. If he got some nice deals with BNC and met him in the national with their families and still looking for another one, that MATTERS. If I was in 27guy's position, perhaps I've been acted the same, who knows. It's not impossible, but it would be very hard to turn against BNC suddenly and seeking the truth than your next nice deal. Now you guys expect that hard part from him. Unless 27guy can deny the evidence he has nothing to say but bad things to BNC, it would be very, very hard. It's sad, it hurts. So I totally understand that him getting away from this now.

I have experiences of having countless high ends and I also had owned all these cards, 2003-04 LeBron Exquisite /99 and /23, 1999 Century Legends AU MJ /23 (I will talk about this later), I'm an original owner of the following photo that most of you guys never seen it before. Because it's not my card right now I won't answer on upcoming questions about what the hell is that, all I can say is that it's irrelevant with trimming and sometimes BGS sucks as hell. I'm showing this only because I'm new to this forum and to explain that I got more than enough experiences.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/9231/tfIyK1.jpg

So when you own LBJ Exquisite /99, a card of this caliber, it's impossible to forget about its condition. Especially when there's noticeable chippings like that in 87/99. Especially for a guy who has a lot of interest in grading. I still remember overall conditions of LBJ Exquisites I sold more than 10 years ago. That's just human nature. That's why I called it as the smoking gun. Because I know what that means. Just like a member named rookies here still have photos of 74/99 and remembers its original condition when he owned it.

I also noticed that BNC said he bought Sohrob's entire collection in 2014 and those LeBrons were part of them, but from Sohrob's record here, it seems he was still active in collecting. On 2014-02-20, he was collecting 2003-04 Exqusite EoE set and only missing Kobe and Miller.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...93&postcount=1

On 2014-12-30, he was stilling chasing those two and other high end cards, to me that doesn't sound from a guy who sold his entire collection.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...00&postcount=1

Actually me and Sohrob were communicating often, even he offered me some cards on March 2016.

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2865/SafEqr.png

https://imageshack.com/a/img924/3295/cLsQdY.png

Yes, Sohrob told me he was starting a new business and now he's gone, but it was late 2015 when he said that and started to sell all his cards, that's after LeBron Exquisite 87/99 graded BGS 9. He was offering many cards to me but I didn't hear from him that he had LBJ Exquisite /99 for sale during that period. Just FYI. And BNC said he purchased it as a raw in 2014. My one personal question here, if you mastered trimming and make a ton of money, why would you want to stop that and leave the hobby. If I was in that positon, with the same mindset, I'd try that on all of my EoE cards and others, my store will only get bigger and bigger.

I know the following MJ Legends AU 7/23 is 100% legit to say the least, if you were active in the hobby at the time you must know that eBay seller 23buy23 was by far the best MJ collector on the planet.

https://imageshack.com/a/img924/6571/YtpOd9.jpg

He was not only selling multiple Legends MJ AU /23 but countless other 90's MJ stuffs you can name any, including two MJ PMG Green /10, two 97-98 UD Game Jersey AU /23 (he didn't list the other one on eBay though), 98-99 Metal Gem Masters 1/1, 98-99 SPx Extreme 1/1, on and on and on. How many did he have these cards? Here's part of I bought from him at the time, not all of them but most of them. Of course he had pretty more than I bought from him.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/4679/iAo3T6.jpg

I heard some guys don't believe that and treat it like playing with printed papers but old Korean collectors know that it's not. Check out 23buy23's feedback if you ever wonder what kind of stuffs he sold at the time.

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...rchInterval=30

To me, the auto of BNC's 7/23 looks a bit lighter than normal. The color of auto and hand number is different. Although I know it's possible in this card. Then being one of iconic cards from 1999 graded BGS 9.5 in June 2018, with same numer of 7/23 that I know the other one is 100% legit.

Look, if it wasn't about LBJ Exquisite 87/99, I don't think people started to question on his other cards as well like this. I know it's very, very hard, but not impossible, to say the truth and live with that. If I was in his position and I'm 100% clean, I'd never allow people try to ruin my reputation like this #@#@#@#@. I ain't talk about my fond memories with forum, I ain't no interested in being a nice guy, I ain't begging no one's sentiment. Only would be interested in talking about the truth, then badly need you guys' sincere apologies. That would be my reaction. Actually I hope BNC can do that.

sjay2k · 12-19-2018, 03:49 AM

Mic drop

ninjacookies · 12-19-2018, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buybuymj

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/9231/tfIyK1.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/4679/iAo3T6.jpg

I'll get to the rest of the post in a bit. But....

ninjacookies · 12-19-2018, 04:29 AM

I'm sorry, my head is still spinning from all that mind-blowing pixel porn that was just posted.

I will, however, say that it's almost %100 certain that BNC's copy of that Jordan card is an absolute forgery, and your friends' card is 100% the right version. I'm not sure if anyone else contended otherwise, but it's glaringly obvious.

You can clearly see in BNC's forged version that the 'M' and the rest of his first name are written in 2 completely separate hand strokes (disjointed). MJ never writes his signature like that. It's a total forgery, and a bad one at that.

Thank you for chiming in, buybuy. Your English is actually very good, and arguably better than a lot of the native speaking people on this board. I hope you can stick around and continue to contribute to not only this discussion, but the forum in general. You seem like an extremely knowledgeable individual with an insane collection.

Thank you for dropping the loaded gun and helping to expose this fraudulent behavior. This is felony level criminal activity and should be treated as such.

pingbling23 · 12-19-2018, 04:41 AM

Do your thing buybuymj. Welcome back and as ninja was saying, I hope you stick around.

buybuymj · 12-19-2018, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I'm sorry, my head is still spinning from all that mind-blowing pixel porn that was just posted.

I will, however, say that it's almost %100 certain that BNC's copy of that Jordan card is an absolute forgery, and your friends' card is 100% the right version. I'm not sure if anyone else contended otherwise, but it's glaringly obvious.

You can clearly see in BNC's forged version that the 'M' and the rest of his first name are written in 2 completely separate hand strokes (disjointed). MJ never writes his signature like that. It's a total forgery, and a bad one at that.

Thank you for chiming in, buybuy. Your English is actually very good, and arguably better than a lot of the native speaking people on this board. I hope you can stick around and continue to contribute to not only this discussion, but the forum in general. You seem like an extremely knowledgeable individual with an insane collection.

Thank you for dropping the loaded gun and helping to expose this fraudulent behavior. This is felony level criminal activity and should be treated as such.

I'm also saying that one 7/23 sold in 2007 is 100% legit, not BNC's. However there was actually another one that has very similar looking auto to BNC's:

https://imageshack.com/a/img924/5448/o8SsZD.jpg

WHyFLy · 12-19-2018, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buybuymj

I'm also saying that one 7/23 sold in 2007 is 100% legit, not BNC's. However there was actually another one that has very similar looking auto to BNC's:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/7061/vYaVcX.jpg

But isn’t this set one of the most iconic and forged sets out there? The disjointed M completely goes against MJ’s typical signature and it’s not like these signatures were one of his early signatures in his career...

ninjacookies · 12-19-2018, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buybuymj

I'm also saying that one 7/23 sold in 2007 is 100% legit, not BNC's. However there was actually another one that has very similar looking auto to BNC's:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/7061/vYaVcX.jpg

That picture is a bit too small for me to really tell.

But it does seem like the 'M' and icheal are 2 separate pen strokes?

I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I'm some sort of MJ expert. You obviously know way more than me.

But I've never seen MJ sign like this. Maybe he has, but I've never seen it before.

The M and ichael are always one continuous stroke with a loop at the bottom of the M.

Weird.

pingbling23 · 12-19-2018, 04:52 AM

Is the bnc 7/23 and the 16/23 the same auto? Maybe someone changed the numbers or the card is faked and they are using auto pen to forge Jordan’s sig?

buybuymj · 12-19-2018, 04:54 AM

I'd say it's one of the most iconic sets but not one of the most well-known forged sets.

Similar one here from the same year's Retro.

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9886/QUeCWL.jpg

ninjacookies · 12-19-2018, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buybuymj

I'd say it's one of the most iconic sets but not one of the most well-known forged sets.

Similar one here from the same year's Retro.

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9886/QUeCWL.jpg

There you go.

I also found similar in one of his recent collegiate sets:

Kind of weird. Almost seems like his hand 'lifted' when writing the M and ichael, or the pen skipped.

Thanks for the explanation, buybuy.

WHyFLy · 12-19-2018, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buybuymj

I'd say it's one of the most iconic sets but not one of the most well-known forged sets.

Similar one here from the same year's Retro.

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9886/QUeCWL.jpg

I see but don’t you see how minimal the gap is between the two strokes compared to BNC copy? Even the 2007 seems a lot smaller gap. I’m not an expert but the light color and that gap makes that auto very fishy imo.

pingbling23 · 12-19-2018, 05:00 AM

Checked worthpoint, half of the century legends autos have the lift after the M.

buybuymj · 12-19-2018, 05:15 AM

IF it was altered, my assumption is someone bought a card like this and was able to remove faded auto, then had a photo of a card like 16/23 as they look very similar, and signed it. But when I don't have evidence, I really can't tell.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/5755/E3X0Gs.png

Raj3sh · 12-19-2018, 05:40 AM

@buybuymj

since you are here, can you please shed some light on these 2 fellows also.

"So to sum up, I seen two very, very, very, very reputable persons that people thinking they're really good, but I guess I seen their dark sides."

Since we all care about the hobby, it is wise to know them and not engage in any future hobby business with them.

corndog · 12-19-2018, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buybuymj

IF it was altered, my assumption is someone bought a card like this and was able to remove faded auto, then had a photo of a card like 16/23 as they look very similar, and signed it. But when I don't have evidence, I really can't tell.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/5755/E3X0Gs.png

If the faded signature was removed it would have had to be done with chemicals. Even though the signature would be gone, the chemicals would affect the sheen of the substrate (surface). It would be subtle, but noticeable if looked at with good lighting and a magnifying loupe.

I would look for print dot variation using an original as a source. It doesn't have to be a Jordan to see the dot patterns. Tom Brady rookie contenders were counterfeited this way (reprint). It is virtually impossible to exactly reprint an image without having the original file or printing plates.

buybuymj · 12-19-2018, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raj3sh

@buybuymj

since you are here, can you please shed some light on these 2 fellows also.

"So to sum up, I seen two very, very, very, very reputable persons that people thinking they're really good, but I guess I seen their dark sides."

Since we all care about the hobby, it is wise to know them and not engage in any future hobby business with them.

One is BNC for sure, as I found it out with evidence, the other one is sorry, I won't reveal. It was just one message years ago, after he tried to buy some stuffs from me and failed, he cursed me like that, but I'm not living in the past, one message with cursing me years ago is not that big of a deal to reveal his name to public forum and tell you guys like "Hey you know what, you know what, this well-known guy cursed me like this before despite of I didn't nothing to him. Blame him for me!" ... It would make me look like a crying baby. If it happened in my country it definitely would work but I know he has much more followers than me, more than anything he lives in the states and I'm from South Korea. He's irrelevant with trimming or like that, no big deal, no worries.

mglevy125 · 12-19-2018, 06:12 AM

I just heard back from Darren Rovell. I briefly explained the situation and sent him a link to this forum. He said he’d look into it.

jlzinck · 12-19-2018, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mglevy125

I just heard back from Darren Rovell. I briefly explained the situation and sent him a link to this forum. He said he’d look into it.

Oh yay another a$$hat with an inflated self worth will maybe get involved.

What a disgusting incestuous circle jerk this has become.

Nobody is clean and they will just go away and continue to rip people off.

August2308 · 12-19-2018, 06:46 AM

just got these from a friend, i dont know the story behind these cards, quite shocking there are multiple double mj auto.

, di Flickr

KhalDrogo · 12-19-2018, 06:58 AM

buybuymj delivers! We appreciate your time and effort in this. Terrific stuff you have or have had also. Wouldn't mind seeing more

Quote:

Originally Posted by arashY

His comment on his Instagram account makes it seem like he is done with this thread and/or forum.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BriJlFsh...d=393pmu0dvtj8

Wow. What a victory. He'll be back though.

12-19-2018, 01:46 AM	#1703
pingbling23 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 16,049	I just messaged wjciii in hopes he may have knowledge of Sohrob or bnc. Wjciii was involved in the posted fired Beckett graders thread as he used to be a grader. Edit, not a grader. He worked as a grading rep for 7 years and knew all of the graders. Last edited by pingbling23; 12-19-2018 at 02:15 AM.

12-19-2018, 01:56 AM	#1704
theLUCKYshow Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 5,455 theluckshow	It seems like the employee was a representative but had nothing to do with grading. https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...2&share_type=t ajw9356: "So should we put end to some of the rumors, there is an employee that parted ways with BGS. They were not a grader but a representative for the Midwest region, which is most likely where this rumor started since this LCS would be in said employees range. He was my BGS rep. Now I have been dealing most recently with the Director of BGS Grading Services since said departure of employee. I'm sure that will change once a different representative is assigned to our area. I don't know all the details, not sure if they were fired or left under mutually bad circumstances. I do know he had nothing to do with what grades we recieved. I still feel grading has always been mostly fairly done with our group. Mistakes happen, but I don't think it's because people are getting paid off for better grades although I'm sure that's been tried before from submitters. Last the LCS owner as TDTKC pointed out deals almost exclusively with PSA cards and has since PSA started grading cards if I'm not mistaken. He has no reason to promote BGS services as he pretty much stays clear them, however I doubt he was intentionally bashing BGS." Onions I do think you're onto something with Sohrob and Eric. The biggest mystery to me has been what exactly their working relationship was, and your guess seems possible. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk __________________ Always looking for high end Harry Giles AKA the Future Last edited by theLUCKYshow; 12-19-2018 at 02:10 AM.

12-19-2018, 03:37 AM	#1705
buybuymj Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: South Korea Posts: 52 buybuymj	My honest two cents. I already tried to register here in the past, one or two times, but it didn't go successfully. This time I entered my eBay user name while waiting for my activation, probably it helped. The reason I asked 27guy to keep me anonymous was, at first I was not that much interested in entering this topic, more than anything I was not a member here and I had no clue when I could ever be, like said above. And no, english is not my main language. I was not a good student and never learned any english at any professional level but doing countless overseas deals. Still it takes a lot of time to write like this. I didn't even want my name to be discussed here, well, it was more like there's no reason than I didn't want that, as I couldn't input a word here. If somebody says about me or try to refute about that, it only could've been complicated. So I thought it was unnecessary, it was not about testing my braveness. I'm not that #@#@#@#@ while I can do something by myself but asking somebody hey, I'm worried about that, can you do that for me? I'm scared. No. Still, it was not an easy decision. Remember, it was not just questioning BNC like many other people have been here, it was the smoking gun that one bullet could change the whole thing. Really, it was not an easy decision. Contest? I don't consider BNC as my competitor at all. I'm 100% sure he feels the same. This is not two bread stores in the same street. It's not we're producing same chocolate cake and competing price. I bought a card from 27guy in the past and I sold one of my cards to BNC, also bought a very nice card from him for a very nice price. I don't have any deep relationship with them at all, but it was all positives, nothing negative between. There's zero benefit for me with this #@#@#@#@ but if anything, it only removes my chance to obtain another great card from him. I honestly hope that BNC can come up and prove I'm wrong, or I'm missing something. The sad truth is I'm very good in this evidence game, I'm new to this forum but not new to this hobby, anyone knows about me in my country knows that. Still I firmly believe that more PWCC or more BNC is more good for the hobby, I have that perspective like he said prior, as far as trimming is not envolved. Well, until I sent those eBay messages to 27guy I didn't know at all that he had some decent relationship with BNC, as I wasn't a regular member here. When I felt that perhaps I found a wrong person was when I read the following post. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=646 It not only showed me their friendly relationship but they were making some funs out of that. You know what, if I was in that position, got informed that my two best treasures in LBJ Exquisite RC /99 were altered instead of being clean BGS 9, plus many people question me like a trimmer, I would get mad as hell. I'd be ready to bury all you guys that suspected me and laughed at that, with evidences. That would be my natural reaction if I was in that position. If you're my friend, you should feel terrible. So still making some funs out of that, to me it looked like they were looking for end of discussion instead of further discussion. I don't know 27guy that well but I know well about human nature. Why are you guys still looking for him? I mean, I don't know his intention about my eBay messages but now I understand his relationship with BNC. If this was a pure NBA community, not related to money at all, still some old members would make relationships each other and be friends. When your friend is getting attacked, you don't sit well. You want to defend him, if you can, especially when it's reasonable. Now we're in a card community, related to a lot of money, where some deals could make one's feeling better more than you can imagine. If he got some nice deals with BNC and met him in the national with their families and still looking for another one, that MATTERS. If I was in 27guy's position, perhaps I've been acted the same, who knows. It's not impossible, but it would be very hard to turn against BNC suddenly and seeking the truth than your next nice deal. Now you guys expect that hard part from him. Unless 27guy can deny the evidence he has nothing to say but bad things to BNC, it would be very, very hard. It's sad, it hurts. So I totally understand that him getting away from this now. I have experiences of having countless high ends and I also had owned all these cards, 2003-04 LeBron Exquisite /99 and /23, 1999 Century Legends AU MJ /23 (I will talk about this later), I'm an original owner of the following photo that most of you guys never seen it before. Because it's not my card right now I won't answer on upcoming questions about what the hell is that, all I can say is that it's irrelevant with trimming and sometimes BGS sucks as hell. I'm showing this only because I'm new to this forum and to explain that I got more than enough experiences. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/9231/tfIyK1.jpg So when you own LBJ Exquisite /99, a card of this caliber, it's impossible to forget about its condition. Especially when there's noticeable chippings like that in 87/99. Especially for a guy who has a lot of interest in grading. I still remember overall conditions of LBJ Exquisites I sold more than 10 years ago. That's just human nature. That's why I called it as the smoking gun. Because I know what that means. Just like a member named rookies here still have photos of 74/99 and remembers its original condition when he owned it. I also noticed that BNC said he bought Sohrob's entire collection in 2014 and those LeBrons were part of them, but from Sohrob's record here, it seems he was still active in collecting. On 2014-02-20, he was collecting 2003-04 Exqusite EoE set and only missing Kobe and Miller. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...93&postcount=1 On 2014-12-30, he was stilling chasing those two and other high end cards, to me that doesn't sound from a guy who sold his entire collection. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...00&postcount=1 Actually me and Sohrob were communicating often, even he offered me some cards on March 2016. https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2865/SafEqr.png https://imageshack.com/a/img924/3295/cLsQdY.png Yes, Sohrob told me he was starting a new business and now he's gone, but it was late 2015 when he said that and started to sell all his cards, that's after LeBron Exquisite 87/99 graded BGS 9. He was offering many cards to me but I didn't hear from him that he had LBJ Exquisite /99 for sale during that period. Just FYI. And BNC said he purchased it as a raw in 2014. My one personal question here, if you mastered trimming and make a ton of money, why would you want to stop that and leave the hobby. If I was in that positon, with the same mindset, I'd try that on all of my EoE cards and others, my store will only get bigger and bigger. I know the following MJ Legends AU 7/23 is 100% legit to say the least, if you were active in the hobby at the time you must know that eBay seller 23buy23 was by far the best MJ collector on the planet. https://imageshack.com/a/img924/6571/YtpOd9.jpg He was not only selling multiple Legends MJ AU /23 but countless other 90's MJ stuffs you can name any, including two MJ PMG Green /10, two 97-98 UD Game Jersey AU /23 (he didn't list the other one on eBay though), 98-99 Metal Gem Masters 1/1, 98-99 SPx Extreme 1/1, on and on and on. How many did he have these cards? Here's part of I bought from him at the time, not all of them but most of them. Of course he had pretty more than I bought from him. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/4679/iAo3T6.jpg I heard some guys don't believe that and treat it like playing with printed papers but old Korean collectors know that it's not. Check out 23buy23's feedback if you ever wonder what kind of stuffs he sold at the time. https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...rchInterval=30 To me, the auto of BNC's 7/23 looks a bit lighter than normal. The color of auto and hand number is different. Although I know it's possible in this card. Then being one of iconic cards from 1999 graded BGS 9.5 in June 2018, with same numer of 7/23 that I know the other one is 100% legit. Look, if it wasn't about LBJ Exquisite 87/99, I don't think people started to question on his other cards as well like this. I know it's very, very hard, but not impossible, to say the truth and live with that. If I was in his position and I'm 100% clean, I'd never allow people try to ruin my reputation like this #@#@#@#@. I ain't talk about my fond memories with forum, I ain't no interested in being a nice guy, I ain't begging no one's sentiment. Only would be interested in talking about the truth, then badly need you guys' sincere apologies. That would be my reaction. Actually I hope BNC can do that. Last edited by buybuymj; 12-19-2018 at 04:33 AM.

12-19-2018, 05:40 AM	#1719
Raj3sh Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 1,166	@buybuymj since you are here, can you please shed some light on these 2 fellows also. "So to sum up, I seen two very, very, very, very reputable persons that people thinking they're really good, but I guess I seen their dark sides." Since we all care about the hobby, it is wise to know them and not engage in any future hobby business with them. __________________ https://www.instagram.com/manchesterunitedcards/

12-19-2018, 06:46 AM	#1724
August2308 Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 554	just got these from a friend, i dont know the story behind these cards, quite shocking there are multiple double mj auto. , di Flickr , di Flickr , di Flickr

12-19-2018, 12:47 AM	#1701
sjay2k Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 455	Onions that seems like a compelling theory to me.

12-19-2018, 03:49 AM	#1706
sjay2k Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 455	Mic drop

12-19-2018, 04:29 AM	#1708
ninjacookies Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi). Posts: 57,329	I'm sorry, my head is still spinning from all that mind-blowing pixel porn that was just posted. I will, however, say that it's almost %100 certain that BNC's copy of that Jordan card is an absolute forgery, and your friends' card is 100% the right version. I'm not sure if anyone else contended otherwise, but it's glaringly obvious. You can clearly see in BNC's forged version that the 'M' and the rest of his first name are written in 2 completely separate hand strokes (disjointed). MJ never writes his signature like that. It's a total forgery, and a bad one at that. Thank you for chiming in, buybuy. Your English is actually very good, and arguably better than a lot of the native speaking people on this board. I hope you can stick around and continue to contribute to not only this discussion, but the forum in general. You seem like an extremely knowledgeable individual with an insane collection. Thank you for dropping the loaded gun and helping to expose this fraudulent behavior. This is felony level criminal activity and should be treated as such.

12-19-2018, 04:41 AM	#1709
pingbling23 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 16,049	Do your thing buybuymj. Welcome back and as ninja was saying, I hope you stick around.

12-19-2018, 04:52 AM	#1713
pingbling23 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 16,049	Is the bnc 7/23 and the 16/23 the same auto? Maybe someone changed the numbers or the card is faked and they are using auto pen to forge Jordan’s sig?

12-19-2018, 04:54 AM	#1714
buybuymj Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: South Korea Posts: 52 buybuymj	I'd say it's one of the most iconic sets but not one of the most well-known forged sets. Similar one here from the same year's Retro. https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9886/QUeCWL.jpg

12-19-2018, 05:00 AM	#1717
pingbling23 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 16,049	Checked worthpoint, half of the century legends autos have the lift after the M.

12-19-2018, 05:15 AM	#1718
buybuymj Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: South Korea Posts: 52 buybuymj	IF it was altered, my assumption is someone bought a card like this and was able to remove faded auto, then had a photo of a card like 16/23 as they look very similar, and signed it. But when I don't have evidence, I really can't tell. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/5755/E3X0Gs.png

12-19-2018, 06:12 AM	#1722
mglevy125 Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 1,363	I just heard back from Darren Rovell. I briefly explained the situation and sent him a link to this forum. He said he’d look into it.