What is the story on this Kobe Pmg?

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 03:50 AM

https://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Kobe-...4956%7Ciid%3A1

The thing that I find interesting is the way it’s graded. Why is it graded as just a “trading card”? I’ve seen psa do this in the past with fake cards with real autographs. For example, I’ve seen several replica Bill Russell Rookies that I’ve been signed by Bill, then graded as “trading card” by psa dna.

But I find it very hard to believe that the pmg is not an original card.....

Anyways. If anyone can fill me in, that’d be swell.

Adam

UltimateDeron · 12-13-2018, 04:00 AM

From what I found out from my buddy that does PSA group subs...

They put "Trading card" on the label when you select the cheapest PSA/DNA service. I had a Garnett SP Rookie Auto'd and Harden Topps McDonald's RC Auto'd authenticated and both came back with "Trading Card" on the label. They were both authentic cards though.

If you want PSA to describe the card on the label it'll cost you more. Then, if you want the label to be red around the border it costs even more.

I had this Jordan PSA/DNA authenticated and the auto graded and it cost me $150 if I remember right.

Jordan SP Sample Auto UDA by Rick Shinn, on Flickr

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 04:09 AM

Thanks rick.

I knew about the red label thing. Man. That is confusing. So “trading card” can mean fake card or real card graded by someone who chose the cheapest level.

Makes you wonder if the person who graded this didn’t know what they were doing or wanted to hide something - the card being altered for example.

exoticprince · 12-13-2018, 04:23 AM

I know you can elect the service you want ie to authenticate/grade the card itself or authenticate/grade the auto only or both. Each has a different price. But for high value cards where fakes have been discovered, if someone chooses not to even authenticate the card itself I wouldn’t touch them imho

UltimateDeron · 12-13-2018, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the27guy

Thanks rick.

I knew about the red label thing. Man. That is confusing. So “trading card” can mean fake card or real card graded by someone who chose the cheapest level.

Makes you wonder if the person who graded this didn’t know what they were doing or wanted to hide something - the card being altered for example.

Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that.

As you can see from these two examples, on one PSA labeled it as "Trading Card" yet the seller mentions it is a Reprint.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTHENTIC-C...p2047675.l2557

Then you have this Bird, Magic, Dr. J Rookie that is labeled "Reprint Card"..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Topps-...p2047675.l2557

Then we have a clear reprint of the same card, but it is only labeled as "Card"..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Topps-....c100011.m1850

Very confusing and misleading unless the seller is honest, such as with the Oscar.

JMarchand1981 · 12-13-2018, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateDeron

From what I found out from my buddy that does PSA group subs...

They put "Trading card" on the label when you select the cheapest PSA/DNA service. I had a Garnett SP Rookie Auto'd and Harden Topps McDonald's RC Auto'd authenticated and both came back with "Trading Card" on the label. They were both authentic cards though.

If you want PSA to describe the card on the label it'll cost you more. Then, if you want the label to be red around the border it costs even more.

I had this Jordan PSA/DNA authenticated and the auto graded and it cost me $150 if I remember right.

Jordan SP Sample Auto UDA by Rick Shinn, on Flickr

Wow. This Jordan is a great looking card.

Edit: sorry, I know it's off topic,

KhalDrogo · 12-13-2018, 06:39 AM

This card came up probably 6-12 months back. I can't find the thread though.

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 09:38 AM

Rick, yes! That’s where I am on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This card came up probably 6-12 months back. I can't find the thread though.

Me too. I also tried to find it but couldn’t. I may have even known them what the story was, but I couldn’t remember for the life of me.

Jasondr91 · 12-13-2018, 09:41 AM

The COA shows the card manufactured by skybox as a PMG. It’s an odd one, but I think this is a real red PMG that someone had Kobe sign, many years ago during the “Kobe 8” days.

weigel618 · 12-13-2018, 09:46 AM

I messaged the guy the day he listed asking basically the same question. Is it a real pack pulled card? He said that it is and he is well aware of how valuable the card is. He told me that the last one did 13k. Not sure why someone wouldn't get the card graded along with the auto though? I would have if it was me.

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weigel618

He told me that the last one did 13k. Not sure why someone wouldn't get the card graded along with the auto though? I would have if it was me.

If it’s unaltered, it’s a no brainer to grade it again. Even if the auto is deemed to be unverifiable.

It’s been in that psa case a long time based on the style of the case. (Side note) - man, why doesn’t psa provide a grading date?

DajuanWagner · 12-13-2018, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the27guy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Kobe-...4956%7Ciid%3A1

The thing that I find interesting is the way it’s graded. Why is it graded as just a “trading card”? I’ve seen psa do this in the past with fake cards with real autographs. For example, I’ve seen several replica Bill Russell Rookies that I’ve been signed by Bill, then graded as “trading card” by psa dna.

But I find it very hard to believe that the pmg is not an original card.....

Anyways. If anyone can fill me in, that’d be swell.

Adam

Appears to be trimmed...……..

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DajuanWagner

Appears to be trimmed...……..

Thanks Randy.

I opened a window and checked it side to side with a picture that I found of another one. I believe you might be right.... care to share how you're determining that?

DajuanWagner · 12-13-2018, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the27guy

Thanks Randy.

I opened a window and checked it side to side with a picture that I found of another one. I believe you might be right.... care to share how you're determining that?

Looks too perfect on the right side. I say, "if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then chances are, it's a duck". Most things that look too good to be true, usually are...…….

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DajuanWagner

Looks too perfect on the right side. I say, "if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then chances are, it's a duck". Most things that look too good to be true, usually are...…….

The right side on the front looks trimmed to me too.

This is what I did -

Look at the ball. Then, open up another window and image search 1997 Kobe precious gems. It looks to me like the card in question shows less of the ball than any others. Pay attention to the lines on the ball especially.

Also look at the back borders. I think it's a hair small left to right.

And I think that's why it's not been taken out of the current case its in. At least, that's my theory.

pinguino17 · 12-13-2018, 01:21 PM

Adding to the thread. I can too not verify that the card is authentic or altered but only that the autograph PSA/dna service was submitted and deemed authentic. They thus do not label the specifics of the card, just list it as trading card. You’re only bidding for a guarantee on the autograph, nothing else.

gslayton · 12-13-2018, 01:26 PM

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1151168

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslayton

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1151168

Walk me through this one Grant.....

I see from your link that the 60/100 was listed in 2017 and UNautographed.

Now, I see the 60/100 listed, graded by PSA and in an old case.

Two different cards? What?

gslayton · 12-13-2018, 01:49 PM

Just one card. Guy bought the 60/100 then had it signed. Ruined the card.

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslayton

Just one card. Guy bought the 60/100 then had it signed. Ruined the card.

But then why is the case old? Maybe PSA still uses those old cases for PSA /DNA stuff?

smsportscards · 12-13-2018, 02:07 PM

If this is the same card as the 60/100 from the old thread that was not in a PSA/NDA case, then its definitely been trimmed. The line on the ball on the Auto'd one is right at the edge of the card and in the old listing there is more ball before you get to the edge.

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 02:17 PM

I think the two are different cards. ON the front, look at the bottom right of the Metal Universe Logo. On the autographed version, just to the right of the L in Metal you can see a white vertical line that is not on the unautographed one. These issues aroung the logo are common and often distinct amongst cards from the set. Take a close look.

Somebody tell me I'm crazy. I think they're two different cards - which wouldn't be shocking. We know that there are two 23/100 MJ's out there. I've always been of the belief that one of the two was an after-production numbering job. This could be a similar situation. Unless I'm wrong and the two really are the same card.

So, to summarize why I don't think the two are the same card.

1. The autograph is in an old PSA case.
2. The issues around the Metal logo on front are not identical.

theLUCKYshow · 12-13-2018, 03:39 PM

I dont think the case is old. The PSA letter of authenticity shows the date as January 18, 2018. The last post on BO for the 60/100 was October, 2017. It makes the most sense that they're the same card.

Edit: Wait that letter is from JSA. Now I'm confused.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

the27guy · 12-13-2018, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I dont think the case is old. The PSA letter of authenticity shows the date as January 18, 2018. The last post on BO for the 60/100 was October, 2017. It makes the most sense that they're the same card.

Edit: Wait that letter is from JSA. Now I'm confused.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

But psa stopped using those cases a long time ago, right? With no serial number on the flip?

theLUCKYshow · 12-13-2018, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the27guy

But psa stopped using those cases a long time ago, right? With no serial number on the flip?

This is a 2017 baseball card so they must still be using them.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

12-13-2018, 03:50 AM	#1
the27guy Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 14,671 the27guy the27guy	What is the story on this Kobe Pmg? https://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Kobe-...4956%7Ciid%3A1 The thing that I find interesting is the way it’s graded. Why is it graded as just a “trading card”? I’ve seen psa do this in the past with fake cards with real autographs. For example, I’ve seen several replica Bill Russell Rookies that I’ve been signed by Bill, then graded as “trading card” by psa dna. But I find it very hard to believe that the pmg is not an original card..... Anyways. If anyone can fill me in, that’d be swell. Adam __________________ @thereal27guy Founder of Basketball Card Fanatic Magazine

12-13-2018, 04:00 AM	#2
UltimateDeron Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 9,924	From what I found out from my buddy that does PSA group subs... They put "Trading card" on the label when you select the cheapest PSA/DNA service. I had a Garnett SP Rookie Auto'd and Harden Topps McDonald's RC Auto'd authenticated and both came back with "Trading Card" on the label. They were both authentic cards though. If you want PSA to describe the card on the label it'll cost you more. Then, if you want the label to be red around the border it costs even more. I had this Jordan PSA/DNA authenticated and the auto graded and it cost me $150 if I remember right. Jordan SP Sample Auto UDA by Rick Shinn, on Flickr __________________ Collection: https://www.flickr.com/photos/150426280@N07/ Instagram: @gem.city.sportscards

12-13-2018, 04:09 AM	#3
the27guy Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 14,671 the27guy the27guy	Thanks rick. I knew about the red label thing. Man. That is confusing. So “trading card” can mean fake card or real card graded by someone who chose the cheapest level. Makes you wonder if the person who graded this didn’t know what they were doing or wanted to hide something - the card being altered for example. __________________ @thereal27guy Founder of Basketball Card Fanatic Magazine

12-13-2018, 09:41 AM	#9
Jasondr91 Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Behind the Pokemon cards at WalMart Posts: 4,549 Jasondr91	The COA shows the card manufactured by skybox as a PMG. It’s an odd one, but I think this is a real red PMG that someone had Kobe sign, many years ago during the “Kobe 8” days. __________________ Still collecting certain Aleksandaя "Sasha" Pavlovic items since 2004. "The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

12-13-2018, 09:46 AM	#10
weigel618 Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 1,315 weigel618	I messaged the guy the day he listed asking basically the same question. Is it a real pack pulled card? He said that it is and he is well aware of how valuable the card is. He told me that the last one did 13k. Not sure why someone wouldn't get the card graded along with the auto though? I would have if it was me. __________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138190813@N07/

12-13-2018, 04:23 AM	#4
exoticprince Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 3,309	I know you can elect the service you want ie to authenticate/grade the card itself or authenticate/grade the auto only or both. Each has a different price. But for high value cards where fakes have been discovered, if someone chooses not to even authenticate the card itself I wouldn’t touch them imho

12-13-2018, 06:39 AM	#7
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,076	This card came up probably 6-12 months back. I can't find the thread though.

12-13-2018, 01:21 PM	#16
pinguino17 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 263	Adding to the thread. I can too not verify that the card is authentic or altered but only that the autograph PSA/dna service was submitted and deemed authentic. They thus do not label the specifics of the card, just list it as trading card. You’re only bidding for a guarantee on the autograph, nothing else.

12-13-2018, 01:26 PM	#17
gslayton Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Wisconsin Dells Posts: 1,874	https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1151168 __________________ IG : waldorfstories

12-13-2018, 01:49 PM	#19
gslayton Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Wisconsin Dells Posts: 1,874	Just one card. Guy bought the 60/100 then had it signed. Ruined the card. __________________ IG : waldorfstories

12-13-2018, 02:07 PM	#21
smsportscards Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 489 sms-sportscards smsportscards	If this is the same card as the 60/100 from the old thread that was not in a PSA/NDA case, then its definitely been trimmed. The line on the ball on the Auto'd one is right at the edge of the card and in the old listing there is more ball before you get to the edge. __________________ GO NOLES!! GO HORNS!! GO MAVS!! GO RANGERS!!

12-13-2018, 02:17 PM	#22
the27guy Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 14,671 the27guy the27guy	I think the two are different cards. ON the front, look at the bottom right of the Metal Universe Logo. On the autographed version, just to the right of the L in Metal you can see a white vertical line that is not on the unautographed one. These issues aroung the logo are common and often distinct amongst cards from the set. Take a close look. Somebody tell me I'm crazy. I think they're two different cards - which wouldn't be shocking. We know that there are two 23/100 MJ's out there. I've always been of the belief that one of the two was an after-production numbering job. This could be a similar situation. Unless I'm wrong and the two really are the same card. So, to summarize why I don't think the two are the same card. 1. The autograph is in an old PSA case. 2. The issues around the Metal logo on front are not identical. __________________ @thereal27guy Founder of Basketball Card Fanatic Magazine

12-13-2018, 03:39 PM	#23
theLUCKYshow Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 5,455 theluckshow	I dont think the case is old. The PSA letter of authenticity shows the date as January 18, 2018. The last post on BO for the 60/100 was October, 2017. It makes the most sense that they're the same card. Edit: Wait that letter is from JSA. Now I'm confused. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk __________________ Always looking for high end Harry Giles AKA the Future Last edited by theLUCKYshow; 12-13-2018 at 03:43 PM.