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Old 08-21-2017, 10:30 AM   #26
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Yes. Upper Deck owns Fleer, although they haven't used the brand lately.

From my perspective, the hockey market has three problems:

#1 - it's a relatively small market
#2 - already has too many products
#3 - not enough superstars (it's Crosby, McDavid, and that's about it right now)

There's a limit to how many people want Gretzky & Bobby Orr autographs.....
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Old 08-21-2017, 11:03 AM   #27
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The problem I see is exclusives.
I always liked Topps.
But everyone of substance is locked up at this point.
And throwing another company into the mix actually makes it worse IMO.
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Old 08-21-2017, 11:37 AM   #28
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Why is it some products that Upper Deck produces is through the roof in terms of buying a box?

For Example... The Cup, Premier, UD Black, UD Black Diamond...

Is it due to the popularity of the rookie cards, autos, etc? It seems as if hockey is starting to gain steam in the card market with the rookies coming into the league.
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Old 08-21-2017, 11:58 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Fire241 View Post
Why is it some products that Upper Deck produces is through the roof in terms of buying a box?

For Example... The Cup, Premier, UD Black, UD Black Diamond...

Is it due to the popularity of the rookie cards, autos, etc? It seems as if hockey is starting to gain steam in the card market with the rookies coming into the league.
Because they are trying to cut costs on producing fewer cards per set. Look at the e-pack scam. Spend the same or more money on digital packs but not get any of the base without combining five or whatever copies to make one physical card.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:47 PM   #30
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Because they are trying to cut costs on producing fewer cards per set. Look at the e-pack scam. Spend the same or more money on digital packs but not get any of the base without combining five or whatever copies to make one physical card.
I wouldn't call it a scam in that sense. Most folks don't have any use for base these days. Gives you something that's a bit more exclusive than just some base card out of a pack.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:50 PM   #31
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Thanks for the info. Appreciate it. Been a collector since the "junk" era (1992/93). Stopped around 2001 and recently got back into the hobby.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:59 PM   #32
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Why is it some products that Upper Deck produces is through the roof in terms of buying a box?

For Example... The Cup, Premier, UD Black, UD Black Diamond...

Is it due to the popularity of the rookie cards, autos, etc? It seems as if hockey is starting to gain steam in the card market with the rookies coming into the league.
Those are their high-end brands too. That combined with the deeper rookie classes the past two seasons is why you see such high prices per box.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:09 PM   #33
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If this came to fruition, I'm not sure how much longer UD survives. I wouldn't worry about what Topps makes because you'd see various lines just like in baseball and as for exclusives, who is there besides Gretzky? And of course, if UD goes under, then maybe Gretzky and anyone else is back up for grabs in regards to cards.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:35 PM   #34
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If this came to fruition, I'm not sure how much longer UD survives. I wouldn't worry about what Topps makes because you'd see various lines just like in baseball and as for exclusives, who is there besides Gretzky? And of course, if UD goes under, then maybe Gretzky and anyone else is back up for grabs in regards to cards.
Topps is irrelevant in hockey.

It would not do anything to UD.
Bobby Orr is exclusive too but exclusives don't matter in hockey because it's all about the rookie cards. There's enough Gretzky/Orr autos for everyone in the world already.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:56 PM   #35
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Amazing how fondly some people look back at Topps when the vast majority of their hockey offerings were ridiculously overpriced and had very weak checklists overall from a wax breaking perspective.

Now set builders on the other hand that's a different story as they had some solid offerings from a set building stand point.

Unfortunately many of the brands that were a success for Topps in other sports just didn't translate to hockey. It's a very different collector base than that of other sports.

If they do come back the only thing I personally look forward to is Gold Label if it is done right and not the tire fire they turned it into in baseball. Unfortunately I see many many high end offerings taking center stage if they return and without the star power for the checklists that could be ugly.


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Old 08-21-2017, 06:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfw13 View Post
Yes. Upper Deck owns Fleer, although they haven't used the brand lately.

From my perspective, the hockey market has three problems:

#1 - it's a relatively small market
#2 - already has too many products
#3 - not enough superstars (it's Crosby, McDavid, and that's about it right now)

There's a limit to how many people want Gretzky & Bobby Orr autographs.....
Actual problem #1 is criminal USPS first class with d/c rates to Canada which renders an already tiny market virtually inaccessible. Canadian buyers just buy in-country and avoid insane shipping charges not to mention import duties on higher dollar items. Selling hockey cards stateside is over, baby.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:06 PM   #37
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Actual problem #1 is criminal USPS first class with d/c rates to Canada which renders an already tiny market virtually inaccessible. Canadian buyers just buy in-country and avoid insane shipping charges not to mention import duties on higher dollar items. Selling hockey cards stateside is over, baby.
Yep no one in the United States buys hockey cards... wait...
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Old 08-21-2017, 11:51 PM   #38
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If more US sellers would opt out of the GSP sales of hockey northward would increase. On low dollar items it makes no sense as we are exempt from the taxes and fees and on higher end there's many cases where I would be willing to pay THE SELLER for tracked shipping to Canada but not the GSP as it is a complete scam. Being charged taxes and import fees by Pitney Bowes which are supposed to be paid to Revenue Canada but aren't getting to them in many cases as I still get the same bill when item is delivered even though I had already paid those fees via GSP.

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Old 08-22-2017, 09:18 AM   #39
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Yep no one in the United States buys hockey cards... wait...
I know we're in the offseason lull, but there is some truth. I'm liquidating my multi sport collection on consignment and I did have more hockey cards than the other 3 sports and my seller says hockey cards are at a crawl on eBay. I had some Crosby, but no Matthews or McDavid, so apparently the rest is worthless lol.
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Old 08-22-2017, 02:54 PM   #40
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I buy 90% from U.S. and just ship to COMC.
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Old 08-22-2017, 03:00 PM   #41
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If more US sellers would opt out of the GSP sales of hockey northward would increase. On low dollar items it makes no sense as we are exempt from the taxes and fees and on higher end there's many cases where I would be willing to pay THE SELLER for tracked shipping to Canada but not the GSP as it is a complete scam. Being charged taxes and import fees by Pitney Bowes which are supposed to be paid to Revenue Canada but aren't getting to them in many cases as I still get the same bill when item is delivered even though I had already paid those fees via GSP.

Darren
Conversely, if more Canadian sellers would opt out of shipping items over $50 via registered mail (costing $15-20) instead of regular post (costing about $4), sales of hockey southward would increase. I've long since lost count of the number of hockey cards from Canadian sellers I've decided not to bid on because of this...
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Old 08-22-2017, 03:06 PM   #42
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I know we're in the offseason lull, but there is some truth. I'm liquidating my multi sport collection on consignment and I did have more hockey cards than the other 3 sports and my seller says hockey cards are at a crawl on eBay. I had some Crosby, but no Matthews or McDavid, so apparently the rest is worthless lol.
That's not all that far from the truth. Upper Deck has so over-saturated the market, that even autos of all-time greats like Gretzky and Orr don't even sell for that much any more.

There simply isn't enough demand to support all the products UD releases each year. and hockey simply isn't producing superstars like it used to. Outside of Crosby, there's almost nobody who even measures up to the likes of Messier, Lemieux, Yzerman, or Sakic. Heck, even Jonathan Toews & Patrick Kane don't get much hobby love even though they've won three Cups for a huge market US team.
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Old 08-22-2017, 03:35 PM   #43
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young guns are where its at in the hockey market

I remember when topps was making cards upper deck was still way better
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Old 08-22-2017, 04:51 PM   #44
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It's kind of funny you say this. OPC Platinum is Bowman Chrome without the name. Same pack out (packs/box & cards/pack) and the same basic design/hits. And the prices reflect just how little the hockey market cares for it.

Yes, the big name autographs still sell for a pretty penny, but they don't carry near the weight as Future Watch, Young Guns, Ultimate, or Cup...which I don't even like to mention.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:19 PM   #45
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battle of the redemption butt champions

from what i have gathered from other sports boards, topps cs is on par or better with regards to apathy compared to UD, and considering hockey has a hobby exclusive for the time being, and topps is the more-er of 3 evils(panini, hockey), is this news? will people buy? no and hopefully no.

if anything give dr price the look topps could get. not leaf, ITG. i appreciate those who appreciate the hobby, not flooded redemptions and "equivalency" expirations of the aforementioned. and i hold no weight one way or the other, i just know what i've experienced from 2 of the little name big name companies with customer service.

that being said...bellinger chrome, huh? pretty crazy.....

anyone wanna trade McDavid for 2017 topps Chrome?
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:31 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by mfw13 View Post
Conversely, if more Canadian sellers would opt out of shipping items over $50 via registered mail (costing $15-20) instead of regular post (costing about $4), sales of hockey southward would increase. I've long since lost count of the number of hockey cards from Canadian sellers I've decided not to bid on because of this...
You seem to have misinterpreted my post. I have no issue paying the required shipping rate for tracked shipping from the US to Canada...I take issue with paying a 3rd party to handle the transaction as described via ebay but they simply don't do it. Pitney Bowes is pocketing the cash that should be paid to the CRA for the taxes/import fees exactly as ebay specifies it should be.


I have no issue paying someone to have their ass protected from ebay/paypal and their complete protection of the buyer. I simply factor it in my bidding/offer and go from there and can't blame anyone from wanting to be protected on the transaction. The vast majority of users who both buy and sell via ebay seem to now understand how lopsided the chargeback system is.


The GSP is leading to being double charged for the same service and according to ebay "even though they advertise that is how it works, there is nothing they can do to Pitney Bowes if they choose not to fulfill the required fees being remitted". Also should be noted the last 3 items I did have items delivered through the GSP, the USPS tracking vanished after the first facility they were handled at and had no further updates for the rest of the transaction.

Darren
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:43 AM   #47
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Don't really care unless they bring back Heritage Hockey and start Archives hockey.
They can't really do either as UD already does it. UD owns OPC and they do multiple OPC sets a year.
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:44 AM   #48
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It's kind of funny you say this. OPC Platinum is Bowman Chrome without the name. Same pack out (packs/box & cards/pack) and the same basic design/hits. And the prices reflect just how little the hockey market cares for it.

Yes, the big name autographs still sell for a pretty penny, but they don't carry near the weight as Future Watch, Young Guns, Ultimate, or Cup...which I don't even like to mention.
Or Ice Premiers.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:08 AM   #49
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Good call, knew I was missing a big one!
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:10 PM   #50
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if topps gets NHL, they will not get Gretzky. He is UD all the way
Rats, then we will be stuck with only the 20,000 gretzky autos floating around.
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