Will Brady rookie cards ever come back to Earth?

[StevenTormollan]

Brady may win 1-3 more rings before all is said and done. That would change all of this and send him way beyond Montana/everybody.

[Kingofkings1281]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

His & Hers, before they took over 6pm sportscenter, basically said Tom Brady is not the greatest NFL player of all time basically because he is white and non athletic.

Oh how I love the direction that Disney is taking it's programming

The fact that Jemele Hill still has a job amazes me.

[jasonm2121]

Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281

The fact that Jemele Hill still has a job amazes me.

ESPN is a joke at this point

[mainelobster]

Do some PSA holders not have the "PSA" reflective logo on the front? Just curious as an ebay seller has been listing one PSA 10 after another of Brady rookies and none appear to have the reflective logo.

I send all my Brady rookies to BGS so not as familiar with PSA. I'm probably just being paranoid but figured it was worth asking.

[boston12]

Originally Posted by mainelobster

Do some PSA holders not have the "PSA" reflective logo on the front? Just curious as an ebay seller has been listing one PSA 10 after another of Brady rookies and none appear to have the reflective logo.

I send all my Brady rookies to BGS so not as familiar with PSA. I'm probably just being paranoid but figured it was worth asking.

Only newer ones have hologram logo. Not sure when. But within last couple of years

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by mainelobster

Do some PSA holders not have the "PSA" reflective logo on the front? Just curious as an ebay seller has been listing one PSA 10 after another of Brady rookies and none appear to have the reflective logo.

I send all my Brady rookies to BGS so not as familiar with PSA. I'm probably just being paranoid but figured it was worth asking.

Yes, those are the old slabs/flips

[mainelobster]

Originally Posted by boston12

Only newer ones have hologram logo. Not sure when. But within last couple of years

Lucky seller then! 25+ PSA 10s just listed including some very condition sensitive cards.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by friarbolt

I don't think so either. I just don't think he will stand as the clear and forever #1 name that defines the NFL as a sport. It's a matter of opinion, and you can certainly make the case, I just don't think so. And as it relates back to this topic, I think that is what's required for his cards to stay highly valuable.

I personally don't see how Brady could ever be considered the greatest football player ever. QB.... Yes, and it's probably with little resistance at this point

But if you look at what Jim Brown accomplished in his 9 year career... first team all pro 8 times, led league in rushing 8 times, led league in TD's 5 times. It is pretty clear that without question he was the most dominant force in NFL history. In an era where running the ball was like passing in today's game... Brown was better at his craft than Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, etc is/are/were at their craft today.

Rice could be argued strongly as well, his 10 all pro teams in an 11 year span are remarkable. He led the league in receiving 6 times, and receiving TD's 6 times as well. Jerry Rice scored 42 TD's after his 36th birthday...... there are only a handful of guys who can ever make a roster at that age.. let alone be productive in any aspect. Jerry Rice had more TD's after age 36 than Julio Jones has in his entire career

For dominance within the game at their positions... Brown and Rice stand alone and third is MUCH further back. Brady or a few other guys could be your third.......... but Brady never exhibited the dominance to get into the stratosphere of Brown or Rice. Brady was not even close to being the unquestioned best QB in his era if you weight the post season lightly (Rodgers and Manning did exactly what Brady did in the regular season and in most instances did it better). Brady has a handful of really solid post season games that propels his QB argument over the top for QB's. He played big in some big post season games and he played less than great in others.

I could easily see Brady as the third best player ever... but that is where it ends for me. Nothing he does at this point could move him any higher

[oplum29]

eventually everything bottom's out.

Even the Jordan rookie is around $700 raw.

same with Brady. They will peak out eventually and once he retires, that's it, until he either makes the HOF or runs for President of the United States.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

I personally don't see how Brady could ever be considered the greatest football player ever. QB.... Yes, and it's probably with little resistance at this point

But if you look at what Jim Brown accomplished in his 9 year career... first team all pro 8 times, led league in rushing 8 times, led league in TD's 5 times. It is pretty clear that without question he was the most dominant force in NFL history. In an era where running the ball was like passing in today's game... Brown was better at his craft than Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, etc is/are/were at their craft today.

Rice could be argued strongly as well, his 10 all pro teams in an 11 year span are remarkable. He led the league in receiving 6 times, and receiving TD's 6 times as well. Jerry Rice scored 42 TD's after his 36th birthday...... there are only a handful of guys who can ever make a roster at that age.. let alone be productive in any aspect. Jerry Rice had more TD's after age 36 than Julio Jones has in his entire career

For dominance within the game at their positions... Brown and Rice stand alone and third is MUCH further back. Brady or a few other guys could be your third.......... but Brady never exhibited the dominance to get into the stratosphere of Brown or Rice. Brady was not even close to being the unquestioned best QB in his era if you weight the post season lightly (Rodgers and Manning did exactly what Brady did in the regular season and in most instances did it better). Brady has a handful of really solid post season games that propels his QB argument over the top for QB's. He played big in some big post season games and he played less than great in others.

I could easily see Brady as the third best player ever... but that is where it ends for me. Nothing he does at this point could move him any higher

Brown also was arguably the most significant social figure in all of football history. His story goes way beyond just a game.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Brown also was arguably the most significant social figure in all of football history. His story goes way beyond just a game.

Greatest football player of all-time to me, comes down to really two players:

Jerry Rice and Walter Payton

but for my money, I'll take Jerry.

He played in a league that played real football, not this ticky-tack holding beyond 5 yards is a penalty stuff.

He also set an NFL record with 22 TDs in 12 games...it took Moss 16 games to get 23.

He's the only player in pro football history with 200 TDs, and until Megatron came along with his crazy season, he had the record for most yards receiving with about 1,800, mind you in a tougher league. And I think he set that record in 1995, playing with Young and two backup QBs.

[twisty571]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

For dominance within the game at their positions... Brown and Rice stand alone and third is MUCH further back. Brady or a few other guys could be your third.......... but Brady never exhibited the dominance to get into the stratosphere of Brown or Rice.

Originally Posted by oplum29

Greatest football player of all-time to me, comes down to really two players:

Jerry Rice and Walter Payton

but for my money, I'll take Jerry.

He played in a league that played real football, not this ticky-tack holding beyond 5 yards is a penalty stuff.

He also set an NFL record with 22 TDs in 12 games...it took Moss 16 games to get 23.

He's the only player in pro football history with 200 TDs, and until Megatron came along with his crazy season, he had the record for most yards receiving with about 1,800, mind you in a tougher league. And I think he set that record in 1995, playing with Young and two backup QBs.

I am not saying Brady is the greatest FB player ever but throwing this out there....

How long has Brady & the Pat's been dominating the AFC? Their Division? & SB's in how many years? When Brady actually had a big HOF WR (Moss) he was breaking every record in the league and went undefeated. I call that dominance. Manning had to go to a fully loaded team (Bronco's) to be able to go after Brady's records.

Also with that success & dominance Brady owns about every QB record in the Playoffs that may never be seen again.

[rj.cataldo]

In my opinion they most certainly will go down at some point. It's natural. A new high water mark has been set, and naturally they will pull back some, but they won't see the "floor" that they were at previously.

Same with Jordan. His rookies popped last year and then they pulled back, but not to the levels they were at previous to the pop. They will never be cheap, but there certainly will be an opportunity to buy at a lower price point at some point in the future than the week after the Superbowl.

[Badgers0821]

Originally Posted by SirTommyWinAlot

If it's high end low end, as long as it's the highest grade, it won't go down.

If he breaks Peyton's passing records in the next couple years and wins another super bowl, it's going to be even more chaos.


I wouldn't count out high velocity multiple expansion.

The problem for Brady isn't Mannings records...its Brees, who is already ahead of him in those categories.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by oplum29

eventually everything bottom's out.

Even the Jordan rookie is around $700 raw.

same with Brady. They will peak out eventually and once he retires, that's it, until he either makes the HOF or runs for President of the United States.

There are a million Jordan rookies out there. There are only 1250 SPA's (or less) and there are less contenders (AND those are autographed). Hard to compare the two. Imagine if Jordan had a serial numbered rookie card, or an autographed on card rookie card. Apples and oranges.

[jasonm2121]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

There are a million Jordan rookies out there. There are only 1250 SPA's (or less) and there are less contenders (AND those are autographed). Hard to compare the two. Imagine if Jordan had a serial numbered rookie card, or an autographed on card rookie card. Apples and oranges.

yep, and so many fake

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by friarbolt

Elway, Montana, Marino, and Manning are a few names that come to mind. But I would also include future players. Part of my point is that I think as time goes on, his achievements will fade and be overshadowed by current players.

Now I'm not suggesting those future players will be better, just that I'm not convinced Brady will stand the test of time like Jordan or Gretzky. Every guy that comes up in those sports is compared to them.

People might compare future championships winners to Brady's rings, but I don't know if they would do it as an iconic player. Meaning I don't think we will be debating decades from if some young star is the next Tom Brady.

agree to disagree..... I really only think of one player that can hold a candle to Brady and that's Montana. Even the deep seated haters on these boards are saying Brady is the GOAT...

And no active player is even close to Brady in getting 5 SB wins. (Eli and Big Ben have 2 each). And yes, every young star in the future likely WILL be compared to Brady (as he was to Montana). He will be the measured standard for QB's 15-20 years from now.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

agree to disagree..... I really only think of one player that can hold a candle to Brady and that's Montana. Even the deep seated haters on these boards are saying Brady is the GOAT...

And no active player is even close to Brady in getting 5 SB wins. (Eli and Big Ben have 2 each). And yes, every young star in the future likely WILL be compared to Brady (as he was to Montana). He will be the measured standard for QB's 15-20 years from now.

I honestly think by the time he retires whether its 3-5 years from now he'll be so far ahead of the second guy that it wont even be close. The yards and touchdowns will probably get broken years from now just because of the way the game is played now. But the Wins...the wins will never get broken. By the time he retires he'll have about 250 wins. In order for a Quarterback to break that they'd have to average a perfect 16-0 season for 16 years...just think about that.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by twisty571

No they didn't.........what I find funny is most of the actual Pro's past & present all say Brady has eclipsed everyone at the QB position. It's just to hard for the die hard haters to actually realize greatness. Marino & Manning aren't even in the conversation. Marino never won the SB. Manning has had to have a loaded team to win. He was given his 2nd ring so he would retire with dignity. Brock was doing just fine with that team & were a playoff team before Manning got there. Elway was a great QB along with Montana but I mean come on. Brady has great stats regular season & owns most playoff records and has 5 rings to show for it. He has arguably worked with less than any of those other QB's.

The next thing you guys are forgetting is every one of those QB's are long gone except Manning. Half the kids now a days growing up now or just getting into football casually may know nothing of Marino/Montana/Elway except the clips because they never actually got to see them play. They have got to see Manning & Brady & Rodgers. Manning is done. Rodgers keeps falling flat in the Playoffs. Brady keeps winning rings..........

This comment doesn't even speak to what you bolded; it makes zero sense and shows a lack of comprehension.

Nobody is arguing Brady's greatness.... But Brady did not change the sport or change the QB position in any way, shape, or form. Let me explain a few of the examples. Marino was the first ever QB to put up numbers like guys do today. To throw 48 TD passes in a season in the early 80's changed the passing game in the NFL. He was 25-30 years ahead of his time. When you look at the single greatest seasons a QB ever had.... the Marino 48 year is right there with the 49 Manning year, Brady 50 year, and Rodgers 45. The timing and influence on the passing game from Marino changed the way NFL offenses called plays and what type of QB's team's sought in the draft.

Manning changed the way QB's called plays from the line. Sure, audibles happened from the beginning of time.. plays were changed at the line.... However; Manning was more or less the offensive coordinator of the Colts. There were numerous occasions where the OC was on record saying that the plays he called in were just suggestions, in the end Manning called the play he thought was best. No QB ever had that ability or knowledge to process the information. He was a 4 time MVP calling his own plays most of the time. That is pretty amazing and had never before been seen. The Denver years were not quite the same

Aaron Rodgers..... Rodgers has the quick release of Marino, quick feet of Manning, Mobility similar to that of Steve Young, Arm strength of Favre..... he is the ultimate NFL prototype QB. His skill set is far and away the best the NFL has ever seen in one player at the QB position. He is the standard physical specimen that every GM will draft for if possible in the future.... His efficiency is significantly better than any player to have ever played the position. His TD;Int ratio dwarfs Brady (and Brady is far and away 2nd best all time). Rodgers play at the position is the best in history, individual stats dealing with efficiency show that clearly in many instances. His efficiency at the position is the benchmark for everyone moving forward. In the era of efficiency at the QB position, nobody is on Rodger's level for a career.

****That does not mean Brady is not great, it doesn't mean people are blind.... it means Brady individually has done nothing to set himself apart in a way that changed the game, changed the way the position way played, or how the game would be played moving forward.

Brady is the driving force behind the greatest organization in NFL history. He is a leader, he is very smart, and he motivates the guys around him. He does not do anything physically that the next good QB is unable to do. His greatness is significantly based on wins and team success... and with more people involved with that success in football than any other sport.... some people don't necessarily feel the same overall tie to QB = Ring, like they do in basketball. It's an impossible comparison to make

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

He does not do anything physically that the next good QB is unable to do. His greatness is significantly based on wins and team success...

Did you type this with a straight face?

I mean, come on.

[rttrffg2012]

They will come back down.

The issue of collectable card vs commodity plays a role here.

With the proliferation of vintage grade cards (Mantle rookie, Jordan rookie, etc.) people believe that cards will become good investments or financial equity.

While you may have a good argument for a Honus Wagner or Mantle rookie, Brady's rookies just don't have staying power. Here's why:

1) There are 1000's if not millions out there, available.
2) Which is his best rookie? There are probably 100 different issues/variations.
3) He is not liked outside of Boston. He's the best, but he's not like Montana or Marino.
4)He still has years left to ruin his reputation. Unlike Jordan and Mantle, he doesn't have anything else to make him iconic.

When Montana retired, his rookie booked for around $200-250 and it sold for as much. He was considered iconic, untouchable, and the best. That card is cheap now. The card just didn't last because time passed, the game changed, and people forgot.

The cards are hyped right now but they will come down eventually.

[jasonm2121]

It is ok all,Montana now says impossible to say best, good timing, Joe.

[RogerGodahell]

Everyone knows the NFL is a quarterback driven league and Tom is the best that's ever done it. You're still trying to make this a debate when that ship has already sailed. Yeah Rogers is great physically problem is he has no heart. Peyton, great arm ball hog, king of 1 yard touchdown and only cared about padding his stats. Choked in the playoffs a lot, needed a loaded Denver D to carry win him his 2nd SB. Marino great arm loved to throw throw throw sort of like Peyton but those guys didn't know how to win games (close them out) when it was crunch time. And he couldn't even win a single SB. Matt Stafford comes to mind.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by twisty571

I am not saying Brady is the greatest FB player ever but throwing this out there....

How long has Brady & the Pat's been dominating the AFC? Their Division? & SB's in how many years? When Brady actually had a big HOF WR (Moss) he was breaking every record in the league and went undefeated. I call that dominance. Manning had to go to a fully loaded team (Bronco's) to be able to go after Brady's records.

Also with that success & dominance Brady owns about every QB record in the Playoffs that may never be seen again.

Let's stop the nonsense with all this "team success" stuff with Brady. Brady has just two MVP's to his name and 2 first team all pro seasons in 17 years. Yes, winning is important but when you are engrossed in the most brilliant organization in NFL history would you not expect team success. If you look at the personnel decisions made by NE over the last 20 years, they are absolutely brilliant in every aspect. Belichik is able to pull Blount off the scrap heap (literally from his couch) when nobody else wanted him; and he is a 17 TD guy...... really? Nobody else saw value in him and he can score 17 TD's in a season with NE........ The sum of the Patriots is so far above and beyond the individual parts it is laughable. Brady is the perfect personality to mirror Belichick on this field. One without the other would not yield the same results. The value placed on the team in NE is SIGNIFICANTLY skewed. Those players all buy into a concept that makes the team much better than the parts.... Brady may not have individual monsters around him but he has 50 plus guys with the "Patriot Way" around him. Over the 17 years in NE that is much more valuable than having individual stars

The 07 team was without a doubt the most talented.... yet with 6 first team all pros on offense and a perfect season on the line they lost. It was not as complete of a team as earlier editions. Let's give credit to all the places where it is due (coaching, organization, style of play) and not lay all the accolades at Brady's feet.

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by jasonm2121

It is ok all,Montana now says impossible to say best, good timing, Joe.

And Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh have won nine or seven championships...he can't remember which one...