Economy, and cards.

[Rufusyo]

Is the poor economy starting to trickle down into the card market? I flip a few cards here and there. I have noticed that a lot of the cards I have are selling for a lot less than similar cards would have in years past. I am not worried about it. I know over time things will go back up, but it seems like things are really on the down side. Any of you guys seeing similar trends or is it just me? I know a lot of guys speculate about case prices in the near future. Granted this rookie class is looking great, I wonder if this poor economic situation wont keep prices a little flatter.

I know a majority of this board rip and flip, or buy and hold for the future. What do you seasoned and non seasoned guys see now, and think the near future will hold as far as cards go?

One more thing, everyone says things are going good at my local shop. There are several guys that are a part of it. Anyone keep tabs on how well their local shops are doing?

[iluvfish2]

its been hurting the market for almost a year now. Personally if it wasn't for the sucess of the 08 rookies, the FB market could really be hurting. Its not just FB though. The markets in trouble, but if it comes down to food or cards for me, thats not a hard decision....topps gum doesnt taste that good

I've for the most part stopped selling on the bay (to many NPB's and fee increases for my tastes). Even my buying has been cut back. Its a great time to pick up singles and/or cards/players you collect though.

[Rufusyo]

Originally Posted by iluvfish2

its been hurting the market for almost a year now. Personally if it wasn't for the sucess of the 08 rookies, the FB market could really be hurting. Its not just FB though. The markets in trouble, but if it comes down to food or cards for me, thats not a hard decision....topps gum doesnt taste that good

I've for the most part stopped selling on the bay (to many NPB's and fee increases for my tastes). Even my buying has been cut back. Its a great time to pick up singles and/or cards/players you collect though.

I guess I should have said hit it hard instead of "trickle down", It just seems real bad on my end. You look at the price point of some of the 2006 stuff at the end of the season and then what it is now! Wow, and we think the mortgage crisis is bad. Not to take that lightly, and don't get me wrong, but a lot of that stuff has dipped more than 50%. I know that the rookies have something to do with it, but it is just bad.

[tarzanlovesjane]

Well, things are going to get much worse before they get better. Sports cards are a luxury, and when times get hard they'll be the first thing people leave behind. There are much bigger worries in the world right now, and we are nearing a crisis. It's a bleak outlook right now.

[Rufusyo]

Originally Posted by tarzanlovesjane

Well, things are going to get much worse before they get better. Sports cards are a luxury, and when times get hard they'll be the first thing people leave behind. There are much bigger worries in the world right now, and we are nearing a crisis. It's a bleak outlook right now.

Ya, when the government is talking about a 700 BILLION dollar buy out of bad debt, and the rest of the worlds markets arent looking to great. Things are not good.

[aronp24]

While the economy does have something to do with it you will find that people who have the money will always buy into their hobbies.Prices for "huge" cards (Ruth's, etc. and SOME cuts)have remained consistent...
The REAL culprit, in my opinion, is the card companies themselves. The last 4 years in Cardboard land have been flooded with nothing but the same crap over and over again....first it was a jersey or auto per case...then per box....then per pack....then multiple "hits" per pack..now multiple Multi-swatch cards in every pack...it's out of hand....there is nothing new under the sun anymore...cut autos of non-deceased 80's rock stars...manufactured letters in every box.....nothing new at all....this flooded quantity of single colored jerseys that Ned in receiving wore during his shift and these unlegible sticker autos have destroyed the resale value more than the economy....
HUGE cards still sell well..the other plethora of crap does not and will not...

[MarkBrauer]

But Dosen't Buying Box's And Packs Actually help do our part in restoring the economy?

We are paying for the people at topps/ud/donruss to hire employees.

I do not think we will go into a full blown economic crash where almost nobody can afford food and it is severely rationed.

Hopefully when we get a new president we can start moving back up the ladder and hoping our country gets rid of its faults.

[JohnfromtheBay]

Originally Posted by Rufusyo

Ya, when the government is talking about a 700 BILLION dollar buy out of bad debt, and the rest of the worlds markets arent looking to great. Things are not good.

Don't forget the fact that the U.S Government is 10 Trillion in Debt...It isn't Looking good for the U.S government.

[ND3]

Originally Posted by JohnfromtheBay

Don't forget the fact that the U.S Government is 10 Trillion in Debt...It isn't Looking good for the U.S government.

Stop it John they just need to turn on the presses....more money for everyone!!!

But really I don't think most of the this country realizes the economic problem we are all facing. American's spending behavior really needs to change....worrying about how much you have, what the person next to you has, and how to get more is the reason we are here in the first place.

Gordon Gecko said 'Greed is Good'. Not so much folks! A new regime in the White House isn't gonna fix this and whatever regulatory oversite that is put in place after this latest disaster will be circumvented by the next batch of CEOs of corporate America. Really amazing that we have learned nothing from the Enron's, Bear Sterns and Lehman's of the world.

[JohnfromtheBay]

Originally Posted by ND3

Stop it John they just need to turn on the presses....more money for everyone!!!

But really I don't think most of the this country realizes the economic problem we are all facing. American's spending behavior really needs to change....worrying about how much you have, what the person next to you has, and how to get more is the reason we are here in the first place.

Gordon Gecko said 'Greed is Good'. Not so much folks! A new regime in the White House isn't gonna fix this and whatever regulatory oversite that is put in place after this latest disaster will be circumvented by the next batch of CEOs of corporate America. Really amazing that we have learned nothing from the Enron's, Bear Sterns and Lehman's of the world.

Lets go Green Party

[ricefan77]

Originally Posted by aronp24

While the economy does have something to do with it you will find that people who have the money will always buy into their hobbies.Prices for "huge" cards (Ruth's, etc. and SOME cuts)have remained consistent...
The REAL culprit, in my opinion, is the card companies themselves. The last 4 years in Cardboard land have been flooded with nothing but the same crap over and over again....first it was a jersey or auto per case...then per box....then per pack....then multiple "hits" per pack..now multiple Multi-swatch cards in every pack...it's out of hand....there is nothing new under the sun anymore...cut autos of non-deceased 80's rock stars...manufactured letters in every box.....nothing new at all....this flooded quantity of single colored jerseys that Ned in receiving wore during his shift and these unlegible sticker autos have destroyed the resale value more than the economy....
HUGE cards still sell well..the other plethora of crap does not and will not...

I think the economy is definitely part of the problem, but i agree that the real culprit is the card companies, there are like 6 or seven sets out right now that are all the same. Donruss threads, classics, elite, playoff, spx, icons, heroes, bowman sterling, topps finest, seriously there are about 10 different dmac patch autos, numbered anywhere from 1 to 999, i'm not paying $100 or $200 for a guys rookie if there are really 10,000 of them out there and he's played in a couple games. (i'll sell em for that though ) The on card autos should always fetch much more of a premium. exquisite and sp authentic are really where it's at.

[Texansfan]

In my opinion the economy does suck..... The greed and inflation we have seen over the last 5+ years has had a lot to do with that!
A local paper said this is the worst unemployment since the 30's. I dont know how true that is, and I am not wise on the economy, but I know we are all on this site because we are buying cards and/or plan on doing so. I dont think while I can drop $200 on a box or two of cards on my way home from work that I can really bitch at the market, or the economy, when I see kids every night at work getting "treated" to McD's once a month when their parents check comes in.
In my opinion, yes, my retirement and side savings are being hurt by the stock market right now. But I am investing the same, and buying more at a cheaper price, so that when the economy does turn full circle, I am that much more ahead.
I believe a majority of the panic in people, like general is instilled by the media, and statistics. Anyone who has taken a statistics class in college, knows how easy you can change those the way you want!
Sorry for the rant.........

[Vintage Collector]

Fortunately, Right now, I am with Texasfan. I am investing the same and buying on the down slide hoping for a long time return.

Same with my hobby, I have been buying and getting some great deals as a result of the economy. I have curtailed my net spending but I have been more selective in my purchases/investments.

[Bigblue]

There's one thing about this whole bad loans...banks signing on loans to people who can't afford them...stuff I don not get

I have built 2 homes in my life...The first home I had to take out a PMI Private Mortgage Insurance...which is BS ...It's an insurance plan I buy to protect the bank in case I default.

So...If all these properties (people) are defaulting...aren't the banks safe???

I think more of what we are really seeing is bad business loans now...money was given to bogus, bad or idiotic ideas and people...all for the sake of making a percentage.

So in reality...most of us have the same amount of money...we don't "trust" what's going on around us....inflation looks bad...so we hang onto our money a little bit more instead of throwing it at the next hot investment (Internet stock...housing market..)

OK...Maybe sportscards are next!!!

[Brad]

Originally Posted by MarkBrauer

But Dosen't Buying Box's And Packs Actually help do our part in restoring the economy?

We are paying for the people at topps/ud/donruss to hire employees.

lol. not quite.

[ssj3goten]

For me on a single (military) income and 3 mouths to feed the prices going up has made changes for not my hobby (cards, fishing,) but everything we still a going strong but have made cut backs. I don't go fishing 3 hours away as often and with the card hobby I am not a rip and flip because I don't see much of a point of it. I collect for fun, but I have really cut back on going to target/wallmart to grab a blaster I might have bought 5 this year whereas last year I was buying like 1 a week. I save my small personal money and each month or so buy up a low/mid priced box like select or prestige.

[jacobbigshow]

We are screwed right now, if anybody does have money, buying cards might be a good investment. My sales on ebay have dropped a significant amount over the last few months, lots of stuff that used to sell for X is now selling for 10-20% lower, and a lot of stuff isn't selling at all. I think we have to wait it out for the market to re-balance, but I don't think we will see the good economy for another 5 years since they say next year may be worse. God I wish there was a good president and good congress and senate. We have a bunch of idiots running the country, I used to be a republican but the way they are running this country off the ledge I can't vote for them again. We need a third party system, both parties do nothing for the country and do nothing to help it.

[Rufusyo]

Originally Posted by jacobbigshow

We are screwed right now, if anybody does have money, buying cards might be a good investment. My sales on ebay have dropped a significant amount over the last few months, lots of stuff that used to sell for X is now selling for 10-20% lower, and a lot of stuff isn't selling at all. I think we have to wait it out for the market to re-balance, but I don't think we will see the good economy for another 5 years since they say next year may be worse. God I wish there was a good president and good congress and senate. We have a bunch of idiots running the country, I used to be a republican but the way they are running this country off the ledge I can't vote for them again. We need a third party system, both parties do nothing for the country and do nothing to help it.

Well I understand your frustration, but our government is not the only one to blame. Banks and Investors in general took on a lot of bad loans that they didn't have to. This isn't something you can just go out and fix, if you try to you are just delaying the inevitable. I think it is ND3 that works for Merrill Lynch/BofA. I am sure he knows and sees better than most of us the situation we are in.

Here is an example as far as banks/lenders taking on a bad loan (one of many). I built my house 3 years ago. I could have built a much larger house than I bought if I wanted to. The problem with that is I would have had to cut back on everything just to afford it. Yet the lender knowing my financial situation was still willing to take that loan on. My neighbors a couple doors down are on their way out because that is what they did, and they can no longer make the payment. My neighbors across the street are in the same boat, lucky for them mommy and daddy are taking care of them. That is just part of the problem. Look at these 40 year mortgages where you pay the interest up front, and then these ARM, and so on... the list goes on. Then we can move along to Credit Cards, and other debt. Its just not a good situation.

I for one have been wondering how much more money I am going to spend on cards in the near future. I have a little one on the way, and I am considering just saving what extra money I have to have a little more of a cushion when it comes along. I am personaly fine as of now, but this stuff all around us just makes me a little uneasy.

[jacobbigshow]

Where the government should have stepped in when they saw these crazy mortgages. Lots of people are to blame for that. The lender, the people accepting the loans, and the government.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by jacobbigshow

Where the government should have stepped in when they saw these crazy mortgages. Lots of people are to blame for that. The lender, the people accepting the loans, and the government.

I prefer less government intervention. If people are stupid enough to get loans way over their head, too bad. It should not be up to me to pay for someone else's mistake. I play by the rules and get penalized...they do stupid stuff and now want the government to help them out!

[jacobbigshow]

Originally Posted by Boo

I prefer less government intervention. If people are stupid enough to get loans way over their head, too bad. It should not be up to me to pay for someone else's mistake. I play by the rules and get penalized...they do stupid stuff and now want the government to help them out!

I agree with you, but guess what, WE ARE PAYING FOR THEIR MISTAKES! I don't think the government should bail out these companies, if they gave out these loans to people stupid enough not to hire a lawyer to read it before signing and expected the loan to be paid back they are crazy. All of the greed will take years for us to rebound.

[Boo]

I was just replying to your point about the gov't stepping in when they saw the exotic mortgages being given. We are screwed either way. It just sucks to have to pay for someone else's mistake!

[ssj3goten]

Even on our income but high credit scores we were offered home loans WAY above what I knew we could afford. We had a house built that was modest and we could afford no problem, but turned it down after it built for various reasons, but the main one being the fact of losing money when we would go to sell it a 2-3 years.
I do agree with some comments on why I should bail out my neighbor who couldn't keep up with his/her bills. When I pay mine on time, but I also have enough in my nest egg at age 26 to grow into more than I will need when i am ready to retire and those who lost their homes will struggle for a long time.

[jacobbigshow]

Originally Posted by ssj3goten

Even on our income but high credit scores we were offered home loans WAY above what I knew we could afford. We had a house built that was modest and we could afford no problem, but turned it down after it built for various reasons, but the main one being the fact of losing money when we would go to sell it a 2-3 years.
I do agree with some comments on why I should bail out my neighbor who couldn't keep up with his/her bills. When I pay mine on time, but I also have enough in my nest egg at age 26 to grow into more than I will need when i am ready to retire and those who lost their homes will struggle for a long time.

Exactly the greed by people taking loans that they knew they could never afford is the main reason we are in the position we are in now. But o well, its done now, and now all of us have to pay for the stupidity of 10-15% of the country.

[jbellis74]

Originally Posted by Texansfan

In my opinion the economy does suck..... The greed and inflation we have seen over the last 5+ years has had a lot to do with that!
A local paper said this is the worst unemployment since the 30's. I dont know how true that is, and I am not wise on the economy, but I know we are all on this site because we are buying cards and/or plan on doing so. I dont think while I can drop $200 on a box or two of cards on my way home from work that I can really bitch at the market, or the economy, when I see kids every night at work getting "treated" to McD's once a month when their parents check comes in.
In my opinion, yes, my retirement and side savings are being hurt by the stock market right now. But I am investing the same, and buying more at a cheaper price, so that when the economy does turn full circle, I am that much more ahead.
I believe a majority of the panic in people, like general is instilled by the media, and statistics. Anyone who has taken a statistics class in college, knows how easy you can change those the way you want!
Sorry for the rant.........

Your under the assumption that the market is going to turn a full circle. I wouldnt count on it anytime soon. I believe it will get worse and not better for years to come.