Am I Missing Something 1969 Topps Mantle PSA 6 Sale

Raleigh504 · 12-30-2020, 12:08 PM

In three days it went from $480 to $2,146... Am I missing something on the card or some event that caused this spike?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-...MAAOSwE3Bf3mig

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-...YAAOSweZhfD6S7

free2131 · 12-30-2020, 12:10 PM

Shilling. PWCC is notorious for it.

mjohnatgt · 12-30-2020, 12:16 PM

In that case, the centering is worthy of a much higher grade. That card is normally found about 30/70 l/r centered. So having one that's close to 50/50 is a rarity.

Raleigh504 · 12-30-2020, 12:17 PM

I figured that happened but over $1,500 seems crazy to me

Kennesawsports · 12-30-2020, 01:40 PM

Unfortunately, and forgive my skepticism, but that card, because of the centering being great and only edge wear, is a perfect candidate for unethical behavior(trimming). I hate it that I have become so untrusting the past few years, but because of all the great work of some of our members here, I cannot help it now.....A 10,000 card could be easily in the works.....I really hope that card went into a TRUE collectors hands....

discodanman45 · 12-30-2020, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kennesawsports

Unfortunately, and forgive my skepticism, but that card, because of the centering being great and only edge wear, is a perfect candidate for unethical behavior(trimming). I hate it that I have become so untrusting the past few years, but because of all the great work of some of our members here, I cannot help it now.....A 10,000 card could be easily in the works.....I really hope that card went into a TRUE collectors hands....

I think you are 100% on this. This is a perfect card to trim. If you look at this card it is also a tad on the larger size as well. You could take a little off this card and still be a regular sized card. Two card doctors probably saw the possibility of this and bid each other up. I am going to take a image of this card and wait for a PSA 9 or 10 to come up for sale to compare.

Doctor Claw · 12-31-2020, 03:33 PM

I know the owner of this card well and can say this sale is 100% legitimate. He did not shill his card. In fact he and I were texting afterward, and he was surprised by the strength of the sale and that of another Mantle which was his. He knew his 69 would do very well (as the 1969 Mantle is not normally found with that eye appeal/centering), of course not that well. Happy for him.

rainmaker · 12-31-2020, 03:36 PM

Centering (eye appeal) premium is very much a real thing.

GC1980 · 12-31-2020, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Claw

I know the owner of this card well and can say this sale is 100% legitimate. He did not shill his card. In fact he and I were texting afterward, and he was surprised by the strength of the sale and that of another Mantle. He knew his 69 would do very well, of course not that well.

Co-sign. I too know the seller and he 100% was not involved in any shilling of hte card.

Doctor Claw · 12-31-2020, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Centering (eye appeal) premium is very much a real thing.

Agreed. There are collectors out there who wait long and sometimes frustrating periods of time for "the right card" for them. And when they see it, they have no qualms about bidding strong for it.

I have too many anecdotes to share about snipes that friends and I have put in on cards we really wanted, and had someone else felt the same way (and sometimes someone did, ugh!), the hammer would be quite anomalous as compared to historical pricing. But if the card's eye appeal is anomalous as compared to the "masses" of other copies, sometimes to win the bid has to be commensurate with that. And sadly often times we are indeed competing with card doctors for those beauties.

mjohnatgt · 12-31-2020, 04:31 PM

The other posts concerning the likelihood of this card being trimmed are correct as well though. All the border chipping and corner wear look like the only thing holding this card back from a 9 or so.

Doctor Claw · 12-31-2020, 04:39 PM

Absolutely. Such cards become the perfect storm, with both collectors and doctors bidding for them. One time I had to actually engage lawyers to wind up securing a card I purchased fair and square, just because a doctor had seen it after I bought it and wanted to pay the seller a ton more. Thankfully that one was spared and still resides with me, and will be with me and then my son for quite some time.

Neal · 01-01-2021, 05:04 PM

All of the above comments are reasonable .... and these below

PWCC has a pretty big following, with a few collectors with DEEP pockets buying only from them and only cards with the PWCC sticker (great marketing, like it or not) and they ship overseas

Not defending them at all, but not all is nefarious. Just a great business model and HUGE customer base

Slvnumber2 · 01-01-2021, 06:53 PM

Very nice card and correct that centering on 69 Mantle cards is very tough. With bidder ID’s being blocked now it is hard to tell if it was shilled these days. Nice centering with a slight tilt would make it a $1k card IMO - normal sales are $500-600 on the high end. For $2100 either it was shilled or two guys really wanted it badly. I love Mantle cards and will overpay and have done so before, but this one makes no sense at that price.

MoreToppsPlease · 01-01-2021, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal

All of the above comments are reasonable .... and these below

PWCC has a pretty big following, with a few collectors with DEEP pockets buying only from them and only cards with the PWCC sticker (great marketing, like it or not) and they ship overseas

Not defending them at all, but not all is nefarious. Just a great business model and HUGE customer base

Don’t they also accept “non-standard” payment options? If so, comparing their sales to other consignors/sellers isn’t necessarily an apples to apples comparison.

12-30-2020, 12:08 PM	#1
Raleigh504 Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: NC Posts: 2,650 ig_bljhsports	Am I Missing Something 1969 Topps Mantle PSA 6 Sale In three days it went from $480 to $2,146... Am I missing something on the card or some event that caused this spike? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-...MAAOSwE3Bf3mig https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-...YAAOSweZhfD6S7

12-30-2020, 12:10 PM	#2
free2131 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5,367	Shilling. PWCC is notorious for it. __________________ “I exploit you, still you love me. I tell you one and one makes three.” - Living Colour

12-31-2020, 03:33 PM	#7
Doctor Claw Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1,017	I know the owner of this card well and can say this sale is 100% legitimate. He did not shill his card. In fact he and I were texting afterward, and he was surprised by the strength of the sale and that of another Mantle which was his. He knew his 69 would do very well (as the 1969 Mantle is not normally found with that eye appeal/centering), of course not that well. Happy for him. __________________ instagram: mattyc_collection Last edited by Doctor Claw; 12-31-2020 at 03:38 PM.

12-31-2020, 03:36 PM	#8
rainmaker Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 2,824 thewescoast	Centering (eye appeal) premium is very much a real thing. __________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/152850287@N08/albums

12-31-2020, 04:39 PM	#12
Doctor Claw Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1,017	Absolutely. Such cards become the perfect storm, with both collectors and doctors bidding for them. One time I had to actually engage lawyers to wind up securing a card I purchased fair and square, just because a doctor had seen it after I bought it and wanted to pay the seller a ton more. Thankfully that one was spared and still resides with me, and will be with me and then my son for quite some time. __________________ instagram: mattyc_collection

12-30-2020, 12:16 PM	#3
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,447 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	In that case, the centering is worthy of a much higher grade. That card is normally found about 30/70 l/r centered. So having one that's close to 50/50 is a rarity.

12-30-2020, 12:17 PM	#4
Raleigh504 Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: NC Posts: 2,650 ig_bljhsports	I figured that happened but over $1,500 seems crazy to me

12-30-2020, 01:40 PM	#5
Kennesawsports Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 122 Kabryman	Unfortunately, and forgive my skepticism, but that card, because of the centering being great and only edge wear, is a perfect candidate for unethical behavior(trimming). I hate it that I have become so untrusting the past few years, but because of all the great work of some of our members here, I cannot help it now.....A 10,000 card could be easily in the works.....I really hope that card went into a TRUE collectors hands....

12-31-2020, 04:31 PM	#11
mjohnatgt Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Niceville, FL Posts: 14,447 mjohnatgt mjohnatgt	The other posts concerning the likelihood of this card being trimmed are correct as well though. All the border chipping and corner wear look like the only thing holding this card back from a 9 or so.

01-01-2021, 05:04 PM	#13
Neal Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,830 1420sports	All of the above comments are reasonable .... and these below PWCC has a pretty big following, with a few collectors with DEEP pockets buying only from them and only cards with the PWCC sticker (great marketing, like it or not) and they ship overseas Not defending them at all, but not all is nefarious. Just a great business model and HUGE customer base __________________ collecting vintage sports cards and Star Wars .... with a touch of modern and ultra modern

01-01-2021, 06:53 PM	#14
Slvnumber2 Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,216	Very nice card and correct that centering on 69 Mantle cards is very tough. With bidder ID’s being blocked now it is hard to tell if it was shilled these days. Nice centering with a slight tilt would make it a $1k card IMO - normal sales are $500-600 on the high end. For $2100 either it was shilled or two guys really wanted it badly. I love Mantle cards and will overpay and have done so before, but this one makes no sense at that price.