Elly De La Cruz

[packman80]

Reds did Cruz no favors by letting him stay in the majors all year and struggle and get worse which probably got into his head. Should have sent him down sometime in August to work out his issues.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by packman80

Reds did Cruz no favors by letting him stay in the majors all year and struggle and get worse which probably got into his head. Should have sent him down sometime in August to work out his issues.

But we were told that he had nothing left to prove in the minors and being sent down would not help him at all.

[BambinoShuffle]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Or maybe the blowout experts aren't experts?

Blowout experts… I have no idea what they do for a living.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Or maybe the blowout experts aren't experts?

Yet you seem very certain that Elly is one small adjustment, that is extremely difficult, away from being a very good player. Even though you have zero idea what adjustment is needed.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Yet you seem very certain that Elly is one small adjustment, that is extremely difficult, away from being a very good player. Even though you have zero idea what adjustment is needed.

I never said I have zero idea. I have plenty of ideas. But let's leave that to the actual experts who work with him every day.

Who knows, maybe they'll give you a call for advice though. Keep waiting.

But again, you don't understand what I was saying. I said the margin of adjustment between a mediocre major leaguer and a star is always small. It's hard to make that adjustment, but it's not big at that level.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I never said I have zero idea. I have plenty of ideas. But let's leave that to the actual experts who work with him every day.

Who knows, maybe they'll give you a call for advice though. Keep waiting.

But again, you don't understand what I was saying. I said the margin of adjustment between a mediocre major leaguer and a star is always small. It's hard to make that adjustment, but it's not big at that level.

No I understand what you are saying just fine. You ignored what I said. From the 30,000 foot view, as in factoring in all levels of play, the change isn't very big. When you look at just the major league level, where everyone is already best of the best, those gaps are a lot bigger than what you think.

11 hits to go from a .230 to a .260 hitter doesn't sound like a lot. But when you really break it down, flipping 11 outs into hits is a lot harder and a lot bigger than you are making it out to be. Going from a 1-2 WAR, role player, to a 3-4 WAR, good player, is a much larger step than you think it is.

And why are you afraid to say what adjustments you think he needs to make? Are you, by chance, related to Fabiani?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by whitmm

No I understand what you are saying just fine. You ignored what I said. From the 30,000 foot view, as in factoring in all levels of play, the change isn't very big. When you look at just the major league level, where everyone is already best of the best, those gaps are a lot bigger than what you think.



11 hits to go from a .230 to a .260 hitter doesn't sound like a lot. But when you really break it down, flipping 11 outs into hits is a lot harder and a lot bigger than you are making it out to be. Going from a 1-2 WAR, role player, to a 3-4 WAR, good player, is a much larger step than you think it is.

"I understand" followed by a whole post showing you don't understand.

I'll say it again slowly. The. Adjustment. Is. Very. Hard.

You can't possibly be that dense.

You guys want to argue with me so much that you even argue when we agree. It's comical.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by whitmm

But we were told that he had nothing left to prove in the minors and being sent down would not help him at all.

i agree with this.

AAA pitching is pretty terrible especially compared to MLB

[KhalDrogo]

So much projection!

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

"I understand" followed by a whole post showing you don't understand.

I'll say it again slowly. The. Adjustment. Is. Very. Hard.

You can't possibly be that dense.

You guys want to argue with me so much that you even argue when we agree. It's comical.

No, you don't understand. You keep saying it's this small adjustment. It's not. And it's not one adjustment he needs to make, it's multiple.

It's making corrections to fix launch angle. It's improving pitch recognition and plate discipline. It's improving his fielding ability.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by whitmm

No, you don't understand. You keep saying it's this small adjustment. It's not. And it's not one adjustment he needs to make, it's multiple.

It's making corrections to fix launch angle. It's improving pitch recognition and plate discipline. It's improving his fielding ability.

Where does the boulder fit in?

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Where does the boulder fit in?

It's only a tiny adjustment to move that boulder one inch, you just have to make giant changes in how you approach things to move it. You just have to completely change your approach to trying to move it.

Yup, sounds like that task is a lot bigger than just a slight movement

[Zauron]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

While the thread disappeared for a second...it started seeing some light action today. The lawyer hasn't figured out that he's the gasoline to this barely lit match. Notice when he shows up, the thread lights up like the 4th of July.

Now I have Katy Perry's Firework in my head, thanks

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by whitmm

No, you don't understand. You keep saying it's this small adjustment. It's not. And it's not one adjustment he needs to make, it's multiple.



It's making corrections to fix launch angle. It's improving pitch recognition and plate discipline. It's improving his fielding ability.

Whew, glad the blowout experts are on the case. We should probably let the Reds know.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i agree with this.

AAA pitching is pretty terrible especially compared to MLB

Well, when you're hitting puts you as one of the worst offensive players in the league, maybe a step down in competition to regain confidence would be a good thing.

When you're tinkering with a swing, which is what the team should be doing with him, doing it against lesser competition and in a less pressure filled environment isn't a bad thing. The Blue Jays sent Alek Manoah down to rookie ball earlier this year to work on mechanics.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by whitmm

It's only a tiny adjustment to move that boulder one inch, you just have to make giant changes in how you approach things to move it. You just have to completely change your approach to trying to move it.



Yup, sounds like that task is a lot bigger than just a slight movement

Just keep posting. Every time you do you prove you can't comprehend the difference between a big adjustment and a hard one. It comical.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Just keep posting. Every time you do you prive you can't comprehend the difference between a big adjustment and a hard one. It comical.

You'e so confident that he's just a small adjustment away from being good to great hitter, so why don't you tell us what it is that needs to do?

This question has nothing to do with it being hard. You want to keep pushing this idea that it's such a small gap between mediocre and good.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Well, when you're hitting puts you as one of the worst offensive players in the league, maybe a step down in competition to regain confidence would be a good thing.



When you're tinkering with a swing, which is what the team should be doing with him, doing it against lesser competition and in a less pressure filled environment isn't a bad thing. The Blue Jays sent Alek Manoah down to rookie ball earlier this year to work on mechanics.

You yourself said his issue was pitch recognition. He didn't have that problem against the lesser pitchers in AAA. So the only way to get better at it seeing major league pitching. I think you don't know baseball as well as you claim.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

You yourself said his issue was pitch recognition. He didn't have that problem against the lesser pitchers in AAA. So the only way to get better at it seeing major league pitching. I think you don't know baseball as well as you claim.

Not when you're working on making other adjustments to your swing. Information overload is absolutely a thing.

And you've bashed the whole coaching staff here before

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

It's not just Elly. The approach of the whole team has been terrible. It seems like a coaching thing. I'm so sick of everyone, even the guys performing decently, watching 2 straight fastballs right down the middle and getting down 0-2, then trying to succeed on a bunch of junk out of the zone the next 3 pitches. They can't send the whole team down to the minors. But they can get rid of coaches.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

Seems like a terrible idea to continue to let these people working with Elly day in and day out if you think they all need to be fired

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Not when you're working on making other adjustments to your swing. Information overload is absolutely a thing.

And you've bashed the whole coaching staff here before



Seems like a terrible idea to continue to let these people working with Elly day in and day out if you think they all need to be fired

The fact that I think the Reds coaching staff is terrible is irrelevant to the fact that Elly needs to face major league pitching to learn to recognize major league pitches.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

The fact that I think the Reds coaching staff is terrible is irrelevant to the fact that Elly needs to face major league pitching to learn to recognize major league pitches.

It's very relevant. You have terrible coaches working with him on learning to recognize pitches, you get terrible results. There's more to it than just facing pitching.

It's also more than just pitch recognition that he needs to work on.

And if you're saying that it's pointless to go back to AAA because the pitching is worse, what are your thoughts on every saying he needs to put in a bunch of work in the Dominican this off season? Most of that is not equivalent to major league pitching

[BBases31]

I will say I haven't seen someone go down looking to a middle middle fastball like he just did in quite a while. https://www.mlb.com/gameday/716435/play/9

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by BBases31

I will say I haven't seen someone go down looking to a middle middle fastball like he just did in quite a while. https://www.mlb.com/gameday/716435/play/9

Three straight looking. Oof

I think it's pretty obvious that he's so focused on looking for the breaking stuff that he's struggling to react to the fastball.

[KhalDrogo]

Slugging .176 this month and playing most days for a team competing for a playoff spot. Unbelievable.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

The fact that I think the Reds coaching staff is terrible is irrelevant to the fact that Elly needs to face major league pitching to learn to recognize major league pitches.

Have you ever faced the big league pitching machines. They are pretty legit and mimic arm slot, spinrate, velocity etc. while randomizing between. Pitch Types.


Anyways I think part of the issue is stating he just needs to learn to recognize major league pitching, while I think there needs to be some willingness to consider the fact he simply can’t do that. There’s no shame in that, it’s really really hard and it’s pretty unfair how hyped he got. But at this point in time I’m operating under the assumption he can’t hit major league pitching and see if he’ll prove me wrong in the future rather then assuming he can once he makes a few adjustments