2024-25 NBA MVP Thread

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Sticks33

That was an interesting read. But I wonder how many of those guys are actually voters?

At least 3. Bill, Mahoney, and Pina have all gotten votes previous.

At one point the Ringer had 6 voters.

[jcardstore]

The Athletic usually gets a bunch

[The Losing Edge]

Athletic had article this week on MVP as well with a bunch of the older heads (at least from my perspective they seem to be) like Vardon, Aldridge, Katz, & Amick. All of their comments were like its too close to call, still time left in season. I thought those guys would be fully behind Shai at this point.

[The Losing Edge]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

At least 3. Bill, Mahoney, and Pina have all gotten votes previous.

At one point the Ringer had 6 voters.

Think they still do, Seerat, O'connell, and Russillo? but he just pods with Simmons.

[cdub6238]

It's amazing to think...the Clippers gave up 5...5..5 1st round picks...and Shai...

For Paul George..

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by cdub6238

It's amazing to think...the Clippers gave up 5...5..5 1st round picks...and Shai...

For Paul George..

PG was a great 2 way player at the time.


His falloff this year since joining Mr. Never Work Again needs to be studied.

[yiguiri2002]

Also, I don't think OKC thought SGA would be this good. I'm not sure even SGA thought he'll be this good.

[Above the Rim]

My son was talking stats this morning. Kind of an eye opener:

SGA -
Overall shooting % .528
3 pt. % .376
Assists/game 6.2
Rebounds/game 5.1
Free Throw attempts/game 9

Jokic -
Overall shooting % .575
3 pt. % .412
Assists/game 10.3
Rebounds/game 12.8
Free Throw attempts/game 6.2

Shai may win voters hearts for this years MVP, but Jokic appears all around better.

[Above the Rim]

When OKC is without Shai, their total team rating is minus .4 (still top 5 in NBA)

When Denver is without Jokic, their total team rating is minus 9.4 (2nd worst in NBA)

[ninjacookies]

"The 4Runner clearly makes its case as the 911 GT3's superior based on its ability to comfortably seat 5. " - Jeremy Clarkson, probably


*Yokerbois using 7 footer rebounding metrics as a talking point*

[Jwax13]

Originally Posted by Above the Rim

My son was talking stats this morning. Kind of an eye opener:

SGA -
Overall shooting % .528
3 pt. % .376
Assists/game 6.2
Rebounds/game 5.1
Free Throw attempts/game 9

Jokic -
Overall shooting % .575
3 pt. % .412
Assists/game 10.3
Rebounds/game 12.8
Free Throw attempts/game 6.2

Shai may win voters hearts for this years MVP, but Jokic appears all around better.

Comparing overall shooting percentage between a 7 footer and a PG is actually hysterical.

[Above the Rim]

Historically, Centers have won 30 MVP's. Point and Shooting guards have won 19 combined. Why is that? Generally, Centers have won more MVP's because they are deemed more valuable. One of the reasons they are more valuable is the fact that they generally get more rebounds.

On the other hand, guards should generally get more assists, and have a higher 3 pt. shooting percentage. That is more their game and comfort zone.

I simply put forth most of the first looked, more obvious stats you see in a box score.

If you still want to discount rebounds as a component to most valuable, ok. Lets then look at the two point guard dominant stats - Assists and 3 pt. percentage. Jokic takes both.

[ninjacookies]

The last center to win the award prior to Joker/Embiid was Shaq...in 2000. Rest littered throughout the 70's through 90's.

Essentially, they dominated the dead ball era where scores were lower and teams leaned more on their traditional bigs to impose their physicality to win games.

If anything, the modern period has been dominated by guards, and most recently (moneyball era) point-forwards. Jokic just so happens to play more like a point forward than a center as evidenced by his usage in all facets of the offense.



However, what the Joker guys fail to present in their argument is the other half of the game. You know, defense. Where Shai absolutely dominates him by virtually every advanced defensive metric available.

Now if Shai didn't play defense at an All-NBA level, then this would absolutely be a race. However, this is not the case. And when you factor in how dominant SGA's been offensively, it's a no-brainer. And really not even close if people are being honest.

It's just that the league's been so offensively driven and tailored towards inflated point totals that casuals don't care much about defense as a whole. We live in a tiktok era where everyone gets wooed by gaudy triple double lines and seemingly nothing else.

[Sticks33]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

The last center to win the award prior to Joker/Embiid was Shaq...in 2000. Rest littered throughout the 70's through 90's.

Essentially, they dominated the dead ball era where scores were lower and teams leaned more on their traditional bigs to impose their physicality to win games.

If anything, the modern period has been dominated by guards, and most recently (moneyball era) point-forwards. Jokic just so happens to play more like a point forward than a center as evidenced by his usage in all facets of the offense.



However, what the Joker guys fail to present in their argument is the other half of the game. You know, defense. Where Shai absolutely dominates him by virtually every advanced defensive metric available.

Now if Shai didn't play defense at an All-NBA level, then this would absolutely be a race. However, this is not the case. And when you factor in how dominant SGA's been offensively, it's a no-brainer. And really not even close if people are being honest.

It's just that the league's been so offensively driven and tailored towards inflated point totals that casuals don't care much about defense as a whole. We live in a tiktok era where everyone gets wooed by gaudy triple double lines and seemingly nothing else.

Alright, Ninja, how much do you have wagered on the SGA mvp? Gotta be some as I haven’t seen you this adamant in a while!

I don’t have a pony in this race but I think it’s closer than you think. SGA has it all over Joker on defense, no denying it. But the on/off court numbers for Joker are ridiculous. Denver would be a lottery team without him.

[kipgen]

The whole, "Jokic doesnt play defense" thing is a big meme



Left is Jokic, right is SGA

[boxbuster7]

Shai is -850
Jokic is +500

Shai is going to win mvp

[Zedlaw]

What am I supposed to be looking at here? Seems like SGA is great at blocking and Jokic is great at rebounding. I’m a little weary about positional bias. Are we saying Jokic and SGA are defensive equals by craftedDPM? But at the same time Jokic is the 19th rated center and SGA the fifth rated guard. Jokic has his limitations but he’ll never rate out as a poor defender. The guy is huge and cares and is smart. He wont thwart an A level move but you’ll never get any cheap ones. He’s an obstacle, not an enforcer.

[boxbuster7]

MVP isn't a defensive award

name the last great defensive player to win mvp

without looking it up I'll say KD?

***looked it up - giannis

Embiid shouldn't have won last year so I can't count that

[kipgen]

Shai will win MVP but it won't have anything to do with statistical superiority by Shai, especially not because of defensive statistical superiority

It'll be almost entirely narrative driven and there's nothing wrong with that because many MVPs are and have been narrative driven

[boxbuster7]

What is the narrative?

He is the best scorer in the league and the best player on one of the best teams

Doesn't seem like much of a narrative to me

[kipgen]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

What is the narrative?

He is the best scorer in the league and the best player on one of the best teams

Doesn't seem like much of a narrative to me

He's the star player on an OKC team resurrected from the ashes of the KD/Westbrook days and the product of a giant, now successful rebuild who finished second in MVP voting last year

Conversely, this would be Jokic's fourth on not as interesting of a storyline

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

MVP isn't a defensive award

name the last great defensive player to win mvp

without looking it up I'll say KD?

***looked it up - giannis

Embiid shouldn't have won last year so I can't count that

Embiid didn’t win it last year, jokic did.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

Embiid didn’t win it last year, jokic did.

you know what I meant

2 years ago

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by kipgen

He's the star player on an OKC team resurrected from the ashes of the KD/Westbrook days and the product of a giant, now successful rebuild who finished second in MVP voting last year

Conversely, this would be Jokic's fourth on not as interesting of a storyline

I guess but he still deserves it unlike embiid for example

[kipgen]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

I guess but he still deserves it unlike embiid for example

The main thing this reminds me of is D Rose's 2010 MVP, in which he won it not because he was superior statistically to Lebron, but because they were close enough in a statistical sense that D Rose's significance to the league and the Bulls was enough for voters to give him the edge on a narrative basis