MMA Discussion Thread- Fight Night/UFC/PPV

[tier1dc]

Bones will test positive before the end of January.

Nunes was terrifying tonight. Machine.

[Cavaliercards]

Jones needs to stay clean this time. He tests clean after this fight and his legacy is helped, he comes up dirty and the UFC needs to be rid of him.

[jbrandonw]

I was a Jon Jones fan back in the day, so it's nice to see him get his belt back. He basically fought a perfect fight. I can't help but cringe every time he talks about God though. He would do so much better if he just embraced the bad guy "heel" persona, and stopped with the obviously fake choir boy act. I hope he does right this time, but I wouldn't be surprised if something happens.

Nunes did cyborg the same way she did rousey, and she definitely deserves to be the first womens champ champ.

[CC_123]

Amanda Nunes is hands down the greatest womens fighter ever. I don't think there can even be a debate about it. Beating Ronda in 48 seconds and Cyborg in 51 seconds is crazy.

Also, being a huge Jon Jones fan, I am glad to see him with the strap again. I am hoping he stays clean this time around, learned from his mistakes, and builds his legacy back up. He is the greatest fighter we've ever seen in the octagon, but also the greatest fighter at beating himself. I am hoping DC doesn't run from Jones now. In my opinion DC is the most protected and paper champion in the UFC today. They toss easy fights his way far too often, in my opinion. He also knows he cannot beat Jones, but he will never be mentioned as the GOAT without doing so.

[cowboyzqna]

Nunes is a bad bahhhhhhd woman!


Jones is a great fighter... and a deplorable human being. Really can't believe he went right back into the "god is grand" bs. Just stop man. Good people don't do the things he done (don't really need to list examples... Everyone knows them)


It's hard to believe but the card would have been better without dopey on it. This night took alott more away from mma than it gave... and if the card would have ended with Nunes it would be a different story.


6 months or less till bones does something stupid.

[Magickyak]

Not UFC, but did anyone catch the PFL Championship event on Monday? Some pretty good fights there, particularly Sean O'Connell & Vinny Magalhaes. It was just too bad the night ended with the Ray Cooper loss. He had a ton of people there supporting him, was hoping they'd get to celebrate.

[ballhawkdawk]

Can’t fail two drug tests and serve suspensions for those failures and be considered the GOAT. Cormier is the GOAT. If we’re talking about the best, which is a different discussion, then Jones is still the best 205er ever IMO, but not the best fighter. Best fighter ever is Demetrious Johnson.

[CC_123]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Can’t fail two drug tests and serve suspensions for those failures and be considered the GOAT. Cormier is the GOAT. If we’re talking about the best, which is a different discussion, then Jones is still the best 205er ever IMO, but not the best fighter. Best fighter ever is Demetrious Johnson.

Cormier cannot be considered the GOAT until he is able to beat Jones. Everyone who paid attention to the details of the Jone suspensions knows that Jones passed every test prior to the last Cormier fight, but failed the one the night before the fight for an oral steroid? Nobody is that stupid to take something that wouldn't assist them in the slightest on such short notice. There is also a reason why he wasn't suspended for a full two years on that instance and it's because even the USADA believed that he did not knowingly take the substance.

The first time was a male enhancement that he was taking. He just wasn't careful enough when checking the ingredients that were included. I don't think he has ever knowingly taken PEDs, but Im probably in the minority in that. Now, some of his other instances were completely uncalled for.

But I definitely think he is the GOAT. He has never been beaten by anyone but himself. Until Cormier beats Jones, he will never be considered the GOAT. And honestly, I don't think Cormier should be anyways. The UFC has fed him so many cupcake fights to build his legacy is crazy, especially as of late.

I'd take the Jones resume over the Cormier resume personally.

Jones has beaten:

Alexander Gustafsson (x2)
Daniel Cormier (x2)
Glover Texeria
Chael Sonnen
Vitor Belfort
Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida
Rampage Jackson
Shogun Rua
Ryan Bader

That is an incredible list of fighters to beat. There is a reason why he has never been beaten.

[ballhawkdawk]

Jones been pissing hot left and right and you buy the BS excuses? The sex pills is a plausible excuse to you??? Cmon man. There are shady politics behind the scenes that allow Jon to cheat the suspensions. UFC needs him. No one else is failing tests at this rate other than dudes like Barnett who have a long history of use. You know he hid under the ring at Jackson’s to avoid a urine test? He doesn’t even deny taking roids.. just says they aren’t why he wins. Even pissed hot again before the second Gus fight, so they move the entire event to avoid NSAC. Same reason Barry Bonds can’t be the GOAT is the same reason Jon can’t. If Jon was clean and had that resume, he’d be the GOAT, but that’s not the case. His resume is void because of multiple failed tests.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by CC_123

Cormier cannot be considered the GOAT until he is able to beat Jones. Everyone who paid attention to the details of the Jone suspensions knows that Jones passed every test prior to the last Cormier fight, but failed the one the night before the fight for an oral steroid? Nobody is that stupid to take something that wouldn't assist them in the slightest on such short notice. There is also a reason why he wasn't suspended for a full two years on that instance and it's because even the USADA believed that he did not knowingly take the substance.

The first time was a male enhancement that he was taking. He just wasn't careful enough when checking the ingredients that were included. I don't think he has ever knowingly taken PEDs, but Im probably in the minority in that. Now, some of his other instances were completely uncalled for.

But I definitely think he is the GOAT. He has never been beaten by anyone but himself. Until Cormier beats Jones, he will never be considered the GOAT. And honestly, I don't think Cormier should be anyways. The UFC has fed him so many cupcake fights to build his legacy is crazy, especially as of late.

I'd take the Jones resume over the Cormier resume personally.

Jones has beaten:

Alexander Gustafsson (x2)
Daniel Cormier (x2)
Glover Texeria
Chael Sonnen
Vitor Belfort
Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida
Rampage Jackson
Shogun Rua
Ryan Bader

That is an incredible list of fighters to beat. There is a reason why he has never been beaten.

whoa whoa whoa....what??

Since the first Jones loss...here is cormiers run:

Anthony Johnson
Gustafsson
Anderson Silva-because jones pops again
A.Johnson again
Jones 2-a no contest by the way...you can call it a win all you want...he tested positive for steroids/banned substances...it is not a Win for Jones any longer
Oezdimir
Stipe-only the winningest HW champ of all time at that point
D.Lewis

im not seeing too many cupcakes in there??

and yea Jones has a nice resume...but to be fair he beat alot of those guys after their primes so his resume looks amazing but the timing of them is not spectacular...he just has a bunch of legends on his list..

not like DC has a bunch of scrubs on his resume last i checked

Bigfoot
Josh Barnett
Frank Mir
Roy Nelson
Hendo
AJ x2
Gustafsson
Anderson Silva
Stipe Miocic
Derrick Lewis


i know many people (and i understand the argument) still think DC cant ever be brought up as GOAT cuz he "lost" to JJ 2x...but the other side of that is Jones has tested positive multiple times now...to me that basically tarnishes his whole career...not just the two fights it happened for...how do we possibly know he wasnt using all the way back in Shogun fight to win title...we just dont...and we dont know that for anyone to a degree...but we also dont have any positive tests for DC to question it...we have multiple occasions to point to for Jones

to me if you dont want to put DC as the GOAT...whatever...but Jones definitely cant be the GOAT at this point any more either in my opinion...the guy has multiple drug/steroid related suspensions!! to me every fight he has in tainted and questionable at this point...

and to me DC gets a massive bump for going back to HW and stopping the longest reigning UFC HW champ of all time in the first round....that is huge...Jones never did that and hasnt even tried to do it to this point...even though everyone has been asking for it for years...

DC is the guy who won the LHW title in jones' absence(his own fault)...defended that belt multiple times...then went and won the HW belt and has defended that as well...all in like the same 3-4yr window in which Jones has fought like 3x total and had suspensions and all of that...

[CC_123]

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

whoa whoa whoa....what??

Since the first Jones loss...here is cormiers run:

Anthony Johnson
Gustafsson
Anderson Silva-because jones pops again
A.Johnson again
Jones 2-a no contest by the way...you can call it a win all you want...he tested positive for steroids/banned substances...it is not a Win for Jones any longer
Oezdimir
Stipe-only the winningest HW champ of all time at that point
D.Lewis

im not seeing too many cupcakes in there??

and yea Jones has a nice resume...but to be fair he beat alot of those guys after their primes so his resume looks amazing but the timing of them is not spectacular...he just has a bunch of legends on his list..

not like DC has a bunch of scrubs on his resume last i checked

Bigfoot
Josh Barnett
Frank Mir
Roy Nelson
Hendo
AJ x2
Gustafsson
Anderson Silva
Stipe Miocic
Derrick Lewis


i know many people (and i understand the argument) still think DC cant ever be brought up as GOAT cuz he "lost" to JJ 2x...but the other side of that is Jones has tested positive multiple times now...to me that basically tarnishes his whole career...not just the two fights it happened for...how do we possibly know he wasnt using all the way back in Shogun fight to win title...we just dont...and we dont know that for anyone to a degree...but we also dont have any positive tests for DC to question it...we have multiple occasions to point to for Jones

to me if you dont want to put DC as the GOAT...whatever...but Jones definitely cant be the GOAT at this point any more either in my opinion...the guy has multiple drug/steroid related suspensions!! to me every fight he has in tainted and questionable at this point...

and to me DC gets a massive bump for going back to HW and stopping the longest reigning UFC HW champ of all time in the first round....that is huge...Jones never did that and hasnt even tried to do it to this point...even though everyone has been asking for it for years...

DC is the guy who won the LHW title in jones' absence(his own fault)...defended that belt multiple times...then went and won the HW belt and has defended that as well...all in like the same 3-4yr window in which Jones has fought like 3x total and had suspensions and all of that...

Again, you clearly haven't followed the Jones failed drug tests closely.

First one was due to a male enhancement that he was taking. He provided proof of it. The male enhancement had a banned substance within it, he didn't take a steroid. The second one he passed EVERY drug test until the one the night before the fight? Doesn't that seem suspicious to you? Why would someone take an oral steroid just the day before a fight? It isn't going to benefit you in the slightest. And again, even the USADA came out and said that they believe he didn't knowingly take any PEDs, hence why he never served an extended suspension. He and his team have just been very lackadaisical with checking the supplements he is taking.

As for Cormier and his resume, Anthony Johnson isn't a world beater by any means. He got the Cormier fight because he was a draw after a couple quick KO's. Anderson Silva was FAR past his prime when he fought Cormier and did it on short notice and still almost won. Roy Nelson isn't a top tier competitor in the UFC. He had zero cardio and is one of the worst heavyweight fighters of all time in the UFC. Mir was far from his prime at the time that they fought. Volkan again is a guy who never fought anyone and wasn't ready to fight for the title. The UFC handed Cormier a win with that fight. Derrick Lewis even said he wasn't ready for a title fight, but the UFC spoon fed Cormier with that fight. The ONLY fights Cormier has taken that haven't been spoon fed to him are Stipe, Jones twice (which he lost both), Gustafsson, and Hendo. And yet, Cormier is ducking Stipe and hasn't given him the rematch for the heavyweight belt because he knows he got lucky. Cormier is hands down the most protected champion in the UFC and is a paper champion. The UFC has continuously handed him easy fights aside from a few. I'd take the resume that Jones has over the resume Cormier has every day of the week.

[BestRCs]

Originally Posted by CC_123

Again, you clearly haven't followed the Jones failed drug tests closely.

First one was due to a male enhancement that he was taking. He provided proof of it. The male enhancement had a banned substance within it, he didn't take a steroid. The second one he passed EVERY drug test until the one the night before the fight? Doesn't that seem suspicious to you? Why would someone take an oral steroid just the day before a fight? It isn't going to benefit you in the slightest. And again, even the USADA came out and said that they believe he didn't knowingly take any PEDs, hence why he never served an extended suspension. He and his team have just been very lackadaisical with checking the supplements he is taking.

As for Cormier and his resume, Anthony Johnson isn't a world beater by any means. He got the Cormier fight because he was a draw after a couple quick KO's. Anderson Silva was FAR past his prime when he fought Cormier and did it on short notice and still almost won. Roy Nelson isn't a top tier competitor in the UFC. He had zero cardio and is one of the worst heavyweight fighters of all time in the UFC. Mir was far from his prime at the time that they fought. Volkan again is a guy who never fought anyone and wasn't ready to fight for the title. The UFC handed Cormier a win with that fight. Derrick Lewis even said he wasn't ready for a title fight, but the UFC spoon fed Cormier with that fight. The ONLY fights Cormier has taken that haven't been spoon fed to him are Stipe, Jones twice (which he lost both), Gustafsson, and Hendo. And yet, Cormier is ducking Stipe and hasn't given him the rematch for the heavyweight belt because he knows he got lucky. Cormier is hands down the most protected champion in the UFC and is a paper champion. The UFC has continuously handed him easy fights aside from a few. I'd take the resume that Jones has over the resume Cormier has every day of the week.

This is absurd.

I get putting JOnes over DC I'm not going to argue that.

DC fought everyone in front of him it's not his fault that the LHW and HW division suck.

He beat Barnett and Stipe both very solid and outside of the Anderson fight which he admits he was starstruck and the Gus fight (which he won) he's handled everyone he's faced pretty soundly.

He ragged dolled Hendo ( i know he was old but no one was doing THAT to him) he beat Rumble I get he's more of a quick ko artist but no one was beating him outside of DC through Rumble's hot run. He crumbled Stipe and he outclassed Barnett out the gate early in his career.

Give credit where credit is due. DC is a baaaaad man.... he just can't beat Jones.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by CC_123

Again, you clearly haven't followed the Jones failed drug tests closely.

First one was due to a male enhancement that he was taking. He provided proof of it. The male enhancement had a banned substance within it, he didn't take a steroid. The second one he passed EVERY drug test until the one the night before the fight? Doesn't that seem suspicious to you? Why would someone take an oral steroid just the day before a fight? It isn't going to benefit you in the slightest. And again, even the USADA came out and said that they believe he didn't knowingly take any PEDs, hence why he never served an extended suspension. He and his team have just been very lackadaisical with checking the supplements he is taking.

As for Cormier and his resume, Anthony Johnson isn't a world beater by any means. He got the Cormier fight because he was a draw after a couple quick KO's. Anderson Silva was FAR past his prime when he fought Cormier and did it on short notice and still almost won. Roy Nelson isn't a top tier competitor in the UFC. He had zero cardio and is one of the worst heavyweight fighters of all time in the UFC. Mir was far from his prime at the time that they fought. Volkan again is a guy who never fought anyone and wasn't ready to fight for the title. The UFC handed Cormier a win with that fight. Derrick Lewis even said he wasn't ready for a title fight, but the UFC spoon fed Cormier with that fight. The ONLY fights Cormier has taken that haven't been spoon fed to him are Stipe, Jones twice (which he lost both), Gustafsson, and Hendo. And yet, Cormier is ducking Stipe and hasn't given him the rematch for the heavyweight belt because he knows he got lucky. Cormier is hands down the most protected champion in the UFC and is a paper champion. The UFC has continuously handed him easy fights aside from a few. I'd take the resume that Jones has over the resume Cormier has every day of the week.

of course i know that the first one was male enhancement and all that...if you want to go ahead and just blindly believe everything that Team Jones comes up with to skirt the system then that is on you...i tend to think if you are coming up with repeated "tainted substance" defense that more than likely you are actually just using and got careless or didnt think you would get caught...

i think that for most everyone that has popped...i mean so many fighters come out and say how they know all these other fighters are using blah blah...i tend to think they prob know a little better than you or me...they prob know of guys in their own camps that use...so they know its a real thing that is sport wide...but whatever...again if you want to believe everyone that has ever tested positive then that is your right to do so(cuz basically that is what you are saying...since like 90% of the guys who pop use the same tired "tainted supplements" defense

as for all the easy fights you bring up i just disagree...i mean AJ was blasting through everyone in front of him...he DEMOLISHED Gus and Glover...while Jones went to Decision with both....DC went to Decision with Gus...AJ blew him out of the cage...

Jones fights Bader...basically a non-factor that lost all his big fights and then went to Bellator and is a champ there

Jones fights Glover...basically a non-factor/over-hyped his whole UFC career

Jones fights Rashad/Rampage/Belfort/Lyoto/Chael which to me is a mix of guys past their prime or guys who are clear MWs(or both)...BUT these guys are all HOFers with huge names so they all look great on his resume...which is fine

Jones fights OSP...this is far worse than any fight DC has had in the UFC and Jones arguably looked his worst in this fight-and many speculate that this may be the "clean jones" since he was coming off suspension...then he didnt like his performance so he went back to it and popped again at ufc200(just a thought...not stating this as fact or anything)

Prior to the belt he didnt really fight anyone of value or importance either...Vera/Matyushenko/Bonnar and some others...nothing there but thats fine...was building the resume...

beats Shogun...crushed him...tough fight vs Gus(and just had rematch where he won far easier) and beat DC the first time in a UD...but prob closer than some remember...the 2nd DC fight is a NC...just like his fight vs Hamill is indeed a Loss...those are just the facts

and as for "ducking" stipe...i find this to be flat hilarious to be honest...DC stated for months/year now how he was done at 40yrs old...sure he might fight more now since he had minor injury and didnt get 2 fights like i think he wanted....but if you have one fight left who in the world is passing up a potential Brock fight...it doesnt mean he is ducking(which is just dumb to begin with since he flattened him in minutes)...it means the guy wants to go out and make the most cash he can before retiring....

Jones is way more guilty of ducking DC at HW than DC is of ducking ANYONE ever...since Jones seems to want none of that and wants DC where he feels comfortable most...LHW...

Both have things you can point to for weakness in the overall resume...no denying that(at least from my POV)...to say DC is a paper champ? is ridiculous for many reasons...

Jones didnt get stripped cuz of injury or something...jones was stripped due to failed drug tests...the fact that you think those were all just completely false and total flukes doesnt change a thing...he was caught with illegal substances/steroids in his system...period...DC then fought and smashed everyone put in front of him for like 2yrs while JJ was repeatedly out....then he went to HW where Miocic was in the midst of the best HW run EVER...and he smashed him in the 1st round!! you say he got lucky? i dont really understand that line of thinking at all...but whatever...he smoked the dude that holds the record for most HW defenses...and he did it soundly...then they gave him another fight and he smashed thru Beast....you act like there are so many more guys at HW at the time that deserved a shot over Beast?? who exactly?? and it was a rushed fight for both guys to save a card if i remember correctly...or not "save" a card but to have a legit Main Event on an upcoming card...Lewis was on a streak and just beat Ngannou who was prob who the UFC wanted to push but he put up the worst fight ever....Stipe just got knocked out...maybe he should have got the rematch...but idk if the timeline even worked for that...so again...paper champ? how exactly was he that?

[CC_123]

I call DC a paper champion because thats what I think he is. He's been a protected champion, especially at HW. After beating Stipe he was handed two easy fights that the UFC knew he would win. Lewis came off the luckiest win of his career prior to the title fight. He had zero cardio for it and was not in a position career wise to be ready for the title fight.

Also, saying that list of guys for Jones was "past their prime", here are their records at the time they met:

Matyushenko was 24-4 (fight occurred in 2010, he went on to fight until 2014)
Bader was 12-0 (fight occurred in 2011, he has lost 4 times since losing to Jones)
Shogun was 19-4 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and winning. 4-1 in last 5 fights)
Rampage was 32-8 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and has won 6 of his last 8)
Machida was 17-2 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and on a 3 fight win streak)
Evans was 17-1-1 (fight occurred in 2012, he retired, and has come back and is NOW way past his prime)
Belfort was 21-9 (fight occurred in 2012, he went on to win three in a row after losing to Jones)
Sonnen was 28-13-1 (fight occurred in 2013. I will give you this one, but it wouldn't have even happened if Hendo didn't get injured)
Gustafsson was 15-1 the first time, 18-4 the second time
Texeira was 22-2 (fight occurred in 2014, I will also give you this one. He isn't the greatest fighter in the world)
Cormier was 15-0 in 2015, 19-1 in 2017
OSP was 19-7 (I will give you this one as well. UFC gave Jones a tune up fight here)

But to say that all of the future UFC HOFers were past their prime is laughable. Jones RAN THROUGH the LHW division with authority in a majority of the guys still in their prime.

Again, like I said, I will give DC the fights against Stipe (which he won with the help of a MASSIVE eye poke), Hendo, Gustafsson, and Jones, but other than that the UFC has spoon fed him some easy competition that they knew would likely result in a DC victory, especially as of late with Volkan and Lewis, neither of which were ready to be fighting for the title. I also don't think Johnson is a "resume" guy. He was a boxer with zero cardio. If he didn't KO someone in the first 4 minutes of a round, he was struggling. He also never beat anyone noteworthy aside from Gustafsson and Bader.

Lastly, Jones isn't ducking DC at Heavyweight. Jones has nothing to prove against DC. He is 2-0 against him. DC needs to prove something against Jones and the MMA world, so why would Jones go up to Heavyweight? Jones even said he isn't going to be that guy who is out for vengeance to move up a weight class just to take away the HW title from Cormier. Cormier is the one that wants to declare himself a "champ champ", but until he beats Jones, he will NEVER be that regardless of what the record books show.

Clearly you are a DC fan and I am more a fan of Jones. I stand by my paperweight champion remarks until he fights and BEATS Jones and gives Stipe his rematch. Jones, in my eyes, is the GOAT and has the resume to back it.

[BestRCs]

Originally Posted by CC_123

I call DC a paper champion because thats what I think he is. He's been a protected champion, especially at HW. After beating Stipe he was handed two easy fights that the UFC knew he would win. Lewis came off the luckiest win of his career prior to the title fight. He had zero cardio for it and was not in a position career wise to be ready for the title fight.

Also, saying that list of guys for Jones was "past their prime", here are their records at the time they met:

Matyushenko was 24-4 (fight occurred in 2010, he went on to fight until 2014)
Bader was 12-0 (fight occurred in 2011, he has lost 4 times since losing to Jones)
Shogun was 19-4 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and winning. 4-1 in last 5 fights)
Rampage was 32-8 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and has won 6 of his last 8)
Machida was 17-2 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and on a 3 fight win streak)
Evans was 17-1-1 (fight occurred in 2012, he retired, and has come back and is NOW way past his prime)
Belfort was 21-9 (fight occurred in 2012, he went on to win three in a row after losing to Jones)
Sonnen was 28-13-1 (fight occurred in 2013. I will give you this one, but it wouldn't have even happened if Hendo didn't get injured)
Gustafsson was 15-1 the first time, 18-4 the second time
Texeira was 22-2 (fight occurred in 2014, I will also give you this one. He isn't the greatest fighter in the world)
Cormier was 15-0 in 2015, 19-1 in 2017
OSP was 19-7 (I will give you this one as well. UFC gave Jones a tune up fight here)

But to say that all of the future UFC HOFers were past their prime is laughable. Jones RAN THROUGH the LHW division with authority in a majority of the guys still in their prime.

Again, like I said, I will give DC the fights against Stipe (which he won with the help of a MASSIVE eye poke), Hendo, Gustafsson, and Jones, but other than that the UFC has spoon fed him some easy competition that they knew would likely result in a DC victory, especially as of late with Volkan and Lewis, neither of which were ready to be fighting for the title. I also don't think Johnson is a "resume" guy. He was a boxer with zero cardio. If he didn't KO someone in the first 4 minutes of a round, he was struggling. He also never beat anyone noteworthy aside from Gustafsson and Bader.

Lastly, Jones isn't ducking DC at Heavyweight. Jones has nothing to prove against DC. He is 2-0 against him. DC needs to prove something against Jones and the MMA world, so why would Jones go up to Heavyweight? Jones even said he isn't going to be that guy who is out for vengeance to move up a weight class just to take away the HW title from Cormier. Cormier is the one that wants to declare himself a "champ champ", but until he beats Jones, he will NEVER be that regardless of what the record books show.

Clearly you are a DC fan and I am more a fan of Jones. I stand by my paperweight champion remarks until he fights and BEATS Jones and gives Stipe his rematch. Jones, in my eyes, is the GOAT and has the resume to back it.

By saying "been" it sounds like you have quite a list.

Who exactly has he been protected from?

[cowboyzqna]

UFC is coming to Kansas!!

Going Not blown away by the card but will still be a fun event.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by CC_123

Again, you clearly haven't followed the Jones failed drug tests closely.

First one was due to a male enhancement that he was taking. He provided proof of it. The male enhancement had a banned substance within it, he didn't take a steroid. The second one he passed EVERY drug test until the one the night before the fight? Doesn't that seem suspicious to you? Why would someone take an oral steroid just the day before a fight? It isn't going to benefit you in the slightest. And again, even the USADA came out and said that they believe he didn't knowingly take any PEDs, hence why he never served an extended suspension. He and his team have just been very lackadaisical with checking the supplements he is taking.

Barry Bonds never failed a drug test. Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test. Alex Rodriguez never failed a drug test. You know what all three have in common? Confirmed PED use. And you think Jon Jones only got caught MULTIPLE TIMES because he got lazy about where he buys his creatine??? I don't make a habit of storing articles on Jon Jones, but if you do some reading on the actual science and not just listening to the PR excuses his management team comes up with, it's very obvious he's been using PE drugs for quite some time now, and deliberately.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by CC_123

I call DC a paper champion because thats what I think he is. He's been a protected champion, especially at HW. After beating Stipe he was handed two easy fights that the UFC knew he would win. Lewis came off the luckiest win of his career prior to the title fight. He had zero cardio for it and was not in a position career wise to be ready for the title fight.

Regardless of whether or not Lewis got lucky, he won. Ngannou was supposed to be "the guy," but he also lost to Lewis in probably the worst fight ever. DC has no control over that. He fought a Derrick Lewis on a three fight win streak, which is significant at HW. He' KO'd Stipe in the first. How can DC be hiding from a guy he fought and KO'd in the first round? He fought Rumble Johnson twice and finished him twice. Rumble was the scariest fighter on the roster when he was still active.

The idea that Jon or DC have ever been protected is absurd. They both have incredible resumes. I give weight to DC winning titles in multiple divisions, actually defending the HW title successfully, which a lot of these multi-division champs never do, and he also won the Strikeforce HW Grand Prix, which is historically pretty significant looking back on it. Plus the whole never failed a drug test vs. 2x failures.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by CC_123

I call DC a paper champion because thats what I think he is. He's been a protected champion, especially at HW. After beating Stipe he was handed two easy fights that the UFC knew he would win. Lewis came off the luckiest win of his career prior to the title fight. He had zero cardio for it and was not in a position career wise to be ready for the title fight.

Also, saying that list of guys for Jones was "past their prime", here are their records at the time they met:

Matyushenko was 24-4 (fight occurred in 2010, he went on to fight until 2014)
Bader was 12-0 (fight occurred in 2011, he has lost 4 times since losing to Jones)
Shogun was 19-4 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and winning. 4-1 in last 5 fights)
Rampage was 32-8 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and has won 6 of his last 8)
Machida was 17-2 (fight occurred in 2011, he is still fighting and on a 3 fight win streak)
Evans was 17-1-1 (fight occurred in 2012, he retired, and has come back and is NOW way past his prime)
Belfort was 21-9 (fight occurred in 2012, he went on to win three in a row after losing to Jones)
Sonnen was 28-13-1 (fight occurred in 2013. I will give you this one, but it wouldn't have even happened if Hendo didn't get injured)
Gustafsson was 15-1 the first time, 18-4 the second time
Texeira was 22-2 (fight occurred in 2014, I will also give you this one. He isn't the greatest fighter in the world)
Cormier was 15-0 in 2015, 19-1 in 2017
OSP was 19-7 (I will give you this one as well. UFC gave Jones a tune up fight here)

But to say that all of the future UFC HOFers were past their prime is laughable. Jones RAN THROUGH the LHW division with authority in a majority of the guys still in their prime.

Again, like I said, I will give DC the fights against Stipe (which he won with the help of a MASSIVE eye poke), Hendo, Gustafsson, and Jones, but other than that the UFC has spoon fed him some easy competition that they knew would likely result in a DC victory, especially as of late with Volkan and Lewis, neither of which were ready to be fighting for the title. I also don't think Johnson is a "resume" guy. He was a boxer with zero cardio. If he didn't KO someone in the first 4 minutes of a round, he was struggling. He also never beat anyone noteworthy aside from Gustafsson and Bader.

Lastly, Jones isn't ducking DC at Heavyweight. Jones has nothing to prove against DC. He is 2-0 against him. DC needs to prove something against Jones and the MMA world, so why would Jones go up to Heavyweight? Jones even said he isn't going to be that guy who is out for vengeance to move up a weight class just to take away the HW title from Cormier. Cormier is the one that wants to declare himself a "champ champ", but until he beats Jones, he will NEVER be that regardless of what the record books show.

Clearly you are a DC fan and I am more a fan of Jones. I stand by my paperweight champion remarks until he fights and BEATS Jones and gives Stipe his rematch. Jones, in my eyes, is the GOAT and has the resume to back it.

we are both doing some cherry picking here...by choosing what to say after each guy you listed you are painting the picture you want to be shown...which is fine...ive done that as well...but some of the stuff you said i dont agree with....of all the guys you listed i would say that Rashad/Cormier1/Gus1/Cormier2/Gus2 and maybe Machida were in their prime...and i lean towards no for Machida because once the blueprint was out on him he has basically been a .500 fighter since then...he has not been very good since he got figured out by Shogun and then Jones and then a bunch of other guys as well....

but to be completely clear on the guys and how they fared after jones to use that to debate where they were in their careers:

Matyushenko...dont really count him as a valuable win at all to be honest...the guy lost to every fighter his whole career who was any type of good...he beat lil nog like 15yrs ago and then got KOd by him in rematch...nice record at the time...but it was a garbage resume really

Post Jones- 3-3...then retired

Bader... was 12-0...think this was just too early for him...am a big bader fan...but lets be honest...he also basically lost every big fight of his career until he went to Bellator...and now he can be the champ there but again...his biggest UFC win was prob a decision over Rampage...he lost to Jones, Lyoto, A.Johnson, Glover, Tito...basically the 5 biggest fights of his career he lost every single one...this win holds little value for JJ as well

Shogun...you say 4-1 last 5 as his highlight...yes he is still fighting...which is surprising as he looks like he may have been cooked a decade ago after injuries..."4-1 in last 5" sounds great...but it also disregards that he went 1-4 in the 5 prior to that...he is 7-6 since the Jones fight...barely .500

Rampage...strong disagree here...he lost the next two after Jones to Glover/Bader...went to Bellator and won 5 straight against a bunch of scrubs...then lost two in row(including vs garbage chael) then beat Wand..."won 6 of last 8" again is very misleading...sure he did do that but it was against trash...he hasnt had a good fight in years...even most of his wins have been horrible decisions

Machida...talked about above...once he got figured out he has been an average fighter at best!! even leading up to that...guy was overrated...won a bunch of boring decisions where he was "so elusive" and then he finally KO'd T.Silva to get a title shot...then KO'd Rashad...all credit to him on those...nice wins at the time...then he wins a dec over shogun which was a bit controversial but it showed that this guy is not some untouchable master...then he got smoked by Shogun in rematch...then he basically alternates Wins/Losses ever since..."he won his last 3 in a row"...ok...and he lost the 3 in row right before that(stopped 3x in row against real competition)...but hey he won his last 3 over the big names of: E.Anders, Vitor-way past prime and horrible, and then in Bellator against R.Carvahlo

Vitor..."he won his next 3 after Jones"...haha you mean the most clear abuse of TRT in history? that vitor? that would have beat a bear in a fight...those 3 fights are so clearly not a real picture of what Vitor was...after Super-Vitor sat out for 2yrs...he lost to anyone with a pulse basically...he beat Hendo and Marquardt...two guys light years past prime

Chael...talked his way into the fight...good for him...got smoked although this is one of the great "what ifs" to me in MMA...cuz this is the fight where in the post-fight the camera goes down and you see that Jones' big toe is like completely broken/ripped apart and sideways...what if chael makes it to the end of the round!! he wins due to stoppage and is a LHW champion!! LOL

then you say that the UFC has spoon fed DC?? how so exactly?? i truly dont understand this thinking that you have stated a couple times now...he fought almost exclusively the next guy in line at every single stop...who did he not fight? who did he get spoon fed??

you saying AJ is not a resume guy is your opinion though...he lost to Vitor years back after always missing weight...left...won like 6 straight..came back and beat P.Davis in a decision which was the knock against him...that if anyone made it tough or dragged fight on he had no shot...then he went on a tear outside of DC! KO's Lil Nog/Gus in under 3min combined...loses to DC the first time...then he DESTROYS Manuwa/Bader/Glover in under 2 minutes COMBINED!! ....then DC smokes him again...what is DC supposed to do? who did he NOT fight?

Jones was off and on gone for years....in the meantime DC fought and beat Gus, AJx2, Volkan, Anderson(cuz of Jones) then moves up and stops the HW Champion in the first damn round...then on quick turnaround takes on the #1 contender/#2 if you count Stipe still but a quick rematch was never on table...it was to land a headliner fight so they got DC a quick fight....again...who besides Lewis was more deserving at HW of that fight(not counting Stipe since he just KOd him and honestly i dont remember if he was even eligible for a quick turn...i doubt it since he was KOd)

"the UFC gave him easy fights they knew he would win"....well that is because he is really f'n good! who did they not give him?? he fought everyone that mattered over the last 5yrs or whatever...period...there was no one else that would have made more sense then D.Lewis for that fight...just because we all knew DC would win doesnt mean the UFC fed him easy fights?? they gave him the most deserving guy and he smashed him...

that is being dominant/great...not being fed easy stuff

[CC_123]

Im not going to continue to back up my points after this short post.

DC beat Stipe, yes, but with the help of a massive eye poke that clearly affected Stipe. He fought a out of shape and old Anderson Silver and got hurt by him on a leg kick to the gut. Volkan and Lewis were not ready for title fights. Again, AJ never was a good fighter. He has KO power, that's it. If he had to go more than 4 minutes he was done. In my opinion he has been protected and my mind isn't changing. AJ twice/Volkan/Silva/Lewis/Nelson/Barnett/Bigfoot are nothing to write home about in my opinion. He has fought Jones twice (lost), Gustafsson twice, Stipe, and Henderson that have shown challenges. I will give him credit for those, but again, I will take Jones resume over that of Cormiers. I will never view Cormier as the GOAT because I feel his is a paper champion and has been handed several easy fights, especially recently. That's my opinion and you have yours. In my opinion Jones is the GOAT and will be until Cormier can prove otherwise. Too bad DC is too focused on a "money fight" with Lesnar (ironic how he wants to rag on Jones, but wants to fight one of the biggest juice heads out there) and too focused on not giving Stipe his rematch or trying to beat Jones to prove that he is the GOAT. I am sure its because he feels he will lose both fights and doesn't want to retire on a 2-3 fight losing streak, which I can't blame him for I suppose.

[lionsfan20]

Man Donald cerrone is on his way to being the greatest mma fighter ever! I have been watching him since his wec days and I have not seen a boring fight yet. I think McGregor is the only fighter more exciting to watch. Cowboy is much more well rounded though. To me its GSP at #1 and Cowboy #2 all time. Congrats to him on an impressive tko tonight. Hope the main event delivers like that last fight.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[thewild3]

Damn, Cejudo is a beast!!!!

[Ferg1945]

Just watched an 8 min post-fight interview with Paige. It's fun to see her back and enjoying the journey.

[Magickyak]

Fun night. Aside from ESPN+ crashing 4 times throughout the night and missing half of one of the fights. The first time there were rumors of McGregor/Cowboy I thought it was a stupid idea but after last night, hell, I'd be for it I guess. Main event stoppage was fine. No complaints there.

[nick9819]

i will be at the fight night in philly at the end of march super pumped will be the first UFC event i attend.