2015 Prospect Rush Draft Hit Parade

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by cyndeeg3

I have a hard time "feeling bad" for someone who has $3K or more to drop on a box of cards. :-)

Having said that, I feel bad for PR/Will. The guy did a ton of work, yes, I am sure he made/will make money - possibly a lot. He did something that likely most members of this forum thinks would be "awesome" just rip and grade a few hundred cards, slap em in a box and call it good. There is SO MUCH work that went into this.

Hope it turns into an improved format for the next PR release, KB brought the hype and will likely turn out to be the worst idea of the whole thing (for collectors) or those who would bust this.

It's like anything else - imperfect. Absolutely, 100% a group breakers product and a brilliant one (IMHO) in so many ways.

Let's hope for some sick, loaded, ridiculous cases for those who are still holding out hope that the first few cases aren't going to be the norm...

How can you feel bad for Prospect Rush? Their first releases were dogs. This release is even worse. I would like to think even the gamblers in this hobby would stay away from their products. I could be wrong, but I have to think this has turned ALOT of people away.

Essentially you have an individual who bought hundreds of 2014 draft cases, thought oh crap I'm going to get killed, and decided to release a high dollar repack to recoup his loss on the backs of his fellow "collectors".

People need to say NO to these products. They are absolutely destroying this industry.

[Andrew Jones]

Originally Posted by cyndeeg3

I have a hard time "feeling bad" for someone who has $3K or more to drop on a box of cards. :-)

Having said that, I feel bad for PR/Will. The guy did a ton of work, yes, I am sure he made/will make money - possibly a lot. He did something that likely most members of this forum thinks would be "awesome" just rip and grade a few hundred cards, slap em in a box and call it good. There is SO MUCH work that went into this.

Hope it turns into an improved format for the next PR release, KB brought the hype and will likely turn out to be the worst idea of the whole thing (for collectors) or those who would bust this.

It's like anything else - imperfect. Absolutely, 100% a group breakers product and a brilliant one (IMHO) in so many ways.

Let's hope for some sick, loaded, ridiculous cases for those who are still holding out hope that the first few cases aren't going to be the norm...

I feel bad for him only to the extent that some people bought into this product based off of unrealistic expectations generated from people other than ML/PR but they'll blame him when they get hammered. From what I can tell, he has delivered on everything he promised with respect to this product. If someone isn't happy with a break, the blame should be placed on themselves for thinking this would be something it isn't (and was never promised to be) and/or believing some of the posters in this thread who were setting unreasonable expectations for this product.

[Sushiyoshi]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

How can you feel bad for Prospect Rush? Their first releases were dogs. This release is even worse. I would like to think even the gamblers in this hobby would stay away from their products. I could be wrong, but I have to think this has turned ALOT of people away.

Essentially you have an individual who bought hundreds of 2014 draft cases, thought oh crap I'm going to get killed, and decided to release a high dollar repack to recoup his loss on the backs of his fellow "collectors".

People need to say NO to these products. They are absolutely destroying this industry.

I think the product was planned all along before he busted all those cases.

[cyndeeg3]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

How can you feel bad for Prospect Rush? Their first releases were dogs. This release is even worse. I would like to think even the gamblers in this hobby would stay away from their products. I could be wrong, but I have to think this has turned ALOT of people away.

Essentially you have an individual who bought hundreds of 2014 draft cases, thought oh crap I'm going to get killed, and decided to release a high dollar repack to recoup his loss on the backs of his fellow "collectors".

People need to say NO to these products. They are absolutely destroying this industry.

I know nothing of the previous releases. I feel bad for someone who works hard on a project or concept or business and it appears as though it's not going to be what many HOPED for. Regardless of whatever someones opinion was BEFORE this release, I feel that there would need to be pretty large scale damage control to have any future release be met with anything but skepticism.

He appears to be a nice human being. I like to see others succeed and if this product looked like a success, that would mean, WE, as collectors/gamblers/groupbreak participants, would also be reaping the rewards.

I hoped this would be a huge hit and I would be scrambling to get into breaks, but I am not. THAT is why I feel sorry for him, he followed a dream and it's looking like a nightmare...

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by cyndeeg3

I know nothing of the previous releases. I feel bad for someone who works hard on a project or concept or business and it appears as though it's not going to be what many HOPED for. Regardless of whatever someones opinion was BEFORE this release, I feel that there would need to be pretty large scale damage control to have any future release be met with anything but skepticism.

He appears to be a nice human being. I like to see others succeed and if this product looked like a success, that would mean, WE, as collectors/gamblers/groupbreak participants, would also be reaping the rewards.

I hoped this would be a huge hit and I would be scrambling to get into breaks, but I am not. THAT is why I feel sorry for him, he followed a dream and it's looking like a nightmare...

I assume the dream is to make money. His dream has come true. You cannot be an innovator when your product revolves 100% around another companies products.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by cyndeeg3

I know nothing of the previous releases. I feel bad for someone who works hard on a project or concept or business and it appears as though it's not going to be what many HOPED for. Regardless of whatever someones opinion was BEFORE this release, I feel that there would need to be pretty large scale damage control to have any future release be met with anything but skepticism.

I believe that is exactly what was said after the last Prospect Rush offering.

I hoped this would be a huge hit and I would be scrambling to get into breaks, but I am not. THAT is why I feel sorry for him, he followed a dream and it's looking like a nightmare...

Followed a dream? Prospect Rush did what others have done repeatedly in the past. I don't believe it's a nightmare - Prospect Rush made their money and sold the product out in its entirety. Prospect Rush couldn't care what happens from here on out.

[death2redemptions]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

I assume the dream is to make money. His dream has come true. You cannot be an innovator when your product revolves 100% around another companies products.

Are you telling me that he didn't make this product for charity and it was all for profit??? Say it ain't so!

I deserve another suspension for thinking such things. By the way, while I was being driven to suspension city on the prison bus I ran into WCTYSON down in Bansylvania and he says hi. He said he had full intentions of breaking out to ensue revenge on everyone who harmed him.

[Chaysr20]

I dont understand why some of you are expecting the world from this. The product was always meant to be a group break item and as such give opportunity to hit big at a low to moderate buy in. The top handful will make out nicely while others not so much. Prospect Rush is full of impressive hits in a quantity supremely lower than normal print runs. If you "invested" heavily in this and didn't make out, then how's it different than most other group breaks with Bowman, Panini, etc. products? I don't see all these ridiculous rants in all the group break threads...

[kordell1]

I can't believe that every $8000 case does not have $20000 in ROI!!??? I know every case of Topps product that I open has at least 2-3X sell value of my original investment.(Please note sarcasm)
After a small sample of cases, people are acting like this is the worst product of all time. I think most sensible human beings realize that these have been exactly what should be expected. There will be a few that will be money makers(ex:the individual box with the Red Schwarber), a few break even and a bunch of value less than the price of the box/case. What these are designed for, is a much higher % chance at big hits, which is exactly what they provide. This makes them perfect for group breaks, but not as ideal for individual breaks. Will there be people that drop $2700 and feel they got robbed? Of course. Those same people probably lose a pile of cash at the casino and then get mad at the casino for "taking their money". There is no way to make every box/case a money maker. It's a gamble. I have dropped a couple hundred into breaks with the full expectation that I may get absolutely nothing or a few $10-$20 cards, but I know I have a much better chance of hitting a big card than I ever will in Topps/Bowman boxes. For all of the people that are complaining about this product, maybe you should come up with your own product and load each box with $5000 worth of cards and then sell them for $2500 each and see how well you do with that.

[edhou1]

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

Prospect Rush couldn't care what happens from here on out.

Well, if they want to sell next year's version of Prospect Rush, they will probably need to care.

[letsgocapitals]

Originally Posted by bigaust001

I'm against all large scale repack products in the hobby, and I feel that they turn many new collectors away from collecting in an attempt for a quick profit, but with that said, I will always commend a board member for being active in the industry and elevating their participation in the hobby. Surely you guys expected to take a hit... and a a large one at that... when the Bryant became a pawn in this game. I stand behind Will 110% for chasing his dream, but there is a thin line between being a collector and a member of the hobby, and being of the 'bad guys' that are in this thing purely for profit when making a product. To date, I can't recall a maker of a product taking a hit and doing it just because they love the hobby, and there's nothing wrong with that, as that is the name of the game, but for people to expect ROI to exceed 50-60% on average is just flat out blindness.

Excellent post.

[RYBOWSKI97]

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

I believe that is exactly what was said after the last Prospect Rush offering.



Followed a dream? Prospect Rush did what others have done repeatedly in the past. I don't believe it's a nightmare - Prospect Rush made their money and sold the product out in its entirety. Prospect Rush couldn't care what happens from here on out.

FUNNY NO WORD FROM HIM TODAY....at least i learned from members here that next time i get hosed on a high end box or case, i can just use the excuse that it was intended for group breaks.

[natbornkiller]

I hate to say this but
there is way to much 2014 bowman in this product

[armyatc22]

So let's bring up the question again....

What happens if all 5 Bryant chase cards are not pulled before the National?

[jewcer2k5]

What AVERAGE return would you expect or think would be a "fair" return on a product like this. You guys that are shredding the product....Be honest...You know he is going to make some kind of profit from doing this or he just wouldn't do it...

If a product came out that every box was at least 50% return, most boxes around 75% and some winners would that be a product you wouldn't rip?

Are there any products like that in the current marketplace?

[mjbuchanan80]

Originally Posted by armyatc22

So let's bring up the question again....

What happens if all 5 Bryant chase cards are not pulled before the National?

Not possible. Demand will go up as more and more cards are scratched. All boxes will be opened for either of two reasons:

1) To get to the Chase card if all have not yet been revealed
2) No reason to keep them sealed as there is nothing in the boxes besides the Bryant Chase that would push their value over box price.

[Ballerskrip]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

What AVERAGE return would you expect or think would be a "fair" return on a product like this. You guys that are shredding the product....Be honest...You know he is going to make some kind of profit from doing this or he just wouldn't do it...

If a product came out that every box was at least 50% return, most boxes around 75% and some winners would that be a product you wouldn't rip?

Are there any products like that in the current marketplace?

It is just reality that the return on products like this are bound to be less than a NEWLY PRODUCED Product. Instead of making a card and costing pennies, you are buying the product on the secondary market.

The part that keeps being left out is the markup/margin being made by blowout, etc. Just because the retail price is $2700, that isn't what PR charged. I don't have the the Direct pricing in front of me, but I am guessing it was somewhere in the $1900-$2000 range. That is a MASSIVE difference and of course changes the % recouped drastically.

Let's use $1900

Your Return is say $1200 on the box - 63%

Let's use $2700

Your Return is say $1200 on the box - 44%

I realize this is the case with most if not all products, but I wanted to point out that all of the percentage points are going into PR's wallet, a very nice percentage goes to the middle man

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

What AVERAGE return would you expect or think would be a "fair" return on a product like this. You guys that are shredding the product....Be honest...You know he is going to make some kind of profit from doing this or he just wouldn't do it...

If a product came out that every box was at least 50% return, most boxes around 75% and some winners would that be a product you wouldn't rip?

Are there any products like that in the current marketplace?

The difference is -- this is no more than a grab bag. It's a "buy, repackage, sell" product. Topps, Panini, and (some) Leaf actually have to buy licenses, produce product, and then package and sell. I would expect their cost to be higher. I don't believe you can compare a repackage to an original product as original product (obviously) places new product (and in many cases, new players) into the market.

The analysis has been done by someone with more time and likely more patience than I, breaking down what Prospect Rush's costs are, as well as markup, and how much profit could be expected for the company vs. the estimated return. I'm sure it's about 30-50 pages back somewhere; I find it absolutely ridiculous that people did not expect this type of return on the break.

As has been said many times, it is a group break product where MANY will lose, few will win. Personally, I didn't expect the breaks to be SO bad with 8 -- sometimes 9 -- slabs all coming in under $100 SV ea.

[jr24ai3]

Originally Posted by armyatc22

So let's bring up the question again....

What happens if all 5 Bryant chase cards are not pulled before the National?

He said earlier that it will still be given away at the National even if all 5 are not pulled.

[BOOMER7]

Originally Posted by Ballerskrip

It is just reality that the return on products like this are bound to be less than a NEWLY PRODUCED Product. Instead of making a card and costing pennies, you are buying the product on the secondary market.

The part that keeps being left out is the markup/margin being made by blowout, etc. Just because the retail price is $2700, that isn't what PR charged. I don't have the the Direct pricing in front of me, but I am guessing it was somewhere in the $1900-$2000 range. That is a MASSIVE difference and of course changes the % recouped drastically.

Let's use $1900

Your Return is say $1200 on the box - 63%

Let's use $2700

Your Return is say $1200 on the box - 44%

I realize this is the case with most if not all products, but I wanted to point out that all of the percentage points are going into PR's wallet, a very nice percentage goes to the middle man

$1900 is way off from cost
more like $2300 box and does anyone know if all cases were sold (300) was this published?

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by Ballerskrip

It is just reality that the return on products like this are bound to be less than a NEWLY PRODUCED Product. Instead of making a card and costing pennies, you are buying the product on the secondary market.

The part that keeps being left out is the markup/margin being made by blowout, etc. Just because the retail price is $2700, that isn't what PR charged. I don't have the the Direct pricing in front of me, but I am guessing it was somewhere in the $1900-$2000 range. That is a MASSIVE difference and of course changes the % recouped drastically.

Let's use $1900

Your Return is say $1200 on the box - 63%

Let's use $2700

Your Return is say $1200 on the box - 44%

I realize this is the case with most if not all products, but I wanted to point out that all of the percentage points are going into PR's wallet, a very nice percentage goes to the middle man

I would hope for PR's sake that it was more than $1900. At that rate, the dealer makes $800 per box whereas PR makes ~$700 on the box. I would think it would be closer to $2300 direct cost.

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by Ballerskrip

It is just reality that the return on products like this are bound to be less than a NEWLY PRODUCED Product. Instead of making a card and costing pennies, you are buying the product on the secondary market.

The part that keeps being left out is the markup/margin being made by blowout, etc. Just because the retail price is $2700, that isn't what PR charged. I don't have the the Direct pricing in front of me, but I am guessing it was somewhere in the $1900-$2000 range. That is a MASSIVE difference and of course changes the % recouped drastically.

Let's use $1900

Your Return is say $1200 on the box - 63%

Let's use $2700

Your Return is say $1200 on the box - 44%

I realize this is the case with most if not all products, but I wanted to point out that all of the percentage points are going into PR's wallet, a very nice percentage goes to the middle man

Well you are wrong on what direct buyers are paying.

That being said what % of retail would you think is fair on a re-packed product.

I understand there are people that just don't see the allure to them but when it comes down to it people here are willing to draft a 1/60 chance at getting a good hit and 59/60 chance of getting NOTHING. So seems like there are more interested than not interested.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by mjbuchanan80

Not possible. Demand will go up as more and more cards are scratched. All boxes will be opened for either of two reasons:

1) To get to the Chase card if all have not yet been revealed
2) No reason to keep them sealed as there is nothing in the boxes besides the Bryant Chase that would push their value over box price.

Always possible, unless you can guarantee that nothing will be lost by a shipping company.
Just not very likely, barring a newsworthy disaster.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

Well you are wrong on what direct buyers are paying.

That being said what % of retail would you think is fair on a re-packed product.

I understand there are people that just don't see the allure to them but when it comes down to it people here are willing to draft a 1/60 chance at getting a good hit and 59/60 chance of getting NOTHING. So seems like there are more interested than not interested.

We gamble. This hobby -- we ALL gamble.

Prospecting? Gambling.
Opening wax? Gambling.
Buying autos? Gambling that they're authentic.
Buying retired players? Gambling that they don't have a "bill cosby" or drug type issue and their cards go down. This is the lowest risk in gambling -- also the lowest reward.

To be attracted to this hobby, you almost HAVE to inherently like to gamble. This release just amps up the cost, as well as the reward.

A case of Chrome is nickel slots. This is the $1 slot.

[darealstunna]

Originally Posted by armyatc22

So let's bring up the question again....

What happens if all 5 Bryant chase cards are not pulled before the National?

I get to sell my unscratched one for a ridiculous amount of money capitalizing on the hype