Elly De La Cruz

[Zauron]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

YOU believe the cons outweigh the positives. That's subjective. I disagree. No big deal. But it is NOT lunacy to call someone special who by your own assessment has out of this world speed and a cannon arm. That is special. Whether it comes together for a special career is still yet to be seen. But it's not lunacy to say so. It's lunacy to think people can't think he's special in spite of the current weaknesses of his game.

The fact is, those fans here saying a few moderate positives don't have an agenda other than to say something nice about a player they like. The ones with an agenda are the ones trying so hard to shoot down any compliments. THAT'S a fact.

Edit: by the way, I'm not buying Elly. I agree his prices are absurd (as are nearly all modern prospects). Just wanted to point that out again before people start pointing to card prices to justify their position on Elly.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

I'm not even going to mention his prices now...but what exactly is there positive about him Since June?

July:

.238/.277/.410 slash for OPS of .687, struck out 39 times. 8 steals, caught stealing 3 times

August:

.198/.267/.396 OPS of .663, struck out 44 times, 6 steals and 2 caught stealing

September so far:

.162/.295/.189 OPS of .484, struck out 14 times so far with 3 steals and 1 caught stealing

[msink28]

I think they're down about half from the National, and National was down maybe 20-25% from the peak?

But, to be honest, still amazingly strong. Just sold a PSA 10 Mega that came back from PSA for $140. More than J-Rod, and print runs are higher too.

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

How are Elly prices today vs the initial MLB heater?

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

YOU believe the cons outweigh the positives. That's subjective. I disagree. No big deal. But it is NOT lunacy to call someone special who by your own assessment has out of this world speed and a cannon arm. That is special. Whether it comes together for a special career is still yet to be seen. But it's not lunacy to say so. It's lunacy to think people can't think he's special in spite of the current weaknesses of his game.

The fact is, those fans here saying a few moderate positives don't have an agenda other than to say something nice about a player they like. The ones with an agenda are the ones trying so hard to shoot down any compliments. THAT'S a fact.

Edit: by the way, I'm not buying

It took Torkelson till the second half of this season and now he is raking. Cruz over the past third of a season (54 games) has been horrible, under .600 OPS. Torkelson was probably right around the same OPS. Cruz is a young player with incredible skills.

I’m not sure how many Reds fans expected this team to be in playoff contention. The great start helped the Reds stay in contention, now that he is struggling, his performance is being more recognized. I would guess he will figure it out and perform better next season.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by msink28

I think they're down about half from the National, and National was down maybe 20-25% from the peak?

But, to be honest, still amazingly strong. Just sold a PSA 10 Mega that came back from PSA for $140. More than J-Rod, and print runs are higher too.

Fwiw last time I looked they were down roughly 50% from peak, and they are down around 40% from there. Prob down around 70% total from peak. But I have little-no interest in his card prices, only prop bet action

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by Stifle

It took Torkelson till the second half of this season and now he is raking. Cruz over the past third of a season (54 games) has been horrible, under .600 OPS. Torkelson was probably right around the same OPS. Cruz is a young player with incredible skills.

.

Tork hit .230 last month with 30+ Ks and is hitting .235 on the season. Yes his power numbers look better but I wouldn’t go so far as to call that raking

If you are saying be patient and Elly can put up tork numbers in a year or two I do believe that’s a realistic projection thiugh, with more steals

[brios8]

Originally Posted by Stifle

It took Torkelson till the second half of this season and now he is raking. Cruz over the past third of a season (54 games) has been horrible, under .600 OPS. Torkelson was probably right around the same OPS. Cruz is a young player with incredible skills.

I’m not sure how many Reds fans expected this team to be in playoff contention. The great start helped the Reds stay in contention, now that he is struggling, his performance is being more recognized. I would guess he will figure it out and perform better next season.

Torkelson was always rated as an amazing quality hitter and his prices were never as insane as Elly.

Elly has been all hype, he has always had problems striking out. The prices were unreal 3x Witt jr, 2x Jrod, same as Acuna

[msink28]

Yeah, I think around 70% sounds right to me.

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

Fwiw last time I looked they were down roughly 50% from peak, and they are down around 40% from there. Prob down around 70% total from peak. But I have little-no interest in his card prices, only prop bet action

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by msink28

What did Elly De La Cruz ever do to anyone except make people a bunch of money in the short run, lol.

Aren't there losers at the end of those deals? There are plenty of Elly bag holders out there.

[cardozo]

Originally Posted by brios8

Torkelson was always rated as an amazing quality hitter and his prices were never as insane as Elly.

Elly has been all hype, he has always had problems striking out. The prices were unreal 3x Witt jr, 2x Jrod, same as Acuna

Torkelson was pretty high prior to his call up, if I remember correctly his graded BCA base were around $1500.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Elly having a fierce battle with Volpe for most disappointing rookie season.

Elly: 87 OPS+, 1.0 WAR
Volpe: 85 OPS+, 3.1 WAR

Does the lawyer still think this isn’t close? And is an 87 OPS+ still considered average?

[cardozo]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Elly: 87 OPS+, 1.0 WAR
Volpe: 85 OPS+, 3.1 WAR

Does the lawyer still think this isn’t close? And is an 87 OPS+ still considered average?

Volpe did play more games and has been good defensively.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Elly: 87 OPS+, 1.0 WAR
Volpe: 85 OPS+, 3.1 WAR

Does the lawyer still think this isn’t close? And is an 87 OPS+ still considered average?

The confusion arises from the fact that he can’t do math. Full
Disclosure, I’m also a bored lawyer so my math could be wrong here but he uses 100 as baseline for OPS+ (fine) but then falsely arrives at the conclusion that a OPS+ is 8% from league average.

The lowest OPS+ in baseball is maybe 40 which would lead you to conclude that soemoje in the bottom 1 percentile is only 60% from league average

[redlegs]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

The confusion arises from the fact that he can’t do math. Full
Disclosure, I’m also a bored lawyer so my math could be wrong here but he uses 100 as baseline for OPS+ (fine) but then falsely arrives at the conclusion that a OPS+ is 8% from league average.

The lowest OPS+ in baseball is maybe 40 which would lead you to conclude that soemoje in the bottom 1 percentile is only 60% from league average

You must not be very good at your job then, just like Elly.

[johnlocke36]

To be clear I recognize that an OPS+ of 150 equates to being 50% better than league average but what I’m saying is it’s unfair to categorize someone for example as 60% below league average vs worst in baseball. A far more “fair approach” would be to state where the rank in OPS of you are trying to argue that they are middle of the pack for example

If you were to look at OPS leaderboard, OPS+ park adjusted so he’s prob lower actually playing in cinci, he’s 190/260 in OPS.

So 190 batters better and 70 batters worse and you are cali min he’s middle of the pack offensively… keeping in mind those 70 below are the worst hitttes in baseball several of which have either been sent down/r released or platooning for clubs trying to lose for draft picks. I don’t want Elly to fail I jsut want Bored Lawyer ti be honest with what he is watching/claiming

[SupermanBrandon]

Man if he doesn't produce next year & plays the entire season, there will be nowhere to hide by calculating a % of this part of that one time in this season.

[Boredlawyer]

I love Elly. He's like the Wily Mo Pena 20th Anniversary Edition.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Man if he doesn't produce next year & plays the entire season, there will be nowhere to hide by calculating a % of this part of that one time in this season.

Here is the last 2+ months with some requirements for At bats

[jhssketchcards]

“He’s SO fast!”

Today 0-0 with 2 BB:
Stole second, then picked off stealing third base
Replaced in the 8th by Nick Senzel


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThoseBackPages]

#ThanksTopps

[duwal]

think Reds fans may have seen this before with Billy Hamilton, only with more power and less speed (or at least less attempts at using the speed)

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by duwal

think Reds fans may have seen this before with Billy Hamilton, only with more power and less speed (or at least less attempts at using the speed)

That’s ok, Steer seems like a solid player for years to come with good power and some speed. Of course Aaron Rodgers could steal bases with the new rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grave252]

Seems like the Elly chatter has subsided, both good and bad.

Base chrome 1st Bowmans in a PSA 10 peaked at over $200. Now at $60.
Base chrome 1st Bowman raw peaked around $90, now at $10.

So predictable. Not a knock on Elly, more a knock on the buyers who continue to buy the top. Imagine panic buying a bowman base card for $100 thinking it was a good deal.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Grave252

Seems like the Elly chatter has subsided, both good and bad.

Base chrome 1st Bowmans in a PSA 10 peaked at over $200. Now at $60.
Base chrome 1st Bowman raw peaked around $90, now at $10.

So predictable. Not a knock on Elly, more a knock on the buyers who continue to buy the top. Imagine panic buying a bowman base card for $100 thinking it was a good deal.

As for the higher end,

psa 10 chrome atomic auto was $8000 at peak. Now at $3000.

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

As for the higher end,

psa 10 chrome atomic auto was $8000 at peak. Now at $3000.

Who's buying this type of stuff at peak? I get FOMO but eventually those people are going to get burned enough and tap out of the "hobby".

[Grave252]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

As for the higher end,

psa 10 chrome atomic auto was $8000 at peak. Now at $3000.

It’s genuinely unfathomable. It happens year in, year out with various players who burst on the scene. Happened with Julio late last year. If you see a card for a certain player go from 2K to 6K in a 2 week span, and you decide to buy in at 6K, are you really thinking it’s going to 10K? Like a guy on a 2 week heater is going to maintain that for 3 months.

I said it at the time and I’ll say it again, but Elly cards have likely already peaked for his career. They now have room to go up again, but they won’t reach previous highs.