Don't Kill The Messenger: Rumor about a BO Member At The National

[brentandbecca]

I am not saying one way or the other BUT I have seen so many mistakes by card companies and players over the years that I would not doubt it is real just yet.

As for a 2nd pen...I hit several of these and I could not tell, not sure why people think it is a different pen as handwriting is going to look different then a signature, just look at all the completeds of these on eBay for examples, and it could have been added after signing was done
Another thing is, he could have accidentally signed the wrong cards which has happened before or topps numbered one of these by mistake
I believe they are numbered prior to signing, at least that was what used to happen so that the card/auto is not potential ruined

But who knows... Need to see another ARCIA one to compare it with for starters

But as far as the #/500, again so many #ring errors in my case breaks it is unreal, like cards 501/500 or 000/500, or 6/5 or even pulling the same serial number...I once hit a card that was suppose to be /99 but was numbered /990 but at lest the front had the correct gold border...again, just saying it is possible or possible said player signed the wrong refractor card

[Sikkcaden]

Originally Posted by nhsportsguy

Who said he ever spoke those words?

Do any of you know what hearsay is?!

There's no recorded conversation, hence why I said a trusted member could verify it with this person. There's enough evidence to suggest the interaction happened. My guy told me that interaction at the very beginning of everything. He didnt tack it on later to drive the point home.

[wheeler281]

all hearsay and no proof. Classic BODA

[DSizzle31]

This has been mentioned but bears repeating, if he actually would've pack pulled it, he would've made a thread about it at the time.

End of story.

It wasn't pack pulled.

[cking]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Isn't this fraud? Isn't this a scam from the beginning?

Remember Haiku? This was a person that for months, set up a plan of action to steal people's cards, their money. He was calculated, he was cunning, and nobody saw it coming.
Doesn't this one instance show the same cunning, the same calculation? This kid pulled or purchased an Oswaldo Arcia refractor auto from 2013 Bowman. He then found a pen that closely matched the color of the autograph, found Arcia's twitter handle, wrote it on the card himself, sent it off to BGS for grading (likely a 20 day grade so it was a good month before the card returned) and then put the card up on eBay with no indication this wasn't 100% the real thing.

That's the kind of pre-meditation you look for in a murder one conviction for God's sake.

No matter how stupid or how trivial this potentially $200 sale was/is, it's a scam all the same. Until today, he had no problem selling this card fraudulently (he said so himself).

I've done too much business with him to not be pissed off by this whole thing. Damn you Mike.

I saw it coming. In fact myself and another trusted Blowout member pmd one another back and forth for 3 weeks saying this guy was up to something before he pulled his scam.

Neither one of us felt obliged to say anything because of the Lynch mob on here. Because if we had been wrong the forum would be burning us at the stake.

[Bob Loblaw]

Originally Posted by achantl

I've worked with Mike multiple times as well and he always seemed to be a stand up guy. I think that's what makes this so confusing/frustrating/etc as most felt he was one of the "good ones" on these boards. I've read this entire thread and am not sure what to think. There is mounting evidence of some wrong doing here and Mike's responses haven't been very helpful, but I'm holding out hope that Mike will come forward and give a detailed description of his side of the story.

Mike, I know you're swamped at the National, but maybe a post stating that you'll share your side when time permits would be better than just blowing off what's going on. I really don't want this to be true.....

"Say it ain't so Mike, say it ain't so..."

He has posted his side.

For what it's worth, these threads usually wind up in a mass beatdown but... this one, it's hard to see another side of it, especially given the new details about Cingrani-gate.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by brentandbecca

I am not saying one way or the other BUT I have seen so many mistakes by card companies and players over the years that I would not doubt it is real just yet.

As for a 2nd pen...I hit several of these and I could not tell, not sure why people think it is a different pen as handwriting is going to look different then a signature, just look at all the completeds of these on eBay for examples, and it could have been added after signing was done
Another thing is, he could have accidentally signed the wrong cards which has happened before or topps numbered one of these by mistake
I believe they are numbered prior to signing, at least that was what used to happen so that the card/auto is not potential ruined

But who knows... Need to see another ARCIA one to compare it with for starters

But as far as the #/500, again so many #ring errors in my case breaks it is unreal, like cards 501/500 or 000/500, or 6/5 or even pulling the same serial number...I once hit a card that was suppose to be /99 but was numbered /990 but at lest the front had the correct gold border...again, just saying it is possible or possible said player signed the wrong refractor card

Didn't 2008 Moments and Milestones have a ton of numbering issues? The main thing that sits poorly with me are his responses so far.

[Sikkcaden]

Originally Posted by brentandbecca

As for a 2nd pen...I hit several of these and I could not tell, not sure why people think it is a different pen as handwriting is going to look different then a signature

The A's on his 2011 card are completely different than the one in question. The writing in general looks nothing alike.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by cking

I saw it coming. In fact myself and another trusted Blowout member pmd one another back and forth for 3 weeks saying this guy was up to something before he pulled his scam.

Neither one of us felt obliged to say anything because of the Lynch mob on here. Because if we had been wrong the forum would be burning us at the stake.

You just wake up?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by brentandbecca

I am not saying one way or the other BUT I have seen so many mistakes by card companies and players over the years that I would not doubt it is real just yet.

As for a 2nd pen...I hit several of these and I could not tell, not sure why people think it is a different pen as handwriting is going to look different then a signature, just look at all the completeds of these on eBay for examples, and it could have been added after signing was done
Another thing is, he could have accidentally signed the wrong cards which has happened before or topps numbered one of these by mistake
I believe they are numbered prior to signing, at least that was what used to happen so that the card/auto is not potential ruined

But who knows... Need to see another ARCIA one to compare it with for starters

But as far as the #/500, again so many #ring errors in my case breaks it is unreal, like cards 501/500 or 000/500, or 6/5 or even pulling the same serial number...I once hit a card that was suppose to be /99 but was numbered /990 but at lest the front had the correct gold border...again, just saying it is possible or possible said player signed the wrong refractor card

Brent

You're absolutely right. I agree with everything you said, EXCEPT for the fact that this post was not created out of thin air. The reason it was started is because Mike C told somebody that he forged it! The OP did not wake up this morning, and create this elaborate ruse ...

There isn't a single piece of evidence that suggests he's telling the truth. From the penmanship, the pen, the grading of such an OC card, Mike's words, the fact he didn't say anything when he pulled it ...

What are we supposed to think?

[wheeler281]

still waiting for proof instead of flapping gums and he said she said but the source has not come forward?? Why should the sold called culprit answer to anonymous claims

[achantl]

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

He has posted his side.

For what it's worth, these threads usually wind up in a mass beatdown but... this one, it's hard to see another side of it, especially given the new details about Cingrani-gate.

I agree completely that this doesn't look good and it's going to be hard to challenge what has been presented.

My post was more of a plea to Mike to offer up more than he did in his posts.

[stamkos]

Originally Posted by wheeler281

still waiting for proof instead of flapping gums

I've dealt with mike plenty of times and he's been nothing but a standup guy everytime. I think this might be a misunderstanding. Also, with that being said; I believe topps sure could've screwed this up. You guys act like topps isn't a screw up type company. Honestly.

[ctbinvestments]

I'd like to see another Social Media Arcia Auto to compare. Most of the Social Media Autos I see the players obviously knew they were going to add the inscription and signed higher/to the side/or smaller than they did on their regular auto cards. This one looks signed right in the middle like a reg card would've been. I'm not making any judgements/comments as I have dealt several times with Mike as well and have no idea what to think. Does anyone have a SM Arcia out there to compare? Does anyone know if every BC Auto even has a SM Version? Alot of questions here still unanswered.

[dlab85]

Originally Posted by brentandbecca

I am not saying one way or the other BUT I have seen so many mistakes by card companies and players over the years that I would not doubt it is real just yet.

As for a 2nd pen...I hit several of these and I could not tell, not sure why people think it is a different pen as handwriting is going to look different then a signature, just look at all the completeds of these on eBay for examples, and it could have been added after signing was done
Another thing is, he could have accidentally signed the wrong cards which has happened before or topps numbered one of these by mistake
I believe they are numbered prior to signing, at least that was what used to happen so that the card/auto is not potential ruined

But who knows... Need to see another ARCIA one to compare it with for starters

But as far as the #/500, again so many #ring errors in my case breaks it is unreal, like cards 501/500 or 000/500, or 6/5 or even pulling the same serial number...I once hit a card that was suppose to be /99 but was numbered /990 but at lest the front had the correct gold border...again, just saying it is possible or possible said player signed the wrong refractor card

True story... it would not surprise me one bit if the idiots at Topps stamped the wrong serial # onto a card that was intended to be numbered /10. I'm assuming the cards are stamped after they are signed? Or if they are stamped before, it's possible the guy just signed the wrong one... I'm sure Oswaldo Arcia has very little idea about what goes on in the collecting industry.

As bad as some of the quotes associated with this case look here, I would just give it a chance for everything to come out.

[flagshipchromecollector]

smells fishy but i'm missouri until we hear straight from the "source". not a fan of ruining a guys rep over double hearsay.

[wheeler281]

Originally Posted by stamkos

I've dealt with mike plenty of times and he's been nothing but a standup guy everytime. I think this might be a misunderstanding. Also, with that being said; I believe topps sure could've screwed this up. You guys act like topps isn't a screw up type company. Honestly.

exactly the best we got is some chicken shat( could change if came forward) source saying he told the told me rofl. Must be true

[statman32]

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

Cingrani-gate.

.......

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by stamkos

I've dealt with mike plenty of times and he's been nothing but a standup guy everytime. I think this might be a misunderstanding. Also, with that being said; I believe topps sure could've screwed this up. You guys act like topps isn't a screw up type company. Honestly.

His dog did it?

[centereacan06]

We could always ask Oswaldo on twitter if that's his handwriting. After all, he is on twitter @arciaoswaldo

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by wheeler281

exactly the best we got is some chicken shat( could change if came forward) source saying he told the told me rofl. Must be true

Originally Posted by AUTaxMan

smells fishy but i'm missouri until we hear straight from the "source". not a fan of ruining a guys rep over double hearsay.

But there's plenty of other evidence besides the source's alleged conversation. Imagine the OP just found this on eBay randomly and posted the same thing...would this thread be any different? I say no, especially considering the response from the seller.

[Cactuspies]

Originally Posted by Sikkcaden

The A's on his 2011 card are completely different than the one in question. The writing in general looks nothing alike.

just want to chime in if what I saw from earlier posts was correct.

for the prospect cards, topps uses the signatures from mlb/milb (or whatever it is) contracts so the facsimile signatures may look nothing like the actual signatures on the cards.

This whole thing is weird and no matter what the outcome, at least it has been brought up for discussion.

nothing like a national w/o some story of a possible scam.

oh and Vick has dogs for whomever posted about that, and aaron hernandez will be back in the nfl soon, and is innocent according to some weird letter he wrote to a "kid" who was in the same prison years ago....also jodi arias proclaimed her innocence for years, so did lance armstong, arod, braun, palmeiro, big mac, and most of the nfl players caught doping

[DSizzle31]

Originally Posted by dlab85

True story... it would not surprise me one bit if the idiots at Topps stamped the wrong serial # onto a card that was intended to be numbered /10. I'm assuming the cards are stamped after they are signed? Or if they are stamped before, it's possible the guy just signed the wrong one... I'm sure Oswaldo Arcia has very little idea about what goes on in the collecting industry.

As bad as some of the quotes associated with this case look here, I would just give it a chance for everything to come out.

Of course Topps could've made an error in serial number but Mike is a smart guy. He would've flipped it over, seen the error, and then created a thread on BO about the crazy error he just pulled. He wouldn't have sent it off to be graded and never mention it on these forums. No way.

[ChicagoCubsWS]

Dude seemed fishy from the get-go.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt FOR NOW until the source comes out and tells us flat out.

[stamkos]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

His dog did it?

No, speaking as if topps did it. It wouldn't surprise me at all. I have no reason to not believe mike is being honest here. All this really is, is some he said she said BS. You don't ruin reps over one accusation. We don't even know if it's true, there is no solid evidence.