Harry Potter Artbox Autographs

[triplefrog]

Rarity is normally the first consideration , problem is because most non sports cards are not numbered you can never be sure how many of a particular card there are . Those of us long time collectors remember the precipitous dive many Inkworks cards took when they closed and sold off a large amount of cards they had kept back .

For me personally it is then how legible the signature is followed by how good the design and photograph are .

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by triplefrog

Rarity is normally the first consideration , problem is because most non sports cards are not numbered you can never be sure how many of a particular card there are . Those of us long time collectors remember the precipitous dive many Inkworks cards took when they closed and sold off a large amount of cards they had kept back .

For me personally it is then how legible the signature is followed by how good the design and photograph are .

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here.

These, not shockingingly, are similar values in sports cards. Design and autograph quality really matter. Rarity is an incredibly important variable, though. Likely the most important.

But within that group of values, a players FIRST of anything is incredibly important. LeBron James Exquisite Auto Patch /99 is worth about a million dollars. The Exquisite Auto Patch from the next year is worth like $30,000. 33.3x! Pretty incredible.

So, I'm pretty sure that makes our Hermoine PoA's worth, what, about 33.3 x the $10,050 = $334k, right? Teasing! Teasing! I'm just being silly.

But what's clear is that an actor's first auto does not have the same type of premium as it does for an athlete. That's pretty interesting!

[daxwills]

Originally Posted by the27guy

But what's clear is that an actor's first auto does not have the same type of premium as it does for an athlete. That's pretty interesting!

I would chalk that up to decades of "rookie cards are the best sports cards to have". There are less 87 Michael Jordans than 86 Jordan rookies. Yeah no one gives a crap they want the rookie.

Design, auto clarity, if you can get a matching "set" of all the main characters, all seem to trump the rookie non-sports thing. Rarity matters, but if we're talking 50 vs 100 I'd rather have the cool design that matches my other cards. Like I prefer the true blood "bordered" auto's. Same rarity, I just find the design better. Now when we get to the "stupidly rare" territory (the first contact brent spiner auto) that thing is kinda ugly, I believe the only auto in that set, but by god you can buy 10 or even 20 other brent spiner auto's for the cost of that one.

[the27guy]

Dax, I've thought about that point on the MJ 86 vs 87. Sports cards are, to be frank, all I know. It's interesting to me that there are nuances that are different. I wonder if it will always be that way. As for me, I will continue placing a premium on the FIRST auto of a given actor/character. But understand now that others may value them more equally than I do.





The 5th of 17 Harry Potter Artbox products was the Goblet of Fire Update.



Six months after the original GoF set, Artbox crafted an update set that (similar to the POAU set) far outdid the original.

Remember, the big cards from the original GoF were the limited Ron Weasley (redmeption) /50 card with the Cedric Diggory now taking the top sales spot - but the Update set included both Harry and a redemption for a card that’s on the all time Harry Potter short list - the GoF quad featuring autographs and movie used wardrobe cards of each of the four TriWizard champions.



Other than a few random “death eaters” auto/wardrobe cards, the quad is the only wardrobe/auto card in the series history.

The card, along with the Harry are each limited to 100.

Remember, Harry only has ten autographs across all 17 HP Artbox Products. This product as well as the HP POAU are the only ones with two Harry autos, though unlike PoAU, the quad in this is a redemption card.

Beckett has graded five copies of the quad and PSA has graded four copies.

You’ll notice that neither this set, nor the original has Hermoine in it. Stay tuned to future posts to learn about the Hermoine GOF Auto.


Quick aside, I'd just love to havea representative of Artbox be able to confirm why autographs came out in the order in which they did. Did Artbox send all Goblet of Fire autographs out at once, but find that some weren't returned as quickly? If so, then why did they use SOME redemptions? Was it to ensure that each product had an actor who was "hit-worthy"? It's super interesting.

[daxwills]

Now here’s a good hypothetical. Emma Watson is iconic as Hermione and has lots of roles under her belt. But let’s be honest, she’s Hermione first. But let’s pretend she had a minor role in an obscure film that came out before Harry Potter and for some reason it had autos. Would you still place an emphasis on the rookie auto or would you prefer first Hermione auto even though it was no longer her rookie auto?

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by daxwills

Now here’s a good hypothetical. Emma Watson is iconic as Hermione and has lots of roles under her belt. But let’s be honest, she’s Hermione first. But let’s pretend she had a minor role in an obscure film that came out before Harry Potter and for some reason it had autos. Would you still place an emphasis on the rookie auto or would you prefer first Hermione auto even though it was no longer her rookie auto?

This is a great hypothetical! My answer here will be different than most people who I have met since beginning the collection.

So, I can say for me, that "Emma Watson" doesn't really matter. Haha. It's true. I couldn't name two other movies she's been in (Beauty and the Beast is the only one I know of). I'm not a pop-culture guy. I'm a Harry Potter guy. So, for me, I rarely even call the cards "Emma Watson cards". Haha. They're Hermoine autograph cards.

[daxwills]

She was great in perks of being a wallflower and little women. I would suggest watching those. But I get it. I have autographs of the 3 people who’ve played lisbeth salander. I don’t care what else they do.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by daxwills

She was great in perks of being a wallflower and little women. I would suggest watching those. But I get it. I have autographs of the 3 people who’ve played lisbeth salander. I don’t care what else they do.

Great thoughts. I should check those movies out.

Another interesting thought....

Let me put in a caveat that I think there are "card collectors" and "autograph collectors". I have a friend who buys cards for the autographs that are on them. It's all that matters. In basketball, whether an auto is from old-school Classic, or Press Pass or Upper Deck or Panini... he cares (by far) mostly about the autograph.

But I'm a card collector (who loves autographs). If I look at my basketball card collection, only 2 of my top 10 cards are autographs, (but 10 of my top 20 are).

I collect cards. And when I want an auto, it's almost always an auto card that came out of the pack autographed. But the set/product/design/etc is so crucial.

[daxwills]

If money was no object, it really depends on what I would want signed. Michael Jordan I want one of those black with red pin stripes bulls jerseys from UDA. Emma Watson I’d want a cool signed photo from one of the later movies. But star trek I want the whole cast from the same auto card set and whatever design I like best. That’s my favorite thing. There is no right or wrong answers. Makes cordial conversations fun.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by daxwills

If money was no object, it really depends on what I would want signed. Michael Jordan I want one of those black with red pin stripes bulls jerseys from UDA. Emma Watson I’d want a cool signed photo from one of the later movies. But star trek I want the whole cast from the same auto card set and whatever design I like best. That’s my favorite thing. There is no right or wrong answers. Makes cordial conversations fun.

100%. No right answers. Collecting is about what YOU like. And that's the best thing about it. You do YOU. Once you stop trying to keep up with the Joneses and you do your thing, that's the place you want to be.

[daxwills]

Originally Posted by the27guy

100%. No right answers. Collecting is about what YOU like. And that's the best thing about it. You do YOU. Once you stop trying to keep up with the Joneses and you do your thing, that's the place you want to be.

To be fair, I only own a few pieces anymore. It got expensive, time consuming, and ate up a lot of living space. Which I admittedly downsized way smaller than most people, and it was my own choice, no regrets. My favorite autograph I got last year was Kim Director (goth chick from Blair Witch 2). It's valued at about, um, nothing? I mean I'm not sure who the hell I'd sell it to so I can't imagine putting a price on it. So, 10 bucks? lol

Which is why I like this thread and your posts. You've got a small fortune in HP cards. But you didn't come in throwing them around trying to impress anyone. You brought information and numbers and statistics on something that is really hard to piece together anymore. That's how it should be, in an ideal setting. It's inviting and we can all contribute and learn. I can't believe the dude from Twilight outsells some Watson's. (I know I know he's done other stuff including being Batman)

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by daxwills

To be fair, I only own a few pieces anymore. It got expensive, time consuming, and ate up a lot of living space. Which I admittedly downsized way smaller than most people, and it was my own choice, no regrets. My favorite autograph I got last year was Kim Director (goth chick from Blair Witch 2). It's valued at about, um, nothing? I mean I'm not sure who the hell I'd sell it to so I can't imagine putting a price on it. So, 10 bucks? lol

Which is why I like this thread and your posts. You've got a small fortune in HP cards. But you didn't come in throwing them around trying to impress anyone. You brought information and numbers and statistics on something that is really hard to piece together anymore. That's how it should be, in an ideal setting. It's inviting and we can all contribute and learn. I can't believe the dude from Twilight outsells some Watson's. (I know I know he's done other stuff including being Batman)

Super kind words and thank you. I wanna see the Blair Witch auto! lol.

I have always loved talking about different aspects of cards. It's probably why I was able to work at a shop for 7 years and why I started Basketball Card Fanatic magazine. Cards are cool. Design. Rarity. Values. Players. Pull rates. Populations. Variations. Each provide enough variables and passions to talk about stuff forever!! I literally love writing/talking about cards. lol.

I wish there were more contributors in this thread. Thank you for participating! Haha. Makes it feel less like an echo chamber.

I have 12 more products to review one way or another. lol. It's better to do it with someone who is at least reading the posts. lol.

[daxwills]

Fun side note, I've been to the filming location for this shot and I got a picture of me laying on this tombstone smoking a cigarette trying to duplicate this shot as much as possible. Apparently too many people were getting on the tombstones from the film as the church added a pointy gate around them. But yes I've been reading this as I was quite busy when the Harry Potter films came and went. It was my son who started reading the books and watching the movies and then video games, lego's, funko's, at some point I'll take him to Florida. So this is collecting history I was unaware of and finding out that these cards were not always so valued (that I had assumed prior to this) but that they were a pain to pull then. Like if you open a box of Star Trek (I love Star Trek) you got a decent shot at pulling a main character in every box.

[Raywoo888]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Dax, I've thought about that point on the MJ 86 vs 87. Sports cards are, to be frank, all I know. It's interesting to me that there are nuances that are different. I wonder if it will always be that way. As for me, I will continue placing a premium on the FIRST auto of a given actor/character. But understand now that others may value them more equally than I do.





The 5th of 17 Harry Potter Artbox products was the Goblet of Fire Update.



Six months after the original GoF set, Artbox crafted an update set that (similar to the POAU set) far outdid the original.

Remember, the big cards from the original GoF were the limited Ron Weasley (redmeption) /50 card with the Cedric Diggory now taking the top sales spot - but the Update set included both Harry and a redemption for a card that’s on the all time Harry Potter short list - the GoF quad featuring autographs and movie used wardrobe cards of each of the four TriWizard champions.



Other than a few random “death eaters” auto/wardrobe cards, the quad is the only wardrobe/auto card in the series history.

The card, along with the Harry are each limited to 100.

Remember, Harry only has ten autographs across all 17 HP Artbox Products. This product as well as the HP POAU are the only ones with two Harry autos, though unlike PoAU, the quad in this is a redemption card.

Beckett has graded five copies of the quad and PSA has graded four copies.

You’ll notice that neither this set, nor the original has Hermoine in it. Stay tuned to future posts to learn about the Hermoine GOF Auto.


Quick aside, I'd just love to havea representative of Artbox be able to confirm why autographs came out in the order in which they did. Did Artbox send all Goblet of Fire autographs out at once, but find that some weren't returned as quickly? If so, then why did they use SOME redemptions? Was it to ensure that each product had an actor who was "hit-worthy"? It's super interesting.

This conversation has been a fun read. I've followed the old forums, picked up a few things here and there, been to SDCC at the Artbox table and listened to dealers and collectors. I personally love Artbox for what they produced. This small company took chances and produced some great cards between 2004 and 2011.


My 2 cents - Artbox was a small company, but Harry Potter was their lifeblood at the time. They mostly made one-off sets, so HP was their one golden license that made money over and over. Their HP license for cards was tied to movie releases, and they were not able to negotiate extensions & the card license was likely not offered to be picked up when the movies ended. Unfortunately, this also ended Artbox. It's very clear that they decided to split their limited "hit-worthy" signatures to support more sets - everyone does this.

The GOF autos were probably signed in 2005, and planned for the GOF Movie (2005), GOF Update (2006) and Memorable Moments Series 1 (first mixed movie content set released 2006) One of the Big 3 anchored each release for the autographs.

I wish there was someone from Artbox to chime in, but it's important to understand a non-sport collector buying mindset (at that time), distribution model, and choices from a reactive small company like Artbox. Here's my take on the HP market around 2006:

1) Artbox did great with POA & POAU (2004) setting the highest expectations with the big 3 signing, numbered props & costume cards (a first), etc. However, POAU was technically overproduced & diluted (not as bad as Topps Star Wars like today), but Artbox still had POAU boxes when they went under in 2011/12. Although cases of POAU remained unopened for years to come, a masterful and complete set was created over two releases that satisfied everyone. This set took Inkworks costume cards to a new level and added props. Autographs were a balance as Rittenhouse was taking autographs to a new level. Topps was - (wash, rinse & repeat as always).

2) The completist non-sport collector mindset was broken due to the POA & POAU set. At the time - It's the big 3 autographs that drove the market. With Emma & Harry selling for $300-$500 despite being hard to get, most POAU cases lost money. Rare costumes and props helped, but there were so many commons. 2 autos per case at best also were mostly commons. Ohh...the stories. Suffice it to say - big sets with slimmer odds we a new thing as buying 1-2 cases use to complete master sets for collectors.

3) Releases of Sorcerer Stone (2005) and Chamber of Secrets (2006) followed and had no big 3 autos - relying on a balance of autos, props and costumes. Both did not get update releases. The autographs were good and relevant for the movie with a few low tier repeat signers. These two sets were "catch up sets" as Artbox was preparing for the current movie Goblet of Fire Release (2005) and their card set releases in 2005/2006.

4) HP collectors had their wallets stretched with 5 releases between 2005-2006. The big 3 GOF autos were stategically used for GOF, GOFU, & MM1. Love to Artbox getting the Big 3 to sign all on a second card style again (done 5x total). I suspect there was probably a short window of time to get the cards signed around the release of the movies where the actors were "required/open" to sign promotive materials around movie release time. The Big 3 may have done this for 4 movie releases (POA, GOF, OOTP & HBP)

Robert Pattinson autos may also support this. He was just starting his career in 2005 as Twilight was not released until NOV 2008 (almost 3 years later). I believe he signed all (3) of his GOF related autos around the same time (2005-6). He never signed for Twilight Inkworks or NECA releases starting 2008 & forward, but was was included with World of HP 2nd Edition (also released in 2008). All seems like a one time deal that was a destined to be a sleeper hit.

5) By 2006 - Artbox had pretty much established a predictable release schedule of a movie set, movie update set & a mixed movie release every 2 years. So many releases led to multiple autograph redemption cards starting in 2006 at all tiers. The saving grace was Artbox would redeem expired redemptions if they had them in stock - including Quad autos from GOF years later if a redemption was found. This contributed to stable prices seen in my opinion for years to come.

6) For collectors, it appeared that people bought what they liked as sets were large and there were too many limited cards (SDCC, UK only, and low numbers). Autographs seemed to drive most sets as they were unique & repeat autos of the Big 3 were always welcome. Collect the style you like. Some things like multiple versions of black robes/cloaks (limited to 100, 750, 2000+) between each main characters and then a generic students (male & female separately of course) - (LOL -enough!! ) made you mind your budget to save for a special piece (for example the Sorcerer's Stone for me).

One can make the case that the Golden years were about to start between 2006-2009 for everyone.

Thanks for the read. There's so much history out there ...

[Grid]

Originally Posted by daxwills

Now here’s a good hypothetical. Emma Watson is iconic as Hermione and has lots of roles under her belt. But let’s be honest, she’s Hermione first. But let’s pretend she had a minor role in an obscure film that came out before Harry Potter and for some reason it had autos. Would you still place an emphasis on the rookie auto or would you prefer first Hermione auto even though it was no longer her rookie auto?

So hard to compare actors to players, when everyone and their uncle is trying to label everything a RC.

By definition: "A rookie card is a trading card that is the first to feature an athlete after that athlete has participated in the highest level of competition within their sport"

The last part is key, as the hobby has viewed lesser minor league or college cards, as first appearance but not a rookie card. For it to qualify as an RC, it has to be their 1st year with their major league team.

Using that for Watson, while she might have had autos in minor roles, or ones from minor movies. Harry Potter would have been her "highest level" and thus considered her "rookie auto".

If she had signed cards prior to that, they would be her "first" but not her rookie. Much like with predraft and minor league cards on the sports side.

Another note, when it comes to sports, smaller indy sets, like regionals, do not carry the RC tag. Like Michael Jordan and his "Star" cards. Even though came out before Fleer. Fleer was the major company making NBA cards, so that became his rookie. So if there was a small indy set of Potter cards that came out first, I would still think the Art Box ones would carry the RC tag.

[the27guy]

@dax, Thanks for sharing! I love the way collectors talk about their favorite (fill in the blanks) " I've been to the filming location for this shot and I got a picture of me laying on this tombstone". Amazing. Love love love the passion. And cool to hear about the HP connection with your son. I've mentioned this before here, but we're totally an HP family. My oldest kids and I have been through the series before (I read aloud, do all the voices, haha). We're about 1/4 of the way in to HBD. We get to learn about the Gaunt family in the next chapter. We love the movies, but don't let our kids watch the PG13 movies until they're a little older.

@raywoo, I really appreciate your response, here. Thank you. Your memory of the releases is really appreciated. I wish I had been a collector of HP at that time. With basketball, I could write a book every year about how the hobby changed, etc, but for me, hearing from people like you on this HP stuff is awesome. A few questions.

Do you remember people completing the PoAu master set? I'd guess that the props especially would make that tough. Do you remember other cards that were considered key/difficult to find?

Were the early sets the most popular and then later sets maybe more dificult for Artbox to move?

Any background on any of these topics would be interesting!

@grid - really good point on earlier releases not necessarily being viewed as rookies. In most cases, even if they're not given the RC designation, they still have such a cult following though. The MJ Star, for example, in average grade, is considered an XRC, and in average condition sells for more than the 86 Fleer. I'd personally be interested at some point in buying a nice XRC. But for me, the Fleer is so readily available, it's just not an interesting card to own. I own one, for sentimental purposes, but I've literally had 20+ go through my hands over the years, and I never have any regret moving them. If they go up, that's fine. Value is value. But it'll always be findable. To me, and I think to a lot of collectors, the difficult chase is what makes collecting fun. Finding things that are HARD to find (for me in the HP world, the triple auto) is the reward.

Thanks everyone!!

[daxwills]

Originally Posted by Grid

So hard to compare actors to players, when everyone and their uncle is trying to label everything a RC.

By definition: "A rookie card is a trading card that is the first to feature an athlete after that athlete has participated in the highest level of competition within their sport"

The last part is key, as the hobby has viewed lesser minor league or college cards, as first appearance but not a rookie card. For it to qualify as an RC, it has to be their 1st year with their major league team.

Using that for Watson, while she might have had autos in minor roles, or ones from minor movies. Harry Potter would have been her "highest level" and thus considered her "rookie auto".

If she had signed cards prior to that, they would be her "first" but not her rookie. Much like with predraft and minor league cards on the sports side.

Another note, when it comes to sports, smaller indy sets, like regionals, do not carry the RC tag. Like Michael Jordan and his "Star" cards. Even though came out before Fleer. Fleer was the major company making NBA cards, so that became his rookie. So if there was a small indy set of Potter cards that came out first, I would still think the Art Box ones would carry the RC tag.

That's why it's almost impossible to compare the two. If it's a S.A.G. film, and she was in it, there's your rookie card. Because in sports we call that professional sports. Even if your team sucks, goes 0-16, you're only the third string QB, hey you appeared in a Panini set, congrats on your rookie card. Even if you got traded, turned into mega god quarterback, won 10 superbowls, and broke every record they record, your rookie would still be on the crappy team. Now student films, non-sag films, you could call those XRC's. But again, it's a terrible comparison. Hell look at wrestling. They have some very obscure rookie cards that to no other collecting niche can I think of would they be rookie cards.

[daxwills]

Originally Posted by the27guy

@dax, Thanks for sharing! I love the way collectors talk about their favorite (fill in the blanks) " I've been to the filming location for this shot and I got a picture of me laying on this tombstone". Amazing. Love love love the passion. And cool to hear about the HP connection with your son. I've mentioned this before here, but we're totally an HP family. My oldest kids and I have been through the series before (I read aloud, do all the voices, haha). We're about 1/4 of the way in to HBD. We get to learn about the Gaunt family in the next chapter. We love the movies, but don't let our kids watch the PG13 movies until they're a little older.

It's my favorite hobby. Long time ago, I became a gear head and after that added motorcycles. But to me going to "meets" every weekend to park them so others can look at them and go "oh that's nice" was boring. So I realized that there are a crap ton of horror movie shooting locations and "haunted" locations all along the east coast. Now we had someplace interesting to drive what we built. This was long before the tv shows (which, seriously, I cannot believe there are so many of) so it was more isolated and risky back them. Now it's risky for all new reasons, your ass will be arrested lol.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by daxwills

Fun side note, I've been to the filming location for this shot and I got a picture of me laying on this tombstone smoking a cigarette trying to duplicate this shot as much as possible. Apparently too many people were getting on the tombstones from the film as the church added a pointy gate around them. But yes I've been reading this as I was quite busy when the Harry Potter films came and went. It was my son who started reading the books and watching the movies and then video games, lego's, funko's, at some point I'll take him to Florida. So this is collecting history I was unaware of and finding out that these cards were not always so valued (that I had assumed prior to this) but that they were a pain to pull then. Like if you open a box of Star Trek (I love Star Trek) you got a decent shot at pulling a main character in every box.

Isn't that picture from Blair Witch 2?

[daxwills]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Isn't that picture from Blair Witch 2?

Yes, it is.

[daxwills]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Isn't that picture from Blair Witch 2?

Wait I think I see your confusion. The cemetery shots from 1 and 2 were done in the same cemetery. Just at two very different vantage points. You can “trace” the line from the exit in 2 back to the grave really easily. I do recommend having both on an iPad or something because some stuff gets tricky. As of a few years ago the giant pile of dirt heather talks in front of had sat for so long grass/weeds were growing on it. Took us like half an hour in very hot conditions to figure this out.

[Raywoo888]

Originally Posted by the27guy

@raywoo, I really appreciate your response, here. Thank you. Your memory of the releases is really appreciated. I wish I had been a collector of HP at that time. With basketball, I could write a book every year about how the hobby changed, etc, but for me, hearing from people like you on this HP stuff is awesome. A few questions.

Do you remember people completing the PoAu master set? I'd guess that the props especially would make that tough. Do you remember other cards that were considered key/difficult to find?

Were the early sets the most popular and then later sets maybe more dificult for Artbox to move?

Any background on any of these topics would be interesting!

Thanks everyone!!

Like any hobby, there are super-collectors that want everything and every variation. There weren't many, but a few people did complete runs of PoAu and other sets. Some rare props and costumes by number may be difficult, but they were mostly sought after by completists. Also, I know that senior Artbox executives had master sets.

For PoA & PoAu rarity, hands-down the main cast autos and the grail triple auto, and that hasn’t changed. They are near equal in count to the rarest props, but probably with 100x the buyers. For props, the Marauders Map and Chocolate Frogs were popular because they are memorable. For costumes, it’s the Hermoine costume regardless of count. It seems looks and popularity is more important to most.

PoA sold out, and everyone wanted the first Emma auto. I strongly believe there are more than 50 based on turnover over the years. You have a few too, so 100 or more is likely. PoAu did not sell out until they closed and lucky dealers bought up the stock. The boxes routinely showed up in the SDCC goodie bags over the years and on their website. I can’t recall the # of boxes made. Artbox never stated autograph odds or numbers made.

The movie boxes of GOF, OOTP & HBP all had the Big 3 autos, so they were popular and completable. The first set sold out (6000 or 7000 boxes) and the update boxes that followed varied higher or lower. Artbox probably accounted for demand and what they held back to make their decision. The mixed release sets (MM1, 3D2, H&V, 3D & MM2) seemed the weakest (in order) because they were stand- alone releases between movies. Box counts reflected this. The 3D sets were expensive to produce so less was made. MM1 had the “missing” GOF autos, 3D2 had the Big 3 (only vertical autos made), and the others had only 1 or 2 of the Big 3 autos.

Something that stands out as rare….try to find the HBP Tom Felton Autograph (SD08-01) limited to 50 & randomly inserted into SDCC goodie bags in 2008.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by Raywoo888

Like any hobby, there are super-collectors that want everything and every variation. There weren't many, but a few people did complete runs of PoAu and other sets. Some rare props and costumes by number may be difficult, but they were mostly sought after by completists. Also, I know that senior Artbox executives had master sets.

For PoA & PoAu rarity, hands-down the main cast autos and the grail triple auto, and that hasn’t changed. They are near equal in count to the rarest props, but probably with 100x the buyers. For props, the Marauders Map and Chocolate Frogs were popular because they are memorable. For costumes, it’s the Hermoine costume regardless of count. It seems looks and popularity is more important to most.

PoA sold out, and everyone wanted the first Emma auto. I strongly believe there are more than 50 based on turnover over the years. You have a few too, so 100 or more is likely. PoAu did not sell out until they closed and lucky dealers bought up the stock. The boxes routinely showed up in the SDCC goodie bags over the years and on their website. I can’t recall the # of boxes made. Artbox never stated autograph odds or numbers made.

The movie boxes of GOF, OOTP & HBP all had the Big 3 autos, so they were popular and completable. The first set sold out (6000 or 7000 boxes) and the update boxes that followed varied higher or lower. Artbox probably accounted for demand and what they held back to make their decision. The mixed release sets (MM1, 3D2, H&V, 3D & MM2) seemed the weakest (in order) because they were stand- alone releases between movies. Box counts reflected this. The 3D sets were expensive to produce so less was made. MM1 had the “missing” GOF autos, 3D2 had the Big 3 (only vertical autos made), and the others had only 1 or 2 of the Big 3 autos.

Something that stands out as rare….try to find the HBP Tom Felton Autograph (SD08-01) limited to 50 & randomly inserted into SDCC goodie bags in 2008.

Awesome stuff. The PoA hermoine print run is a great question. On the original Yak Shack thread, you can see Jeff Alender’s estimation with 8% of the run had the Hermoine at a print run of 180. https://web.archive.org/web/20101106...ic,5364.0.html

But then, later this was updated to 50, and if you look at nslists (also run by Jeff Allender) that’s still where it is. I’ve talked to several big HP collectors who have differing opinions on this. Some believe it’s closer to 180, some believe 50 is right. I prioritized finding copies of that card, as I really do think it’s an important piece of history. She’s likely 13 when she signs it, and you can see her adjusting her sig throughout the cards. It’s probably my favorite card after the triple.

But unless we see a real move toward grading the cards (which would give us pop data), I don’t know how we’ll ever really know.

I know a few guys looking for the SDCC Draco. Do you know if that’s a jumbo like the Luna SDCC? I picked one of those up. Definitely rarer than her other autographs…. But I do prefer cards that came from an actual set over one-off’s. That said, I’d love the draco SDCC. My only Draco is the HBP w Harry dual.

One last thought. The big three are available (in style at least) for POA, OOTP, and GOF. Those are the only 3 moves that each has an individual stand alone auto, right? HBP has a stand alone Ron and a Hermoine, but Harry only has a dual. Deathly Hallows, there is no Harry.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by daxwills

That's why it's almost impossible to compare the two. If it's a S.A.G. film, and she was in it, there's your rookie card. Because in sports we call that professional sports. Even if your team sucks, goes 0-16, you're only the third string QB, hey you appeared in a Panini set, congrats on your rookie card. Even if you got traded, turned into mega god quarterback, won 10 superbowls, and broke every record they record, your rookie would still be on the crappy team. Now student films, non-sag films, you could call those XRC's. But again, it's a terrible comparison. Hell look at wrestling. They have some very obscure rookie cards that to no other collecting niche can I think of would they be rookie cards.

I agree, and that is why I said its hard to compare to sports cards. But calling any SAG film appearance an RC, because its on the professional level, isnt an automatic qualifier in my mind. That is why I disagree with you saying in sports, anything on the professional level would be a rookie.

Like the USFL, Canadian league, WFL ETC cards eventual NFL players have out there, will carry the XRC tag. All of them are professional leagues. But not "the highest level of competition within their sport". Making their first NFL card, the RC.

But again, its so hard to compare and calling everything not in sports a rookie now just confuses things. The hobby should have taken non-sports cards from comics, with "first appearance". But then that could be debated as well.

[daxwills]

Yeah “rookie card” is a useless term outside of sports cards. Fun to think about though.