Where are we at on Salvador Perez?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

I'm not saying or advocating that any one thing should determine HOF legitimacy. But the stats matter, man. And there's just no way around the fact that Sal's stats don't stack up to the other players in the HOF, even if we limit it to just the other catchers in the HOF. Or even if we limit it to just comparing peaks. Sal's just not in the same category with any of those things



I'm also not saying that narrative doesn't matter, and I'm not even saying Sal definitely doesn't have enough going on for a narrative to get him in. But I don't think it's illogical at all to question if there's enough there. Hell, look at Jorge Posada as comparison again, his career stats are more compelling than Sal's are today, and his narrative has to be at least equal to Sal's if not more, being the everyday catcher for nearly 20 years for extremely good Yankees teams, winning *4* championships, and also having some AS/SS awards. And Posada was off the ballot in one year. It's not a perfect 1 to 1 comparison, but I think it has merit



Again, not at all saying Sal has no shot or will never or should never get in. But when you look objectively, you really have to put a lot on the "narrative", and I just don't know today if that will be enough or not

Who else was on the ballot the year Posada was on?

There is more to a candidacy than the player's career. External factors like a crowded ballot, or the makeup of the writers at the time, or hall of fame contemporaries at his position, that can play a factor. Posada falling off in different circumstances doesn't really tell us much about Perez's circumstances and chances of election.

Under different circumstances, Freehan would already be in, Posada might have stayed on the ballot long enough to get a shot, Carlos Delgado would be in, and the list goes on and on. Looking at another player in different circumstances isn't as predictive as you think.

The fact is, Perez doesn't have to be compared to Ivan Rodriguez and Mike Piazza, like Posada was. He is in an era without strong challengers. So he rises to the top. And since catchers are underrepresented, there is a bit of a vacuum that will likely result in a few catchers all getting in soon (Yadi, Posey, Perez, etc...) because writers recognize the lack of catchers.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Handsome Wes

I think an apt comparison is Bill Freehan. I know it's not apples-to-apples - but Freehan was *the* best catcher in the American league for a decade. He had a couple of outstanding seasons (top three in MVP vote twice), earned his way onto 11 All-Star teams and won five Gold Gloves.

And his career numbers... if you go by WAR (which basically everyone does when it comes to the HOF discussion), it's lacking. Especially so when you consider that in the era *after* Freehan's dominance you have players like Carlton Fisk and Johnny Bench.

Perez is great. 9 All-Star appearances, 5 Gold Gloves, a WS MVP trophy, and such. He's the best catcher of the 2010s in the American League.

Is he on the same level as Yadier Molina, or Joe Mauer, or Buster Posey, etc? Nah, he's a step below. But if you're a Big Hall guy, by all means, put him in Cooperstown.

Most voters don't look at WAR. They look at traditional stats.

Freehan played 1740 games, had 1591 Hits, had 200 HRs and 758 RBIs. He hit .262/.340/.412 OPS+112

Perez has played 1552 games, has 1571 Hits, has 273 HRs and 916 RBIs. He his .267/.303/.459 OPS+105

Perez's best season was .273/.316/.544 OPS+ 128 with 48 HRs and 121 RBI

Freehan's best season was .263/.366/.454 OPS+ 145 with 25 HRs and 84 RBIs.

I don't know how accurate dWAR is but Perez leads 14.8 to 12.0. I do know that Freehan gave up the most SB in the AL 5 times where as Perez is the active leader in Caught Stealing %.

I feel Perez is the better defensive catcher. Perez is better offensively at everything except drawing walks. WAR loves guys who walk a lot. Hall of Fame voters love guys who hit for average with good slugging percentage and produce a lot of runs.

One other thing in Perez's favor is he hit .271/.330/.456 OPS+ 119 with 27 HRs and 104 RBIs. In otherwards in his 13th season he had a better offensive season (other than walks) than Freehan had in his best season.

Perez plays in an easier era for hitters, but in a difficult park to hit HRs in. Last season Kauffman Stadium was last in the AL in HRs allowed. Even when Perez hit 48 HRs, Kauffman Stadium was next to last with 160 allowed. Freehan played a more difficult scoring era but in an easy stadium to hit HRs. In Freehan's best season 1968, Tiger Stadium allowed 182 HRs with Freehan hitting 25. 2nd most in the AL was Fenway with 119. WAR and OPS+ ignore this stadium factor.

Freehan has a lot of people advocating for him as a VC HOF pick, but if Perez has a few more productive years, he will have the counting stats, hits, HR and RBIs that will get him elected by the BBWAA.

[Poorboy]

I dunno about the stats part of it war twar gwar ect ect ect
But I hope he gets in when it’s his turn

[jduds]

His JAWS score is close to Brian McCann's and his WAR7 isn't doing him favors, That said I think he has a decent shot due to the lack of other potentially HOF-worthy catchers in his generation beyond Molina and Realmuto. That's evident in his 9 All-Star game appearances. Playing for the Royals his entire career will likely help as well assuming he doesn't start swapping teams constantly. He's a clear top 3 catcher of his generation (I put Posey and Mauer in the generation before) and I think that gives him a fighting chance.

[JRX]

He's 13th in fwar among catchers since he joined the league. And for all the war haters our there, the people voting are getting younger and more analytically focused. If they do vote in Perez I'd love to see their reasoning why WAR doesn't matter.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

I’m on the record as believing he will be indicted one day (most likely the veterans committee). I’ve been waiting to add this card to my collection for a while, but since he has very few RC logo cards out there, it’s always been pricy, but I was finally able to find one at a reasonable number. SGC 9.5’s are always a great way to get great looking cards at a cheap price.