The Zion 'Fatboi' Williamson Career LDL/HDL Tracker | BBW Appreciation Megathread.

[jcardstore]

I guess Dwight Howard had a couple seasons where he was a top 5 player but he was also an elite defender and rebounder.

[mwheeler27]

I know a few people who never heard of the Pelicans before that now record and watch every game because of...Zion. They didn’t tune in to watch Blake every game, or ever.

Was Zion’s first game, where he went 4-4 shooting 3’s, complete freakish luck, or did he have it in him the whole time? Was it his mental state of being focused because it was his first game, in front of a crowd, during a potential sweet comeback? I’m going to more than guess the latter.

- Zion has his name. That almost alone gives him more love from kids.

- Zion is in rare company right now statistically speaking, throughout all of NBA history, less than 40 games in. Nobody can intelligently deny this.

- Zion isn’t playing in front of crowds right now. I wonder what the roar of a crowd, both home and away, is going to do to his focus and drive to excel.

Saying absolutely stupid things like...

Originally Posted by k13

Jordan/Kobe were terrible past their prime.
Complete trash.

...gives a person zero credibility. If you really want to get your/a point across, toning it down just enough to get back to reality would help a bunch.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Legit question for the ppl who refuse to acknowledge the clear deficiencies in his game.

What do all the top 5 players in the NBA have in common and for you guys who think he's just fine without a jumper what can he do to become a top 5 NBA player?

Please don't bring up what Shaq did in the 2000s because it is absolutely irrelevant. The game was totally different and I can't think of a top 5 player in the last decade who didn't have a jumpshot.

I don't think any Zion supporters here really think that he doesn't need to eventually develop other facets of his game. Nobody thinks that he doesn't have deficiencies. No superstar player in history was the same player at 20 that they were when they became a certifiable superstar.

I do, however, think that the doubters seem to think that what he is TODAY is what he will always be.

[cowboyzqna]

Saying absolutely stupid things like...



...gives a person zero credibility. If you really want to get your/a point across, toning it down just enough to get back to reality would help a bunch.[/QUOTE]



Yea... I had to block billy on the strength of that comment... I dont mind a troll... everyone gotta eat. But it's only so much stupid I can stomach lol.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

I don't think any Zion supporters here really think that he doesn't need to eventually develop other facets of his game. Nobody thinks that he doesn't have deficiencies. No superstar player in history was the same player at 20 that they were when they became a certifiable superstar.

I do, however, think that the doubters seem to think that what he is TODAY is what he will always be.

There have been people who said he doesn't need to develop a jumper which is why I was asking what else does he need to become a top 5 player if that is the case.

If you're buying Zion now you think that eventually he's going to be in that top5 nba player discussion, because anything less and he's not going to hold value long term.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

There have been people who said he doesn't need to develop a jumper which is why I was asking what else does he need to become a top 5 player if that is the case.

If you're buying Zion now you think that eventually he's going to be in that top5 nba player discussion, because anything less and he's not going to hold value long term.

Does Luka have a "jumper"? Or does he need to develop one too? Serious question.

Zion's FG%: 58%
Luka's FG%: 45%


Zion's 3 pt%: 37%
Luka's 3 pt%: 32%

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Legit question for the ppl who refuse to acknowledge the clear deficiencies in his game.

What do all the top 5 players in the NBA have in common and for you guys who think he's just fine without a jumper what can he do to become a top 5 NBA player?

Please don't bring up what Shaq did in the 2000s because it is absolutely irrelevant. The game was totally different and I can't think of a top 5 player in the last decade who didn't have a jumpshot.

I know we don’t agree on Zion, but I actually enjoy when you post on here because you spark good dialogue and share your views respectfully.

I don’t want to sound sensationalist about Zion, but I think if we’re being honest here, we don’t have good player comps for him because NOBODY has ever had his freakish conglomeration of size, strength, and quickness.

Shaq is in fact the best comp, not because they are the same player, but because his game was predicated on physical dominance rather than shooting. Shaq was taller, but Zion is quicker. I don’t think it’s fair to wave off what Zion brings to the table as irrelevant because the game is different now. Zion is different.

He’s a match up nightmare because he can blow past guards with his first step and still put up 30 on some of the best defensive bigs in the game. A little mid range jumper will be in the works, but he doesn’t need to depend on it.

I’m not going to say Zion’s one of the most complete players in the game, but his physical attributes don’t have off nights the way that most shooters do. Some players can be rendered virtually worthless on offense when they aren’t hitting their shot or take 25-30 shots to achieve what Zion is doing in 15-20.

Now, the Pelicans are crazy for not flanking him with a couple shooters on the wing, but it’s way easier to find a shooter than it is to find a Zion. I could only imagine the damage he would do on a team where you actually had to defend the perimeter.

Also, we can all probably agree his defense needs a lot of development, but when has that prevented anyone from being a hobby star?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mcgee2134]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Does Luka have a "jumper"? Or does he need to develop one too? Serious question.

Zion's FG%: 58%
Luka's FG%: 45%


Zion's 3 pt%: 37%
Luka's 3 pt%: 32%

Stick to football dude. You're comparing 3pt% when Zion has taken 19 shots in his CAREER. His first game he was 4-4, in his remaining 37 games he's shot exactly 20%.
Doncic average 8 attempts per game.
In saying that, they both suck at shooting 3's.

Zion doesn't NEED a jumper to be a damn good player, but he does if he wants to be an all time great.

[Derekbauer]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Does Luka have a "jumper"? Or does he need to develop one too? Serious question.

Zion's FG%: 58%
Luka's FG%: 45%


Zion's 3 pt%: 37%
Luka's 3 pt%: 32%

Lol, you really need to start watching basketball before commenting. Moving right along.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

I know we don’t agree on Zion, but I actually enjoy when you post on here because you spark good dialogue and share your views respectfully.

I don’t want to sound sensationalist about Zion, but I think if we’re being honest here, we don’t have good player comps for him because NOBODY has ever had his freakish conglomeration of size, strength, and quickness.

Shaq is in fact the best comp, not because they are the same player, but because his game was predicated on physical dominance rather than shooting. Shaq was taller, but Zion is quicker. I don’t think it’s fair to wave off what Zion brings to the table as irrelevant because the game is different now. Zion is different.

He’s a match up nightmare because he can blow past guards with his first step and still put up 30 on some of the best defensive bigs in the game. A little mid range jumper will be in the works, but he doesn’t need to depend on it.

I’m not going to say Zion’s one of the most complete players in the game, but his physical attributes don’t have off nights the way that most shooters do. Some players can be rendered virtually worthless on offense when they aren’t hitting their shot or take 25-30 shots to achieve what Zion is doing in 15-20.

Now, the Pelicans are crazy for not flanking him with a couple shooters on the wing, but it’s way easier to find a shooter than it is to find a Zion. I could only imagine the damage he would do on a team where you actually had to defend the perimeter.

Also, we can all probably agree his defense needs a lot of development, but when has that prevented anyone from being a hobby star?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So I will agree that the way the team is currently constructed definitely doesn't help Zion maximize his strengths.

It is kinda crazy that he's a totally unique player. I ask myself, is it eventually possible for Zion to average 30ppg if given enough shots and space to move? If so then there's potential for him to be a top 5 player.

I still think for him to truly become elite the defense needs to be way way better and for him to be fully maximized he needs to play next to an elite facilitator.

[k13]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

...gives a person zero credibility. If you really want to get your/a point across, toning it down just enough to get back to reality would help a bunch.

Kobe last two years was one of worst players in the NBA.
He shot 35% last season, worst in the NBA.

I know everyone here has to suck Kobe off but take off your blinders.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by k13

Kobe last two years was one of worst players in the NBA.
He shot 35% last season, worst in the NBA.

I know everyone here has to suck Kobe off but take off your blinders.

You not liking any player at all is what gives you zero credability

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Legit question for the ppl who refuse to acknowledge the clear deficiencies in his game.

What do all the top 5 players in the NBA have in common and for you guys who think he's just fine without a jumper what can he do to become a top 5 NBA player?

Please don't bring up what Shaq did in the 2000s because it is absolutely irrelevant. The game was totally different and I can't think of a top 5 player in the last decade who didn't have a jumpshot.

Giannis and Dwight didn't. I can argue Westbrook didn't or barely had one.

I don't think he'll be fine without a jumper but I don't think it needs to be a great one. If he hits 30% of his 3s he should be fine. For me, it's even more important for him to get his FT% in the mid 70s. It also wouldn't hurt if he becomes a better passer.

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

So I will agree that the way the team is currently constructed definitely doesn't help Zion maximize his strengths.

It is kinda crazy that he's a totally unique player. I ask myself, is it eventually possible for Zion to average 30ppg if given enough shots and space to move? If so then there's potential for him to be a top 5 player.

I still think for him to truly become elite the defense needs to be way way better and for him to be fully maximized he needs to play next to an elite facilitator.

Good takes.

I don’t know that he’s ever going to be elite defensively, but I don’t think it’s outside the realm of something that can be improved. I would take average defense with everything else he brings on the offensive side.

I don’t want to anger Pelicans fans out there, but I would love to see him on a team that seemed to be a bit more intent on allowing him to maximize his potential. A lot of his ability is being squandered by poor fitting pieces surrounding him.

I think he does average 30, but with a little development (he’s definitely not a finished product at 20) and a change of approach from the Pels. They need to trade for at least one true shooter immediately and let NAW play PG. Then, I would bring in a PG (this year if possible or the next if not) and let NAW play the 2 as Ninja mentioned.

The looming question is can you get the assets you need to be a contender and keep Ingram?


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[brothertona]

This draft is of utmost importance. To me it wouldn't be the worst idea to tank. If you were to add Evan Mobley, Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs or even Bouknight they'd be in a really strong place. You add a Duncan Robinson in free agency potentially or Kyle Lowry and you've got a pretty strong set-up.

[Derekbauer]

I think Zion averaging 30 a game will be a tough task for a few different reasons.

When you look at players who average 30 plus a game they have similar attributes to each other.

Ball dominated players
Deadly shooters
Terrific free throw shooters
Efficient scores

Zion only checks one of those four boxes. And he probably won’t ever check three of them.

Giannis can score 30 because he handles the ball on transition and most often sets up the half court game. He also hits a few threes.

Even a guy like embiid who is less ball dominant is a terrific free throw shooter (who shoots 10 a game) and also can shoot threes.

Then the obvious guys like Harden, Beal, Durant, Luka, trae, curry are lead guards or great shooters.


Zion will have no issues averaging 25-27 a game soon but to get to 30 he’s really gonna need to improve on a lot of facets of his game.

[interestingcool]

I dont think Zion's body will hold up for a long time. IMO.

[k13]

Originally Posted by Chris P

You not liking any player at all is what gives you zero credability

I like lots of players.
Just have to be realistic.

I probably have 50+ Zion cards.
Maybe even more.

Most people here now are just pumpers.

[k13]

Thing about Zion is...how the hell does he have so few rebounds?


Big body and supposedly crazy vertical plus rebounds are everywhere.


Is he just a lazy #@#@#@#@?

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by k13

Thing about Zion is...how the hell does he have so few rebounds?


Big body and supposedly crazy vertical plus rebounds are everywhere.


Is he just a lazy #@#@#@#@?

He's surrounded by other good rebounders and he's not in the paint for defensive rebounds.

[beavers]

I don't track Zion's prices too closely. How are they trending? I notice Luka has seen a slight dip recently. Possibly due to NFL Playoffs or lack of team success for the Mavs. Has this been the case with Zion too?

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by mcgee2134

Stick to football dude. You're comparing 3pt% when Zion has taken 19 shots in his CAREER. His first game he was 4-4, in his remaining 37 games he's shot exactly 20%.
Doncic average 8 attempts per game.
In saying that, they both suck at shooting 3's.

Zion doesn't NEED a jumper to be a damn good player, but he does if he wants to be an all time great.

Originally Posted by Derekbauer

Lol, you really need to start watching basketball before commenting. Moving right along.

It was actually a serious question. There are two candidates trying to claim the crown of "next hobby superstar" - Luka and Zion. The poster suggested that Zion needs to develop a jumper to become a Top 5 NBA player. Most everyone here can agree that Luka is considered a Top 5 NBA player today, however, he actually is terribly inefficient shooting the ball. The point being, why does Zion need to improve on this already when he's shooting 58% from the field? He's 20-years old. His shooting will develop over time. He can still be a Top 5 player in the league without a "jumper". Giannis won back-to-back MVP's without a jumper. Giannis doesn't need a jumper, he needs to learn to play in the post.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

It was actually a serious question. There are two candidates trying to claim the crown of "next hobby superstar" - Luka and Zion. The poster suggested that Zion needs to develop a jumper to become a Top 5 NBA player. Most everyone here can agree that Luka is considered a Top 5 NBA player today, however, he actually is terribly inefficient shooting the ball. The point being, why does Zion need to improve on this already when he's shooting 58% from the field? He's 20-years old. His shooting will develop over time. He can still be a Top 5 player in the league without a "jumper". Giannis won back-to-back MVP's without a jumper. Giannis doesn't need a jumper, he needs to learn to play in the post.

This guy is invested in Zion heavily lol.

If you think shooting is the only thing that makes Luka a top5 NBA player you're clearly not watching him play.

If you're comparing FG% for 2 totally different players and 3pt% for a guy who doesn't shoot them there's no reasonable discussion to be had here

[Derekbauer]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

It was actually a serious question. There are two candidates trying to claim the crown of "next hobby superstar" - Luka and Zion. The poster suggested that Zion needs to develop a jumper to become a Top 5 NBA player. Most everyone here can agree that Luka is considered a Top 5 NBA player today, however, he actually is terribly inefficient shooting the ball. The point being, why does Zion need to improve on this already when he's shooting 58% from the field? He's 20-years old. His shooting will develop over time. He can still be a Top 5 player in the league without a "jumper". Giannis won back-to-back MVP's without a jumper. Giannis doesn't need a jumper, he needs to learn to play in the post.

Why comment on a sport you clearly don’t watch or understand? You say it’s a serious question then you just go ahead and give uneducated reasoning behind your opinion

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by k13

I like lots of players.
Just have to be realistic.

I probably have 50+ Zion cards.
Maybe even more.

Most people here now are just pumpers.

Why do you have 50+ Zions for if you don't think he's any good? I seriously don't get it..you hate modern NBA, you've said it numerous times..you don't think Zion or Luka are anything special..why hoard Zion if you don't believe in him?