Is Kyle Schwarber a HOFer?

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by green4407

Yeah no one does. It makes no sense. Schwarbs hit 47 hrs and drove in and scored over 100 runs. He's very valuable to the Phillies.

I have no clue what that page is using. Austin's page has him at .8. The general stats leaderboard has him at .8.

The list you found appears to be trying to level everything, like a WAR/600 and whatever levels out pitching

[green4407]

Originally Posted by whitmm

I have no clue what that page is using. Austin's page has him at .8. The general stats leaderboard has him at .8.



The list you found appears to be trying to level everything, like a WAR/600 and whatever levels out pitching

OK so with rounding and using war correctly, they're basically the same right? So silly.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by green4407

OK so with rounding and using war correctly, they're basically the same right? So silly.

Hedges is at .8, Schwarber is at 1.4. They aren't the same.

Hedges adds his value from his defense, Schwarber from his offense, specifically his home runs. RBI are dependent on other players being on. Runs are dependent on other players hitting when he's on.

Schwarber not playing defense or playing a very poor left field lowers his value. But since you just want to focus on the offensive numbers, FG's offensive value has Schwarber with a large lead, 16.4 to -20.2. Point is WAR doesn't say that Hedges was more valuable

[green4407]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Hedges is at .8, Schwarber is at 1.4. They aren't the same.



Hedges adds his value from his defense, Schwarber from his offense, specifically his home runs. RBI are dependent on other players being on. Runs are dependent on other players hitting when he's on.



Schwarber not playing defense or playing a very poor left field lowers his value. But since you just want to focus on the offensive numbers, FG's offensive value has Schwarber with a large lead, 16.4 to -20.2. Point is WAR doesn't say that Hedges was more valuable

It does when I look at war leaderboards for the 2023 season. It says Hedges is better. The Rangers 3rd string catcher who hasn't played this postseason.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by green4407

It does when I look at war leaderboards for the 2023 season. It says Hedges is better. The Rangers 3rd string catcher who hasn't played this postseason.

And we've told you, that isn't his actual WAR. But you refuse to understand that. That is a normalized leaderboard. As in, if everyone played the exact same amount of innings. And yeah, at that point, I'd agree that Austin's defense was just as valuable as Schwarber's offense.

This is from the actual leaderboard on Fangraphs

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/ma...=12976%2C16478

WAR isn't a precise number and it's not meant to be used as a stand alone stat.

[green4407]

Originally Posted by whitmm

And we've told you, that isn't his actual WAR. But you refuse to understand that. That is a normalized leaderboard. As in, if everyone played the exact same amount of innings. And yeah, at that point, I'd agree that Austin's defense was just as valuable as Schwarber's offense.

This is from the actual leaderboard on Fangraphs

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/ma...=12976%2C16478

WAR isn't a precise number and it's not meant to be used as a stand alone stat.

It's not normalized, you're just making stuff up.

Agreeing that Austin Hedges and Kyle Schwarber provide the same value to a team is just ridiculous. Just watch the baseball games and you can see that, with your very own eyes.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by green4407

It's not normalized, you're just making stuff up.

Agreeing that Austin Hedges and Kyle Schwarber provide the same value to a team is just ridiculous. Just watch the baseball games and you can see that, with your very own eyes.

Yes it is. You are using combined leaderboards, not the actual leaderboard. Fangraphs has Austin Hedges at .8 WAR, not 1.5. I'm sorry that you don't understand that you keep using the incorrect stat. And there appears to be issues with it.

WAR is a cumulative stat, meaning the more you play the better chance you have to have a higher number. Austin Hedges gets all of his value from his defense. He's a very good defensive catcher. But you can't seem to look past the 1 hr compared to Schwarber.

The board you are using has Junior Candelairo at 6.4 WAR. He had 3.3 for the year. There appears to be an issue with traded players, as it shows he played for 3 teams, same as Hedges. It appears to be doubling up his Washington stats, as his 3.1 doubled plus his .2 with the Cubs equals 6.4

[green4407]

Of course I can't see Hedges value, he's been on the bench all postseason. I'm sure the Phillies wish they would've picked him up to lead off and they could've cut Schwarber.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by green4407

Of course I can't see Hedges value, he's been on the bench all postseason. I'm sure the Phillies wish they would've picked him up to lead off and they could've cut Schwarber.

Did you forget which account is your burner account? Second person tonight to think WAR has anything to do with setting a lineup.

FYI, your leaderboard you keep referencing is incorrect.

No WAR has Hedges with a higher number than Schwarber. And neither are hall of famers.

[green4407]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Did you forget which account is your burner account? Second person tonight to think WAR has anything to do with setting a lineup.



FYI, your leaderboard you keep referencing is incorrect.



No WAR has Hedges with a higher number than Schwarber. And neither are hall of famers.

Tell your war overlords about their errors.

All everyone needs to know is you think Austin Hedges is a more valuable baseball player to have on your team than Schwarbs.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by green4407

Tell your war overlords about their errors.

All everyone needs to know is you think Austin Hedges is a more valuable baseball player to have on your team than Schwarbs.

If Hedges had the same number of innings, yeah, I'd believe that his defense and lack of offense was similar to Schwarber's offense and terrible defense. But they didn't have the same number of innings, therefore Schwarber was better. And you don't need WAR to see that.

Hedges had .8 fWAR, Schwarber had 1.4. You are the only one here saying that Hedges had a higher WAR. You've built this entire narrative on incorrect information. You are the one who has no clue what WAR attempts to do. And you are the one who continues to use it wrong.

Kyle Schwarber is not a hall of famer, cry more. And in case you forgot, you are the one that brought up WAR. You made a statement that was quickly proven wrong, but you insisted on saying it was right, and then you went on a tangent accusing me of treating WAR like a god stat.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by green4407

It's not normalized, you're just making stuff up.

Agreeing that Austin Hedges and Kyle Schwarber provide the same value to a team is just ridiculous. Just watch the baseball games and you can see that, with your very own eyes.

whitmm is right. rWAR for Hedges is -1.1 and Schwarber is 0.7. There is no measurement that is suggesting Hedges was better than Schwarber. fWAR has them essentially the same.

In the end, playing Schwarber in the field nearly negates any offensive value he has. Forget Hedges, essentially, Schwarber was near replacement level this season.

If Schwarber had played DH exclusively this season, his rWAR would have been around 2.0. His defense was that bad.

[Kingmob00]

Hall of Fame goofball

[Stifle]

He doesn’t meet todays current analytical criteria - WAR. WAR is a accumulation of stats in non situational opportunities “no such thing as clutch, post season is too short to analyze”.

Schwarber is everything WAR is not, he bats in the lead off position. WAR gives value to accumulating : Stolen Bases, Taking Extra Bases, Walks, Hits, Doubles, Triples, Fielding, etc. Kyle is so far away from what Ronald Acuna receives in WAR that he will be analyzed for not creating more opportunities. That is what WAR is, accumulating opportunities. Schwarber thrives on hitting home runs at the top of the lineup where he can put his team in the lead.

WAR is taking away the value of having a Reggie Jackson like player. That is the closest comparison to Schwarber I can make. His numbers are triangular in a circle analytics. He doesn’t fit todays standards of value. Is he valuable, extremely.

Has Schwarber done everything Reggie did, no, but he is still performing.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Stifle

He doesn’t meet todays current analytical criteria - WAR. WAR is a accumulation of stats in non situational opportunities “no such thing as clutch, post season is too short to analyze”.

Schwarber is everything WAR is not, he bats in the lead off position. WAR gives value to accumulating : Stolen Bases, Taking Extra Bases, Walks, Hits, Doubles, Triples, Fielding, etc. Kyle is so far away from what Ronald Acuna receives in WAR that he will be analyzed for not creating more opportunities. That is what WAR is, accumulating opportunities. Schwarber thrives on hitting home runs at the top of the lineup where he can put his team in the lead.

WAR is taking away the value of having a Reggie Jackson like player. That is the closest comparison to Schwarber I can make. His numbers are triangular in a circle analytics. He doesn’t fit todays standards of value. Is he valuable, extremely.

Has Schwarber done everything Reggie did, no, but he is still performing.

He doesn't meet the old criteria either. He's a career .227 hitter and only has 246 hr.

Sent from my SM-A546U1 using Tapatalk

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by JRX

He doesn't meet the old criteria either. He's a career .227 hitter and only has 246 hr.

Sent from my SM-A546U1 using Tapatalk

Regular season Reggie .262 BA over 560 HR’s with a MVP, 4xHR, 1xRBI, 5xStrike Out, only 2x over 30 2B, could steal but wasn’t great 2 to 1 in attempts.

Post Season Reggie Jackson where he claimed his fame - 2xMVP World Series, Post Season - .278, 18 HR’s, 41 runs, 48 RBI’s. His WPA is 1.19.

At the age of 34 and 36 as a DH, Reggie came in 2nd and 6th in the AL MVP race.

Could Schwarber possibly come up with a like resume, I doubt it but his Post Season numbers could elevate especially if he continues helping Phily win. Kyle’s post season resume is .246, 40 runs, 33 RBI’s and 20 HR’s with a 1.25 WPA.

[itsbaytime]

I can not believe we are even discussing the HOF for a guy who hit .197 this year. That is absolutely nuts.

[brewtown107]

You are all wrong. Schwarbs is definitely a Hall of Famer. Maybe not 1st ballot. But he is the career leader in SchwarbWAR with 14.9. No other player in the history of any sport has a positive SchwarbWAR number.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

I can not believe we are even discussing the HOF for a guy who hit .197 this year. That is absolutely nuts.

Surprisingly for a player who strikes out so much, 126 Walks. Not sure how many HBP’s or ROE’s “players who don’t put the ball into play usually don’t reach on error often”. He did well this season. The season isn’t over and what is his Post Season BA ?

[itsbaytime]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Surprisingly for a player who strikes out so much, 126 Walks. Not sure how many HBP’s or ROE’s “players who don’t put the ball into play usually don’t reach on error often”. He did well this season. The season isn’t over and what is his Post Season BA ?

Are you Joe Buck??

[itsbaytime]

I know these are whatever, but they have to have some merit:

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Batting - 4 (537th), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink
Batting - 31 (980th), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 35 (621st), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 16 (1142nd), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Left Field (202nd):
11.9 career WAR | 11.9 7yr-peak WAR | 11.9 JAWS | 2.0 WAR/162
Average HOF LF (out of 21):
65.1 career WAR | 41.6 7yr-peak WAR | 53.4 JAWS | 4.8 WAR/162
Similarity Scores
Explanation of Similarity Scores
Similar Batters
Khris Davis (926.9)
Rob Deer (922.3)
Russell Branyan (911.9)
Joc Pederson (906.0)
Adam Duvall (904.8)
Cody Bellinger (892.6)
Max Muncy (890.2)
Matt Olson (881.1)
Hunter Renfroe (874.8)
Josh Willingham (874.1)
Similar Batters through 30
Dave Kingman (927.7)
Mark Reynolds (910.8)
Mark McGwire (910.0)
Chris Davis (902.5)
Greg Vaughn (897.6)
Jay Buhner (888.5)
Eric Davis (888.5)
Joc Pederson (888.4)
Bob Allison (885.8)
Nick Swisher (882.0)
Most Similar by Ages
Jack Suwinski (958.7) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
Melvin Nieves (966.5) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
Miguel Sanó (956.2) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
Joc Pederson (963.4) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
Miguel Sanó (966.1) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
Dave Kingman (948.6) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
Dave Kingman (927.7) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

If the MLB HOF was run like the NBA’s HOF, he would be a locked-in first ballot player.

[itsbaytime]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

If the MLB HOF was run like the NBA’s HOF, he would be a locked-in first ballot player.

Except Robert Horry isn't a hall of famer.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

Except Robert Horry isn't a hall of famer.

He isn’t?! Big Shot Rob isn’t in the NBA HOF? I didn’t know that. That’s genuinely surprising.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

Are you Joe Buck??

LOL, not even close. I analyze value in terms of producing in meaningful opportunities rather than accumulating creating opportunities as WAR does.

Horry isn’t in the Hall but Reggie is.