Kevin Garnett topps rookie card boom

[gmunay]

Originally Posted by Tallboy

I think I'm one of the few who still subscribes to Beckett and all disclaimers about the "book" no longer capturing what's going on in the market, but I'll say it's really jarring seeing what's happening with both the Garnett & Shaq Topps rookies.

I can argue KG's Topps over UD aesthetically, but when the Topps is worth $120 and the UD is worth $6...wow.

Meanwhile, the very idea that that amongst Shaq RC's during Topps' return year to basketball that Topps would be worth $100 while the Stadium Club was worth $10 almost feels like a slap in the face to someone who remembers the impact that Stadium Club had across all sports at the time.

Agree 100%. For anyone that collected during that time period, the shift in pricing and perceived popularity is unfathomable among some of these cards.

For KG, UD and Topps weren't all that different but I would still argue that UD was still considered slightly more desirable. What's worse though is how a base Topps PSA 9 is now selling for more than a Finest PSA 9.

You are so right that the Stadium Club Shaq was all the rage and definitely the most sought after base RC until sentiment later shifted to the UD #1 - most likely due to it being SP and having the difficult to gem black background and borders. Base Topps was at the same level as Hoops, Skybox and Fleer.

Kobe is another one. Base Topps PSA 8 sells for around the same as a Finest PSA 9 now.

I never would have imagined any of these scenarios as they defy all logic from that time period.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by gmunay

Agree 100%. For anyone that collected during that time period, the shift in pricing and perceived popularity is unfathomable among some of these cards.

For KG, UD and Topps weren't all that different but I would still argue that UD was still considered slightly more desirable. What's worse though is how a base Topps PSA 9 is now selling for more than a Finest PSA 9.

You are so right that the Stadium Club Shaq was all the rage and definitely the most sought after base RC until sentiment later shifted to the UD #1 - most likely due to it being SP and having the difficult to gem black background and borders. Base Topps was at the same level as Hoops, Skybox and Fleer.

Kobe is another one. Base Topps PSA 8 sells for around the same as a Finest PSA 9 now.

I never would have imagined any of these scenarios as they defy all logic from that time period.

Well of course, that's what we're dealing with: The "logic" of the modern hobby is different now than it was then.

I think it's important not to say that the now-logic is wrong simply because it's different, on the other hand, will KG's Topps actually stay 20 times more than his UD?...

[starfox]

Originally Posted by jfan2024

KG great as he is, does not belong in the same sentence as MJ/Kobe/LeBron

Only because he wasted all those years being loyal to Minnesota. And people blame LeBron for leaving Cleveland the first time. Had not LeBron left, he'd be Garnett. Players, in all sports, wised up before fans and collectors did.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[rainmaker]

Topps was the lowest desired card brand back early to mid 90s. This is an interesting turn of events. Something to be said for flagship simplicity and stability I suppose.

[SearchPatrol]

Always liked the Skybox E-XL, but that to me is more art than card. Would never have thought you could trade 1 Topps for (5) E-XL but you can now.

[15ncounting]

Originally Posted by SearchPatrol

Always liked the Skybox E-XL, but that to me is more art than card. Would never have thought you could trade 1 Topps for (5) E-XL but you can now.

This card is actually picking up steam in PSA 10. Centering was bad on these, pop is pretty low as well..

[gmunay]

Originally Posted by Tallboy

Well of course, that's what we're dealing with: The "logic" of the modern hobby is different now than it was then.

I think it's important not to say that the now-logic is wrong simply because it's different, on the other hand, will KG's Topps actually stay 20 times more than his UD?...

I would think that if the base Topps prices hold, other options such as the UD should all rise. I personally like the UD better than the Topps as well

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Topps was the lowest desired card brand back early to mid 90s. This is an interesting turn of events. Something to be said for flagship simplicity and stability I suppose.

Agreed that it’s definitely been a strange and surprising turn around for 90s Topps values. It’s as if history is being rewritten.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by gmunay

Agreed that it’s definitely been a strange and surprising turn around for 90s Topps values. It’s as if history is being rewritten.

Its as simple as Topps paper being a cheaper alternative to Topps Chrome. Same picture for The first few years.

That and this whole “flagship” nonsense that no one in basketball had ever utililized before. Thats a baseball investorboi term.

[gmunay]

Originally Posted by mc1

Its as simple as Topps paper being a cheaper alternative to Topps Chrome. Same picture for The first few years.

That and this whole “flagship” nonsense that no one in basketball had ever utililized before. Thats a baseball investorboi term.

I see that for '96 and up, but not for '92-95.

Let's take 1995 for example. As mentioned earlier, the base Topps Garnett is selling for more than the Finest in PSA 9. Yet the base Topps Jordan is selling for way less than the Finest Jordan and the base '96 Topps Jordan. Does that show the base KG is overvalued or is the base Jordan undervalued? I sure don't know anymore

[Totalpackage]

Since 95 Topps have raised this much, I think 95 SP should raise too.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Topps was the lowest desired card brand back early to mid 90s. This is an interesting turn of events. Something to be said for flagship simplicity and stability I suppose.

Indeed. There's a lot to explore there, but when settles on the old-time industry leader, there's absolutely a conservative streak going on looking to protect oneself.

There's been some asking of whether history will repeat itself with Optic surpassing Prizm the way the analogous Chrome surpassed Finest. I'd say it absolutely can happen, just as it happened before, but it won't necessarily happen this time, just as it could have easily not happened before. Collectors - at least the ones who were on the Chrome wave - could be said to have retreated away from the more experimental super-premium that seemed to be a sea of noise.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by mc1

Its as simple as Topps paper being a cheaper alternative to Topps Chrome. Same picture for The first few years.

That and this whole “flagship” nonsense that no one in basketball had ever utililized before. Thats a baseball investorboi term.

You're skipping the part where people decided in the first place that they'd rather have a shiny version of a boring Topps design instead of Finest or any of the other considerably more fancy cards that were on the market in the '90s.

Topps Chrome became a thing because of Topps. People wanted the "standard premium". The thing along the lines of the Topps Tiffany set that could be presented as both a) essential and b) scarce.

We're seeing something analogous with use of grading. Cards with some latent iconic meaning held back by being too plentiful get that PSA 10 and all of a sudden they are more desirable than other more scarce, but less established brand.

It thus shouldn't be seen as a coincidence that Topps has done particularly well in the grading market. I'm not saying I would have called the strange land we're in now by any means, but we're seeing again and again a desire in the collecting community for fancy-Topps, and the reality is that Topps Chrome is just one facet of it.

One last note: It's striking to me that you blame baseball for the Topps trend. I'd say you're not wrong to do so, but do you also realize that basketball is responsible for spreading Chrome love to baseball? Baseball collectors back then got the Topps Chrome set first and collectively yawned, and there was some bafflement at what the hell the basketball folks were thinking. That trend informed this trend, and we're essentially seeing horizontal gene transfer between the specific sport cultures.

I think it's a pretty fascinating human phenomenon.

[patientgambler]

Originally Posted by Totalpackage

Since 95 Topps have raised this much, I think 95 SP should raise too.

I'm with you and a lot of other posters who are having trouble understanding which Garnett RC's took off. I guess people are looking for the continuity of Topps, but I thought his SP RC was one of his go to rookies. That's the main card I remember from the 90's of Garnett. His Finest being another.

[Totalpackage]

Originally Posted by patientgambler

I'm with you and a lot of other posters who are having trouble understanding which Garnett RC's took off. I guess people are looking for the continuity of Topps, but I thought his SP RC was one of his go to rookies. That's the main card I remember from the 90's of Garnett. His Finest being another.

95 SP has a very good image of Kevin Garnett in his rookie year Timberwolves uniform which is great for rookie card.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Tallboy

You're skipping the part where people decided in the first place that they'd rather have a shiny version of a boring Topps design instead of Finest or any of the other considerably more fancy cards that were on the market in the '90s.

Topps Chrome became a thing because of Topps. People wanted the "standard premium". The thing along the lines of the Topps Tiffany set that could be presented as both a) essential and b) scarce.

We're seeing something analogous with use of grading. Cards with some latent iconic meaning held back by being too plentiful get that PSA 10 and all of a sudden they are more desirable than other more scarce, but less established brand.

I now believe a lack of refractors for 95-96 Rookies and the tiered “base” set Format started in 96-97 led to its eventual downfall vs Chrome. Maybe the Finest designs were just too gaudy and collectors preferred simplicity.

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by mc1

I now believe a lack of refractors for 95-96 Rookies and the tiered “base” set Format started in 96-97 led to its eventual downfall vs Chrome. Maybe the Finest designs were just too gaudy and collectors preferred simplicity.

Greening of the Finest rookies can't be ignored.

I really liked the Gallery set. Sure seems like I am the only one. Can nab nearly 20 of those for every centered Topps paper.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by mc1

I now believe a lack of refractors for 95-96 Rookies and the tiered “base” set Format started in 96-97 led to its eventual downfall vs Chrome. Maybe the Finest designs were just too gaudy and collectors preferred simplicity.

I see things similarly, stuff I see:

1. Poorly thought out tiering. You make us buy the most expensive pack of cards, and then all my cards are this ugly brown color?

2. Meaningless designs. The entire basketball run is guilty of this. The original "Baseball's Finest" set captured the retro/futuristic combo perfectly, but they never brought that to basketball with that brand. They brought it with Topps Chrome.

3. Finest had been at the top for a while and I think had a sense of vulnerability in general. With SkyBox in particular creating superior designs, if it hadn't been Chrome, it probably would have been something else.

4. But I think there was a huge gravity towards Topps as the most established company in hobby, and so I think it was easier for the hobby to get behind another Topps product, just as I think Finest had an inside track to dominate the hobby because Topps Stadium Club held the throne first.

5. I will say, I do think the single biggest thing going for Topps Chrome in '97 when it caught fire was the perception of scarcity. But I also think that it's well established that a particular set can be rare and still not make the program the set belongs to an in-demand set going forward. I think the combination of nostalgia and futurism the way they all wrapped together in a nice salty sweet really helped.

[Tallboy]

Originally Posted by Willikn

Greening of the Finest rookies can't be ignored.

I really liked the Gallery set. Sure seems like I am the only one. Can nab nearly 20 of those for every centered Topps paper.

I think the greening of Finest would be a much bigger deal to this point if its usurper Topps Chrome didn't also have the issue.

I do however thing that those who believe that Topps Chrome can't fall just because it hasn't yet aren't learning the lesson of Topps' rocketing flagship base. All it would take is people believing other people really are bothered by the greening, and once the prices started falling, everyone would jump in.

I do think the rise of the Topps base will likely protect Chrome from falling too much in such a scenario, I think it's clear that knowing the hobby pre-pandemic is not the same as knowing how things will play out now.