NLDS: Nationals vs Dodgers - Page 7

jstasyk1121 · 10-11-2016, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

There's no debate as to what the right call is here; and Roberts didn't make it. You may not want to lose a four game series w/ Kershaw on the bench, but by pitching him today, the Dodgers lowered their chances of winning the series in five games. That's the point, so kudos to LAD for possibly extending this one more game, rather than doing the smart thing, and try to extend it for one more series.

(But Kershaw has come out yet again proving it really doesn't matter when you pitch him).

what a complete shock!!! NeedChapmans says something is 100% fact when its clearly an objective thing...im sure NO ONE saw that coming as your reply...geez..."there's no debate"...who the F are you guy? are you a HOF manager or GM of a MLB team? oh you arent? you are just a guy that spends a sh!tload of money on baseball cards?? well obviously your OPINION is basically fact and everyone should just agree with you....

Homerun · 10-11-2016, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

what a complete shock!!! NeedChapmans says something is 100% fact when its clearly an objective thing...im sure NO ONE saw that coming as your reply...geez..."there's no debate"...who the F are you guy? are you a HOF manager or GM of a MLB team? oh you arent? you are just a guy that spends a sh!tload of money on baseball cards?? well obviously your OPINION is basically fact and everyone should just agree with you....

Very well said.

WalterAZ31 · 10-11-2016, 05:30 PM

lol Ross........what a waste

WalterAZ31 · 10-11-2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

what a complete shock!!! NeedChapmans says something is 100% fact when its clearly an objective thing...im sure NO ONE saw that coming as your reply...geez..."there's no debate"...who the F are you guy? are you a HOF manager or GM of a MLB team? oh you arent? you are just a guy that spends a sh!tload of money on baseball cards?? well obviously your OPINION is basically fact and everyone should just agree with you....

careful, he might have you suspended

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 05:31 PM

Hits, get hit, whatever works.
Kershaw's also had a terrific rest since he came around the bases for the lead, and he's up to the 5 hitter.

NeedChapmans · 10-11-2016, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

what a complete shock!!! NeedChapmans says something is 100% fact when its clearly an objective thing...im sure NO ONE saw that coming as your reply...geez..."there's no debate"...who the F are you guy? are you a HOF manager or GM of a MLB team? oh you arent? you are just a guy that spends a sh!tload of money on baseball cards?? well obviously your OPINION is basically fact and everyone should just agree with you....

There's no debate, implying mathematical probability suggests the decision is wrong. Simple arithmetic, Dodgers decreased their chances from winning this series by pitching Kershaw today. That's all I mean when I say there can be no debate.

And the game today shows exactly why. Urias on the mound w/ Joe Ross pitching meant the Dodgers were more likely to score runs today. Using Kershaw for a game you had a better chance to score runs was illogical, saving him for the game you'd have more trouble scoring runs makes sense (common and mathematical).

VeedonFleece · 10-11-2016, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

to me its a no brainer to use Kershaw today....

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

There's no debate as to what the right call is here

Seems like you're both saying it's a 100% no brainer, to me, even if you're arguing on opposite sides.

Fwiw, I'd probably have saved Kershaw too, but it's essentially a coin-flip!

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 05:40 PM

As for the debates over what should and shouldn't be done, just think of all the wasted expert words in the Red Sox and Rangers season threads alone, which will now wither away. It's over for them, and no one knows exactly why it happened or could have done something different to make that thing not happen. It's over, but there's always next year. It's baseball.
The first pair of can't misses went out in three, Dodgers and Giants could both be out today in 4. Or they'll win today and lose on the road in 5. Or win today and win on the road and meet for the Pennant. No one knows why, or how, not exactly anyway.
Try writing poems instead. I'd like to read them.

Kershaw lookin' good in the shade...

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 05:50 PM

If the Dodgers could've picked up another run or two that frame, it would've been a good idea to pull Kershaw on his first hit or walk surrendered in the top of the 5th. Get him back on rest. As it is, I think he still might try to go a full 6, but the top of the order is coming up quick now. I'd say he can give up 2 hits (or walks) before he's pulled.

Big35Hurt · 10-11-2016, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

There's no debate, implying mathematical probability suggests the decision is wrong. Simple arithmetic, Dodgers decreased their chances from winning this series by pitching Kershaw today. That's all I mean when I say there can be no debate.

And the game today shows exactly why. Urias on the mound w/ Joe Ross pitching meant the Dodgers were more likely to score runs today. Using Kershaw for a game you had a better chance to score runs was illogical, saving him for the game you'd have more trouble scoring runs makes sense (common and mathematical).

That's all fine and dandy during the regular season, but when it's an elimination game you need to do all you can to survive. What if LA went with Urias today and lost? Having Kershaw ready to go for game 5 wouldn't matter a whole lot. I haven't read the rest of the discussion leading up to this, but to me that's common sense.

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 05:55 PM

Clean sheet for Clayton.
Assist to the shadows.

calculusdork · 10-11-2016, 05:57 PM

There's the Kershaw we all know and mostly love.

NeedChapmans · 10-11-2016, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

That's all fine and dandy during the regular season, but when it's an elimination game you need to do all you can to survive. What if LA went with Urias today and lost? Having Kershaw ready to go for game 5 wouldn't matter a whole lot. I haven't read the rest of the discussion leading up to this, but to me that's common sense.

If LA went with Urias today and they lost, then they're gonna lose anyway because if the Dodgers give up 6 runs on Wednesday, they lose. This is not a question of pitching Kershaw instead of Urias, obviously anyone would do that. This is a question of when to pitch Urias because you absolutely have to.

The argument of using Kershaw in an elimination game is of no value because ... well ... Urias has to pitch in an elimination game. You're not sparing him this fate by using Kershaw today and there is no possibility of using Kershaw Thursday so you're not gaining anything by having Kershaw throw early. There are only three clearly defined differences by using Kershaw today

(1) He's pitching on short rest so he's likely capped around 100 pitches (6-7 innings)
(2) Your rookie pitcher will be starting on the road against Max Scherzer, instead of at home against Joe Ross
(3) Your ace starts at home against Joe Ross instead of on the road against Max Scherzer.

There is no doubt, the game today against WAS was made much easier by pitching Kershaw, and the Dodgers are very likely to win today as a result. However, they've now backed themselves into the corner by having to throw Urias on the road against Scherzer. The argument that you need to win game 4, and that it's dumb to have Kershaw on the bench and lose this game is not a valid argument! You MUST win game 5 as well, and you get nothing but brownie points for losing a 5 game series instead of a 4 game series.

The best chance the Dodgers had was pitching Urias today because if he falters, you still have a good chance facing a weak Joe Ross. Now, if Urias falters in Washington, the Dodgers lose that chance. Sure Scherzer could blow up, sure Kershaw could pitch poorly and need the extra runs today, but knowing you must win 2 games and trying to give yourself the best odds to win two games, you do not start Kershaw today. Dodgers very likely to win today, very likely to lose Thursday, vs. being slightly favored in both games.

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 06:10 PM

Every game is a brand new game, essentially independent of what happened in the game before. There's no player so good that on any given day, another player couldn't step up to have the same impact. The Dodgers should not have won their division missing Kershaw so long, but did so. They've got the same chance to win game 5 no matter who's pitching, based on their season so far.
But let's go back to this one...

NeedChapmans · 10-11-2016, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandns

Every game is a brand new game, essentially independent of what happened in the game before. There's no player so good that on any given day, another player couldn't step up to have the same impact. The Dodgers should not have won their division missing Kershaw so long, but did so. They've got the same chance to win game 5 no matter who's pitching, based on their season so far.
But let's go back to this one...

Then I say let's see Brandon McCarthy out there!

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 06:16 PM

Man, that Triumphant Giants commercial is probably pretty harsh on most Dodger fans' eyes and ears. Although I am a Dodger fan, and they are our natural rival, I've found I root for the Western-most team once the Dodgers get knocked out, so I was happy for the D'Backs, Angels, and Giants (ok, only the first time!) titles.

Former Dodger Jayson Werth making LA fans rue the day he broke his wrist try to make a great play in the Dodger outfield. That fine effort basically ended his Dodger career, and robbed us of a fine player. I'm also very happy for his success, despite him being on the other team.

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Then I say let's see Brandon McCarthy out there!

Urias is ready. Fernando did it at around the same age. Dodgers have good history here.

Garmin · 10-11-2016, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

That's all fine and dandy during the regular season, but when it's an elimination game you need to do all you can to survive. What if LA went with Urias today and lost? Having Kershaw ready to go for game 5 wouldn't matter a whole lot. I haven't read the rest of the discussion leading up to this, but to me that's common sense.

Exactly this.

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 06:20 PM

Wow, Kershaw got through 6 on only 89 pitches and if he's done, he's handing it over to his relievers to face the bottom of the order with a 3 run lead. That'll do, Clay. That'll do.

awz50 · 10-11-2016, 06:22 PM

10 K's through 6 WOW

USAFDODGERS · 10-11-2016, 06:24 PM

Can't complain after that first inning I figured we were in for another long battle to get through 5 Kersh did his thing, we can play Monday morning Qb if Dodgers lose on Thursday with Urias pitching and even myself said let the kid start at home vs Ross and let Kersh & Max face off in game 5 but you gotta get there first and anything can happen in a game 5

USAFDODGERS · 10-11-2016, 06:27 PM

I guess Rich hill is going to pitch on short rest game 5? If they hold on today

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 06:44 PM

Former MVP faceoff...

jdandns · 10-11-2016, 06:50 PM

Harper wins it in a walk.

Kershaw:
11k's
110 pitches on short rest, and he can only win or have nothing to do with it.
We'll see...

Bars and Bar · 10-11-2016, 06:50 PM

Good start by Kershaw.

5 minutes later when the reliever gives up a hit...

Not a good start by Kershaw.

10-11-2016, 05:31 PM	#155
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	Hits, get hit, whatever works. Kershaw's also had a terrific rest since he came around the bases for the lead, and he's up to the 5 hitter. __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 05:40 PM	#158
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	As for the debates over what should and shouldn't be done, just think of all the wasted expert words in the Red Sox and Rangers season threads alone, which will now wither away. It's over for them, and no one knows exactly why it happened or could have done something different to make that thing not happen. It's over, but there's always next year. It's baseball. The first pair of can't misses went out in three, Dodgers and Giants could both be out today in 4. Or they'll win today and lose on the road in 5. Or win today and win on the road and meet for the Pennant. No one knows why, or how, not exactly anyway. Try writing poems instead. I'd like to read them. Kershaw lookin' good in the shade... __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 05:50 PM	#159
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	If the Dodgers could've picked up another run or two that frame, it would've been a good idea to pull Kershaw on his first hit or walk surrendered in the top of the 5th. Get him back on rest. As it is, I think he still might try to go a full 6, but the top of the order is coming up quick now. I'd say he can give up 2 hits (or walks) before he's pulled. __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 05:55 PM	#161
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	Clean sheet for Clayton. Assist to the shadows. __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 06:10 PM	#164
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	Every game is a brand new game, essentially independent of what happened in the game before. There's no player so good that on any given day, another player couldn't step up to have the same impact. The Dodgers should not have won their division missing Kershaw so long, but did so. They've got the same chance to win game 5 no matter who's pitching, based on their season so far. But let's go back to this one... __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 05:30 PM	#153
WalterAZ31 Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 8,268	lol Ross........what a waste

10-11-2016, 05:57 PM	#162
calculusdork Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Nowheresville Posts: 26,683 calculusdork calculusdork	There's the Kershaw we all know and mostly love.

10-11-2016, 06:16 PM	#166
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	Man, that Triumphant Giants commercial is probably pretty harsh on most Dodger fans' eyes and ears. Although I am a Dodger fan, and they are our natural rival, I've found I root for the Western-most team once the Dodgers get knocked out, so I was happy for the D'Backs, Angels, and Giants (ok, only the first time!) titles. Former Dodger Jayson Werth making LA fans rue the day he broke his wrist try to make a great play in the Dodger outfield. That fine effort basically ended his Dodger career, and robbed us of a fine player. I'm also very happy for his success, despite him being on the other team. __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 06:20 PM	#169
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	Wow, Kershaw got through 6 on only 89 pitches and if he's done, he's handing it over to his relievers to face the bottom of the order with a 3 run lead. That'll do, Clay. That'll do. __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 06:22 PM	#170
awz50 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: New Hampshire>>>Arizona>>>>Florida Posts: 32,983 awz50	10 K's through 6 WOW __________________ Collecting Baseball Hof Autographs 248/351 Blowouts Official Red Sox face of the franchise Eduardo Rodriguez Super Collector

10-11-2016, 06:24 PM	#171
USAFDODGERS Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wichita Falls, TX sadly Posts: 1,031 cardiokid2012	Can't complain after that first inning I figured we were in for another long battle to get through 5 Kersh did his thing, we can play Monday morning Qb if Dodgers lose on Thursday with Urias pitching and even myself said let the kid start at home vs Ross and let Kersh & Max face off in game 5 but you gotta get there first and anything can happen in a game 5

10-11-2016, 06:27 PM	#172
USAFDODGERS Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wichita Falls, TX sadly Posts: 1,031 cardiokid2012	I guess Rich hill is going to pitch on short rest game 5? If they hold on today

10-11-2016, 06:44 PM	#173
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	Former MVP faceoff... __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 06:50 PM	#174
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,413	Harper wins it in a walk. Kershaw: 11k's 110 pitches on short rest, and he can only win or have nothing to do with it. We'll see... __________________ "Repent, Harlequin!", said the Ticktockman.

10-11-2016, 06:50 PM	#175
Bars and Bar Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 10,720	Good start by Kershaw. 5 minutes later when the reliever gives up a hit... Not a good start by Kershaw. __________________ Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.