Marvel Cards are going crazy.

[PurplesaurusRex]

Originally Posted by SoccerRCs

Man… marvel has just absolutely crash and burned. People being carried out on stretchers. Any guesses on where we go from here?

PMG's have crashed and burned? I must've missed the memo.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by newhobbygeek

Looking long-term at Marvel card values 10, 5, 3, 2, and 1 years ago isn't everything up? I'm not referring to Spider-man PMG's selling

The answer is yes….and it’s a resounding yes. So the term ‘market crash’ is perplexing . Almost everything is up considerably from a few years ago. Have PMGs went down, in some cases big time, from peak level? Yes. That doesn’t mean the market is in the tank though. There continue to be strong sales, particular ones I could personally point to.. I wonder if in sports the same thing can be said: prices are still way above pre-pandemic prices for almost everything (I honestly don’t know because I don’t follow sports cards much).

When Spidey Metal preorders sell out every drop basically the same day, for a high price of $500+….not sure it makes sense to say the market is in the tank. Recent 2017 FUSM box sold for $6k. This was what, a $1k-$1.5k box a couple years ago.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by newhobbygeek

Overall... I don't think Marvel has absolutely crashed and burned. It might help to apply time based filters to this statement. Also, you can apply sub-categories to Marvel cards or brand/types/character filters.

If anyone wants to add more specifics to, "marvel has just absolutely crash and burned" and change it to "Spider-man card XYZ hit record sales of $XX,XXX in 2021 and now is selling for fraction." I can see how people think things crash and burned. I would be inclined to agree with them short-term on certain cards.

Looking long-term at Marvel card values 10, 5, 3, 2, and 1 years ago isn't everything up? I'm not referring to Spider-man PMG's selling for 80-100K+ a year ago and now for much less. I'm saying look back when a card set actually released. I look at Marvel Black Diamond cards released just couple years ago and not seeing crashing prices.

I'm still buying Marvel MCU cards for various sets and collections but not seeing crashing prices. I wish things would crash so I could afford to fill some collection holes. However, most collectors seem to be holding onto cards or listing them for high prices. A $1000 got me a lot of Marvel cards in 2018, but today not as much. Trading is one tool I've been trying to leverage more to help neutralize price increases.

Ignore value though. Do you think 'marvel card hobby' or 'number of marvel card collectors' is up or down? Apply long-term and short-term filter to those?

I cannot completely answer because I didn't observe the hobby ten years ago. I started collecting Star Wars/Marvel(MCU) cards around Summer 2018... this is around when Infinity War card set was released. Short-term from when I joined ePack and here, it looks to me more people collect Marvel MCU cards since then, but I cannot speak for 10 years ago. Interest in Marvel comic sets definitely seem to be up. Another way to ask my question: Has the number of individuals in the Marvel card collecting hobby grown or shrunk?

Where do we go from here... Eventually a ton of Marvel Comic and MCU sets will be released. I'm super excited for new sets with Marvel MCU Phase 4 content. I'm still concerned about not being able to afford breaking new sealed products. I'm not really interested in Marvel Spider-man metal. I am interested in Fleer Ultra Avengers, but I think price point of available pre-orders is to high for me. I'll wait to see where box prices end up once released hobby or epack.

Couple things I want to happen in hobby:

1. I'm probably in the minority, but I want Marvel card values to crash more. I would like to see value of the dollar/purchase-power increase. Singles and boxes prices keep increasing at levels higher than inflation.

2. Another option I would be happy with, I want Upper Deck to increase print runs and/or release Marvel Comic and MCU card sets at the same time. Somehow I want to see new sealed box prices come down. Supply needs to start matching demand.

Few things I don't want happen:

1. I don't want things in Marvel card hobby to crash so badly that Upper Deck doesn't make Marvel cards. This runs counter to open flood gate/print run and value drop comments above, so definitely a hard problem. However, I must say BOGO sales on epack were a blast few years ago!

2. I don't want to see collectors leave hobby because they get priced out new products.

3. I don't want to see watered down products. This could be result of increased print runs. I bought bunch Thor Dark World MCU hobby boxes prior to Marvel hobby taking off during COVID. Those had several hits in them. Usually got couple plexi-cards, couple movie relics, and maybe an actor or comic auto or sketch. However, look at Spider-man: Far From Home.. SMFFH you basically got a auto, sketch or one single plexi-diecut card... meh. Upper Deck Infinity war was great set too. IW had ton chase inserts available. It will be interesting in future to see how UD handles this and balances quality v. quantity v. increased license/production costs.

I think the number of MCU collectors is down since prior to the pandemic. The MCU peaked during Infinity War and Endgame. Autograph cards from Infinity War seemed to sell very well -- people were buying them as a collectable and not as an investment.

The pandemic triggered nostalgia-driven demand for trading cards. Speculators and pumpers focused their efforts on high graded early 90s Marvel cards -- not so-much recent Upper Deck retro sets and MCU cards.

Prices of modern Marvel comic cards skyrocketed over the last half year due to Marvel trading cards in general suddenly being treated as an investment -- specifically PMGs. Speculators and pumpers entered the market and have promoted marvel cards as an investment.

The quality of Marvel cards have dramatically declined since Infinity War and Upper Deck Matt left the company. Collectors value quality, variety, creativity and visual appeal of cards -- speculators don't. Speculators target specific products and artificially pump their value up through hype, deceit and manipulation -- they promote the financial benefits of a product and not the qualititative merits.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

The answer is yes….and it’s a resounding yes. So the term ‘market crash’ is perplexing . Almost everything is up considerably from a few years ago. Have PMGs went down, in some cases big time, from peak level? Yes. That doesn’t mean the market is in the tank though. There continue to be strong sales, particular ones I could personally point to.. I wonder if in sports the same thing can be said: prices are still way above pre-pandemic prices for almost everything (I honestly don’t know because I don’t follow sports cards much).

When Spidey Metal preorders sell out every drop basically the same day, for a high price of $500+….not sure it makes sense to say the market is in the tank. Recent 2017 FUSM box sold for $6k. This was what, a $1k-$1.5k box a couple years ago.

That's why the time frame is important. I bought almost all my Marvel cards prior to the pandemic, so the market value of my collection has gone up. But if you bought during the last half year, you're significantly in the red.

Sports cards in general are down significantly from the peak -- prices started steadily going down in March 2021, if I recall correctly.

I bought sports cards during the pandemic, but fortunately I bought a player who is as popular as ever so my card values have held steady.

[finfangfan]

Funny stuff happening with this plate… probably one of the best in the set and finished strongly earlier in the month only to be relisted a week later. Will be interesting to see if bids come in much lower second time around or stay close.

[glorbgorb]

Ugg, a graded plate.

[One more set]

I just bought the 2015 marvel jambalaya Venom on goldin a couple days ago. I paid a lot of money for a card that doesn’t come around very often, but I really wanted it in my collection. Do I think I could have got it cheaper if I waited, maybe. There are still some deals out there for collectors, maybe not so much for investors.

[jdandns]

Pretty much everything I still have is worth way more than I paid for it, and I already got back all the money I ever spent on it, so I'm good.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Funny stuff happening with this plate… probably one of the best in the set and finished strongly earlier in the month only to be relisted a week later. Will be interesting to see if bids come in much lower second time around or stay close.

Possibly an issue with AG not passing it, since Probstein seems to have made the 2-bit mistake of listing the grade as "7" in the item specifics.....whereas the grade isnt a 7, it's just"Authentic". But the odd thing is the new listing continues to incorrectly list it as a 7 (you'd think if that was the reason they might bother to look over the listing and correct the issue).

Or possibly just a non-payer.

I agree with the above...completely not a fan of stuff like this being graded. I mean, when is there ever a question of the authenticity of a printing plate...yet someone sends it in to PSA just for the 'Authentic' designation. I'll never understand grading newer cards like this. The worst is graded sketches- talk about taking away focus from the card itself.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by One more set

I just bought the 2015 marvel jambalaya Venom on goldin a couple days ago. I paid a lot of money for a card that doesn’t come around very often, but I really wanted it in my collection. Do I think I could have got it cheaper if I waited, maybe. There are still some deals out there for collectors, maybe not so much for investors.

Not to disparage you, but it is a PSA 8. A PSA 8 should basically be the standard raw condition for that card. You essentially paid a premium for a slabbed card.

According to PSA, the total population of 2015 Jambalaya Marvel graded cards is 109. 12 are gem mint 10 -- one that I own, btw. 82 are 9's. Only 11 are graded 8, with only 4 lower in grade.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Possibly an issue with AG not passing it, since Probstein seems to have made the 2-bit mistake of listing the grade as "7" in the item specifics.....whereas the grade isnt a 7, it's just"Authentic". But the odd thing is the new listing continues to incorrectly list it as a 7 (you'd think if that was the reason they might bother to look over the listing and correct the issue).

Or possibly just a non-payer.

I agree with the above...completely not a fan of stuff like this being graded. I mean, when is there ever a question of the authenticity of a printing plate...yet someone sends it in to PSA just for the 'Authentic' designation. I'll never understand grading newer cards like this. The worst is graded sketches- talk about taking away focus from the card itself.

The most likely answer is non-payer -- Probstein has a lot of that.

I believe the reason why it's slabbed is because it's being treated like a security asset. Cards that are slabbed and authenticated are more easily bought and sold like stocks on an exchange.

Remember -- Marvel cards are being treated like investments now.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

The most likely answer is non-payer -- Probstein has a lot of that.

I believe the reason why it's slabbed is because it's being treated like a security asset. Cards that are slabbed and authenticated are more easily bought and sold like stocks on an exchange.

Remember -- Marvel cards are being treated like investments now.

Yea probably nonpayer. (possibly shilled? dont know how probstein works with that)
The new listing might be a waste of an auction since I imagine AG could reject it because the incorrect grade designation.

And yea Im sure there could be investment/financial reasons (this is typically the reason to have newer cards graded, it's about the $$$)....but I cant understand it...it would be out of place in a card collection imo, and distracts from the card itself. The new influx crowd into Marvel, as you see on youtube Marvel content videos etc, seems completely centered around grading, probably mostly coming from sports- I just cant relate to it. I have two graded Marvel cards in my collection, and it's only because they are doubles (I have the raws, which I prefer, in sets) and Im trying to sell them, so just leaving them graded instead of cracking. I pretty much crack out graded cards I buy, which isnt often, so all graded does for me is make me pay a premium price for something that doesnt even mean anything to me.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Yea probably nonpayer. (possibly shilled? dont know how probstein works with that)
The new listing might be a waste of an auction since I imagine AG could reject it because the incorrect grade designation.

And yea Im sure there could be investment/financial reasons (this is typically the reason to have newer cards graded, it's about the $$$)....but I cant understand it...it would be out of place in a card collection imo, and distracts from the card itself. The new influx crowd into Marvel, as you see on youtube Marvel content videos etc, seems completely centered around grading, probably mostly coming from sports- I just cant relate to it. I have two graded Marvel cards in my collection, and it's only because they are doubles (I have the raws, which I prefer, in sets) and Im trying to sell them, so just leaving them graded instead of cracking. I pretty much crack out graded cards I buy, which isnt often, so all graded does for me is make me pay a premium price for something that doesnt even mean anything to me.

The preferences of collectors are definitely not being considered with these types of sales. I think the default assumption is that if you're paying multiple thousands of dollars for a card, it's not to complete a collection -- it's an investment.

On a side note -- I've never seen the value of printing plates for card with unoriginal artwork. I have maybe 20 Marvel printing plates, but only a couple are of reprinted artwork. A printing plate of original artwork is a true 1/1 -- reprinted artwork is kind of not.

I do understand wanting to complete a rainbow, though. So, getting every plate makes sense in that scenario.

[alphaomegas]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

Funny stuff happening with this plate… probably one of the best in the set and finished strongly earlier in the month only to be relisted a week later. Will be interesting to see if bids come in much lower second time around or stay close.

Shill bidding at its finest. Most marvel cards been pump and dump.

Pro tip cardboard is a greater fool theory u buy something cheap and pump it on YouTube or golden AH to get a sucker or tummy’s to want it and bam money made. So many retards out there.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by alphaomegas

Shill bidding at its finest. Most marvel cards been pump and dump.

Pro tip cardboard is a greater fool theory u buy something cheap and pump it on YouTube or golden AH to get a sucker or tummy’s to want it and bam money made. So many retards out there.

Again, this is a way over-simplified generalization that just isn’t true for many who collected/bought/sold Marvel over the years. There continue to be sales in Marvel way above prices a few years ago. If anything, minus perhaps the PMGs, a lot of stuff has settled.

Take that spider-man plate itself above. Yes, for whatever reason that was relisted….after ‘selling’ for over $4k. But if you think people out there wouldn’t pay well north of $1k….probably actually $2k-$3k+, then I would think that’s wrong. This is likely a few thousand $ card. Which is way more than it used to be worth a few years ago closer to release. Order of magnitude more.

[ForceChange77]

Good ole Prob will likely cancel auctions that dont meet his undeclared reserves. He sold and resold and resold a Mark Hamill about 5 years ago. Does it all the time

[ForceChange77]

Anybody in the know, knows that one group was buying the hell out of PMGs and pumping them. They bought almost every PMG in the market. Pretty sure they have stopped and the decrease we are seeing is stuff settling down. Wont go back down all the way since that group has gobbled up an enormous amount but we will see.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Again, this is a way over-simplified generalization that just isn’t true for many who collected/bought/sold Marvel over the years. There continue to be sales in Marvel way above prices a few years ago. If anything, minus perhaps the PMGs, a lot of stuff has settled.

Take that spider-man plate itself above. Yes, for whatever reason that was relisted….after ‘selling’ for over $4k. But if you think people out there wouldn’t pay well north of $1k….probably actually $2k-$3k+, then I would think that’s wrong. This is likely a few thousand $ card. Which is way more than it used to be worth a few years ago closer to release. Order of magnitude more.

I could see a Spiderman card collector paying good money for this plate. But generally speaking, you didn't see Marvel comic cards being sold for over $1k prior to the pandemic. A 2016 MM red spectrum of a main character could have reached that height. The 2013 Spiderman Jambalaya might have gotten there.

[44gwilson]

Originally Posted by ForceChange77

Anybody in the know, knows that one group was buying the hell out of PMGs and pumping them. They bought almost every PMG in the market. Pretty sure they have stopped and the decrease we are seeing is stuff settling down. Wont go back down all the way since that group has gobbled up an enormous amount but we will see.

What's the group? Where is this kind of stuff being discussed for 'people in the know' if not here?

[44gwilson]

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in as well re the rest of this discussion: Marvel cards have gone up in value. That's a fact. They won't return to pre pandemic prices, nor will any other assets/investments. That's inflation. The constant discussion over Marvel/non sports being seen as an investment when apparently it shouldn't be (just because it makes your set building more expensive). That's a delusion.

Covid and the lockdowns happened and people en masse had far too much time on their hands. Lots of these people found cards during this period and rediscovered the joy that we all feel from being a part of this hobby. As a result, cards saw record demand across the globe making pretty much everything go up in price. Yes, now it's levelled off as people go back to life but the demand will return and the collectors will always want to collect when they have the money to spare. Marvel is the biggest IP in the world at the moment. Marvel cards are bound to have a large collector base. I wish people could abandon this ridiculous notion that any prices set for a particular Marvel card is 'unsustainable' or 'inauthentic' or hyped just because they can't afford it. Get over it. This is the free market. Be happy you own cards at all.

[finfangfan]

Originally Posted by 44gwilson

Covid and the lockdowns happened and people en masse had far too much time on their hands.

You are ignoring the “free money” the Fed threw out during early COVID that gave a ton of people “fun money” to spend. That money is no longer flowing into the hobby which is another reason you are seeing less activity in the secondary market. The “free money” is no longer part of the equation.

[glorbgorb]

Not all collectors are in the US. But your point still stands.

[Peachcardsatl]

Originally Posted by finfangfan

You are ignoring the “free money” the Fed threw out during early COVID that gave a ton of people “fun money” to spend. That money is no longer flowing into the hobby which is another reason you are seeing less activity in the secondary market. The “free money” is no longer part of the equation.

With this Fed, they will over-tighten and then guess what— quantitative easing comes back and we go through the same cycle again (although that may still be a year away)

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I could see a Spiderman card collector paying good money for this plate. But generally speaking, you didn't see Marvel comic cards being sold for over $1k prior to the pandemic. A 2016 MM red spectrum of a main character could have reached that height. The 2013 Spiderman Jambalaya might have gotten there.

No, you didnt, outside the crazy gold 1/1 pmgs (even some of those used to be <$1k, around $500), and 1/1 red spectrums. That's the main point Im trying to make- prices are high compared to years past...it's just a difference landscape. It's not uncommon for a top Battle Spectra gem, PMG, main jambalaya, or even high end sketch (NAR, Ash Gonzales, etc) to go higher than 1k (and this is after the 'fall'). Here is an eye-opener: a few years ago, maybe like 2018ish....you could buy a 2016 MM complete tier 4 base 9 card set for maybe about $1800. I both bought and sold this set for around that price a few years ago. Now...the Spiderman tier 4 alone probably goes for like 1k or more. The set...who knows, maybe $5k or more (after the 'fall'), they dont come up often at all.

Originally Posted by 44gwilson

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in as well re the rest of this discussion: Marvel cards have gone up in value. That's a fact. They won't return to pre pandemic prices, nor will any other assets/investments. That's inflation. The constant discussion over Marvel/non sports being seen as an investment when apparently it shouldn't be (just because it makes your set building more expensive). That's a delusion.

Covid and the lockdowns happened and people en masse had far too much time on their hands. Lots of these people found cards during this period and rediscovered the joy that we all feel from being a part of this hobby. As a result, cards saw record demand across the globe making pretty much everything go up in price. Yes, now it's levelled off as people go back to life but the demand will return and the collectors will always want to collect when they have the money to spare. Marvel is the biggest IP in the world at the moment. Marvel cards are bound to have a large collector base. I wish people could abandon this ridiculous notion that any prices set for a particular Marvel card is 'unsustainable' or 'inauthentic' or hyped just because they can't afford it. Get over it. This is the free market. Be happy you own cards at all.

Good points here. Marvel being one of the top IP's in the world is especially worth noting. These are probably the top, unless Im missing some, in terms of pop culture properties:
-Marvel
-Star Wars
-Disney
-Harry Potter

These brands are huge, and to take one example all of these have even theme parks or parts of theme parks entirely devoted to them, and are probably what you are most likely to see on TV as a marathon over some holiday weekend. Simpsons, DC, Jurassic Park, James Bond, Indiana Jones are honorable mentions, but for various reasons not at that tier, and also besides Bond, are not major brands in trading cards (surprisingly for DC, it just never took off in cards like Marvel did). Disney (like classic disney, animated films etc), also isnt a main presence in trading cards. Harry Potter is a monster brand, but one thing hurting it is the small window of Artbox releases centered around the films for that stretch of time. Although those artbox sets are amazing and have a cult following (and do see high prices, particularly recently), there arent sets coming out each year.

This leaves Star Wars and Marvel, probably the biggest nonsport card collecting communities. Cards from either can go for serious value- lots of interest in the brands, established markets etc. I argue Marvel has the richer history with the ground breaking Impel/Fleer/Skybox run of the 90s, when every kid seemed to be collecting Marvel cards in that era, whereas in that era for Star Wars it was basically just an under-the-radar series of Galaxy sets (Star Wars CCG gaming cards were much more collected than nonsports Star Wars). Marvel brands such as Marvel Masterpieces, Fleer Ultra, and Metal have continued until the present day, thanks to the UD Fleer rights, so more of a continuity there. This is all a perfect storm: top tier brand in Marvel, UD happening to have the classic Fleer brands, the continuity, the snazzy art type cards (to people who prefer that)...Im not surprised to see the market remain strong.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by 44gwilson

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in as well re the rest of this discussion: Marvel cards have gone up in value. That's a fact. They won't return to pre pandemic prices, nor will any other assets/investments. That's inflation. The constant discussion over Marvel/non sports being seen as an investment when apparently it shouldn't be (just because it makes your set building more expensive). That's a delusion.

Covid and the lockdowns happened and people en masse had far too much time on their hands. Lots of these people found cards during this period and rediscovered the joy that we all feel from being a part of this hobby. As a result, cards saw record demand across the globe making pretty much everything go up in price. Yes, now it's levelled off as people go back to life but the demand will return and the collectors will always want to collect when they have the money to spare. Marvel is the biggest IP in the world at the moment. Marvel cards are bound to have a large collector base. I wish people could abandon this ridiculous notion that any prices set for a particular Marvel card is 'unsustainable' or 'inauthentic' or hyped just because they can't afford it. Get over it. This is the free market. Be happy you own cards at all.

Yes, there was nostalgia-driven demand for marvel cards during the covid lockdowns. But a lot of the increase in marvel card prices was due to speculators with disposable cash buying up inventory to resell at much higher prices.

I'm sure there are Marvel card collectors with cash to burn, but the prices that Marvel cards are at now makes it automatically an investment or speculative product -- it's just too high of a price now to only be a collectable.

I believe Marvel as a brand is on the downswing. The MCU, aside from Sony's Spiderman, peaked during Infinity War and Endgame. Marvel comics peaked in popularity the early 90s during the comic book speculative bubble. Marvel cartoons peaked in the early-to-mid 90s, led by the X-Men Animated series. Marvel cards peaked in popularity during the early 90s as well. The MCU shows are on the decline in ratings as well.