✹The PERENNIAL Shohei Ohtani Thread✹

[Giancarlo27]

Horrible news. He’s the most talented player in the history of baseball and it’s a loss for everyone that he is hurt. I love watching him play more than anyone else.

However, “investors” are dealing with some serious delusion right now it seems. Prices absolutely will go down. He turns 30 next season, and only has 34 career WAR. Unless he develops a Koufax-like legend down the road, there’s no way his current prices can sustain.

We are looking at three scenarios:

A) he never pitches again (destroys his card value, as despite being an amazing hitter he won’t hit 500 HRs or set any major records)

B) he transitions to a closer (keeps the two way legend alive, but makes it more difficult to accumulate the necessary WAR to be remembered as an all time great)

C) He gets another TJ in an effort to stay a starter (misses much if not all of his Age 29 season, and his effectiveness as a starter will be a massive question mark. And shelf life of TJ2 means another tear will likely occur again)

[OneSickDegen]

I love internet fights where people keep talking past each other.

[OneSickDegen]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Jesus

Me waiting on a new video

[NCWolf]

Originally Posted by Giancarlo27

Horrible news. He’s the most talented player in the history of baseball and it’s a loss for everyone that he is hurt. I love watching him play more than anyone else.

However, “investors” are dealing with some serious delusion right now it seems. Prices absolutely will go down. He turns 30 next season, and only has 34 career WAR. Unless he develops a Koufax-like legend down the road, there’s no way his current prices can sustain.

We are looking at three scenarios:

A) he never pitches again (destroys his card value, as despite being an amazing hitter he won’t hit 500 HRs or set any major records)

B) he transitions to a closer (keeps the two way legend alive, but makes it more difficult to accumulate the necessary WAR to be remembered as an all time great)

C) He gets another TJ in an effort to stay a starter (misses much if not all of his Age 29 season, and his effectiveness as a starter will be a massive question mark. And shelf life of TJ2 means another tear will likely occur again)

You keep referencing WAR as if it's the end all, be all. It doesn't apply to Ohtani like it does everyone else.

Ohtani doesn't need a massive WAR do be remembered as one of the greatest baseball players of all time. Longevity is an important factor in 99% of the greats - but it's not for Shohei.

HOF'er Eddie Mathews has almost 100 Career WAR over 17 seasons - and a lot of baseball fans have no clue who he is. Because he's just another in a long line of elite baseball players that had a great glove and great bat.

Even if he never pitched another inning Shohei Ohtani will *always* be in bar conversations as the greatest baseball player of all time.

It's like playing golf with your friends and pulling off an unbelievably miraculous shot underneath a tree branch that rolls up onto the green. When your playing partner says "I bet you can't do that again.." you reply:

"I don't have to, I already did." - or in Shohei's case, did it three times.

[Giancarlo27]

Originally Posted by NCWolf

You keep referencing WAR as if it's the end all, be all. It doesn't apply to Ohtani like it does everyone else.

Ohtani doesn't need a massive WAR do be remembered as one of the greatest baseball players of all time. Longevity is an important factor in 99% of the greats - but it's not for Shohei.

HOF'er Eddie Mathews has almost 100 Career WAR over 17 seasons - and a lot of baseball fans have no clue who he is. Because he's just another in a long line of elite baseball players that had a great glove and great bat.

Even if he never pitched another inning Shohei Ohtani will *always* be in bar conversations as the greatest baseball player of all time.

It's like playing golf with your friends and pulling off an unbelievably miraculous shot underneath a tree branch that rolls up onto the green. When your playing partner says "I bet you can't do that again.." you reply:

"I don't have to, I already did." - or in Shohei's case, did it three times.

I just don’t think 3 seasons of 2 way play is enough. Even with Koufax, who may be the best example of a guy regarded as one of the greatest of all time despite having a brief period of greatness, played at an all-time level for 5 years. 3 years feels like just a bit too short of a time to call him an all time great, where it’s more “what-if” than anything else.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by OneSickDegen

[IMG][/IMG]
Me waiting on a new video

Haha! Maybe I should do one on the Shohei market today 👀

[Asian62150]

Sad news for sports fans. Bad timing for Ohtani with the contract coming up. Hope he's able to recover quickly.

What's more likely to happen...

1 - A team offers Ohtani with the condition he only hits.

2 - Ohtani tells a team he'll sign with them with the condition they continue to let him play both ways

[seanrs1]

Sad news for Ohtani and my RC collection. But it will be ok. He will pitch and hit again. Just another bump in the road. Good news is I can resume my buying again!

There are many media people that have said Ohtani will get their HOF vote if he plays 10 years and is eligible no matter what his final counting statistics may be. The fact is when healthy he is a top 5 hitter and pitcher and all star at both positions. That has never been done before. He will win the MVP again this year.

I have said multiple times that I am a long term Ohtani collector investor. Silver lining is if I decide to grade my cards in the future with PSA there will be less of a chance with any up charges.

[NCWolf]

Originally Posted by Giancarlo27

I just don’t think 3 seasons of 2 way play is enough. Even with Koufax, who may be the best example of a guy regarded as one of the greatest of all time despite having a brief period of greatness, played at an all-time level for 5 years. 3 years feels like just a bit too short of a time to call him an all time great, where it’s more “what-if” than anything else.

He's 29 years old. And very likely is going to pitch again in 2025. I just don't see the doom and gloom everyone else does unless you're only viewing this from a WAR/longevity type standpoint. He has the three greatest seasons in baseball history under his belt.

I mean good grief the man would have 3 straight MVPs if Aaron Judge played for the Pirates. But more will come in the future!

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by NCWolf

He's 29 years old. And very likely is going to pitch again in 2025. I just don't see the doom and gloom everyone else does unless you're only viewing this from a WAR/longevity type standpoint. He has the three greatest seasons in baseball history under his belt.

I mean good grief the man would have 3 straight MVPs if Aaron Judge played for the Pirates. But more will come in the future!

[OneSickDegen]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Haha! Maybe I should do one on the Shohei market today 👀

People get butthurt and big mad over that so YES

[hammertime]

Terrible news. May spell the end of Ohtani as a SP (and maybe not) but if he transitions to a closer or position player it won't be the end of the world. With his talent and work ethic, he will be back. He was within striking distance of the Triple Crown this year, one hit away from the cycle multiple times, etc. He will be fine. Still, today...

[Rage]

Sucks as a fan but good buying opportunity, if we even get that much of a dip.

Still buying, grading, selling, and holding Ohtani cards.
It's not like he died.

Hope for a smooth recovery for Shohei��

[shaqobe]

I found some info regarding TJ surgery for a second time:

“On average, the typical TJ revision isn’t as successful as the typical primary TJ,” Dr. Andrew Cosgarea, an orthopedic surgeon and professor at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, said Tuesday. “

… The first time you drill a hole in the bone it is fresh and clean, but if it happens again you already have a hole there and that hole is filled with scar tissue.

… Scar tissue isn’t as healthy as original tissue. It doesn’t have the same blood supply; (it is) not as durable.”

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by shaqobe

I found some info regarding TJ surgery for a second time:



“On average, the typical TJ revision isn’t as successful as the typical primary TJ,” Dr. Andrew Cosgarea, an orthopedic surgeon and professor at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, said Tuesday. “



… The first time you drill a hole in the bone it is fresh and clean, but if it happens again you already have a hole there and that hole is filled with scar tissue.



… Scar tissue isn’t as healthy as original tissue. It doesn’t have the same blood supply; (it is) not as durable.”

Odds go from 80-90% to 60-65% range if I recall. We just won't know until we know.

[SupermanBrandon]

Remember when people were screaming from the roof tops that the Angels should trade Ohtani. Of course you cant predict an injury, but you also have to know how to play the odds and how to read signs. He isnt resigning. He never was. You weren't making the playoffs either way. He's going to walk because your ego wouldn't allow you to get something in return. And now he's injured and the Angels look like complete morons.

[BoSoxFan1999]

I wonder (assuming Ohtani can still DH) if getting shut down from pitching may actually allow him to hit even better? Not having to prepare/train pitching every 5-6 days and not having games where he has to hit and pitch in the same game, and instead being able to focus 100% on hitting. Hard to imagine he could hit any better than he has been, but not having to pitch anymore can't hurt anything.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

I wonder (assuming Ohtani can still DH) if getting shut down from pitching may actually allow him to hit even better? Not having to prepare/train pitching every 5-6 days and not having games where he has to hit and pitch in the same game, and instead being able to focus 100% on hitting. Hard to imagine he could hit any better than he has been, but not having to pitch anymore can't hurt anything.

That's the upside, right?

A complete hitting career plus what really was a 3 year run as an elite pitcher is enough to cement his legacy as a great.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

I wonder (assuming Ohtani can still DH) if getting shut down from pitching may actually allow him to hit even better?

No. His two worst years offensively, by far, were the two seasons he didn't pitch(2019 and 2020)

Not having to prepare/train pitching every 5-6 days and not having games where he has to hit and pitch in the same game, and instead being able to focus 100% on hitting. Hard to imagine he could hit any better than he has been, but not having to pitch anymore can't hurt anything.

Not true. There's also hard evidence of an offensive penalty, not large but not small, I think it's on the order of 10-12 wRC+, where hitters perform worse when they aren't in the field

[SoccerRCs]

Originally Posted by NCWolf

You keep referencing WAR as if it's the end all, be all. It doesn't apply to Ohtani like it does everyone else.

Ohtani doesn't need a massive WAR do be remembered as one of the greatest baseball players of all time. Longevity is an important factor in 99% of the greats - but it's not for Shohei.

HOF'er Eddie Mathews has almost 100 Career WAR over 17 seasons - and a lot of baseball fans have no clue who he is. Because he's just another in a long line of elite baseball players that had a great glove and great bat.

Even if he never pitched another inning Shohei Ohtani will *always* be in bar conversations as the greatest baseball player of all time.

It's like playing golf with your friends and pulling off an unbelievably miraculous shot underneath a tree branch that rolls up onto the green. When your playing partner says "I bet you can't do that again.." you reply:

"I don't have to, I already did." - or in Shohei's case, did it three times.

The cope on this thread by Ohtani investors is absolutely wild. He was already waaay overpriced for someone entering his age 29-30 season (which may be shot from a pitching perspective, or even from a batting perspective). He has had basically three good seasons plus rookie of the year. His WAR is low. He has hit over 100 RBIs ONCE. People calling him an all time legend (much less the GOAT) are laughable. Sure if he comes back fine from this TJ surgery and does what he did this year for 6-7 more years, we can discuss it but if he's never the same again, N-O. No hall of fame either. Ken Griffey had more than double the amount of HRs at the same age as Ohtani. Yeah he didn't pitch but the man had 8 CONSECUTIVE gold gloves at this point. If Ohtani is never the same, he was absolutely a flash in the pan. A Grant Hill. A Derrick Rose of baseball.

It is so obvious who plowed money in at the top in these threads. Just pure delusion.

You can hold all you want but you just wait. If this man gets Tommy John surgery and sits all of 2024, we are talking 20 months until he plays again. Nobody is going to be giving a single thought to Shohei Ohtani this time next year. And I GUARANTEE you his card prices will reflect that reality.

[Rage]

Originally Posted by SoccerRCs

The cope on this thread by Ohtani investors is absolutely wild. He was already waaay overpriced for someone entering his age 29-30 season (which may be shot from a pitching perspective, or even from a batting perspective). He has had basically three good seasons plus rookie of the year. His WAR is low. He has hit over 100 RBIs ONCE. People calling him an all time legend are laughable. Sure if he comes back fine from this TJ surgery and does what he did this year for 6-7 more years, we can discuss it but if he's never the same again, N-O. No hall of fame either. Ken Griffey had more than double the amount of HRs at the same age as Ohtani. Yeah he didn't pitch but the man had 8 CONSECUTIVE gold gloves at this point. If Ohtani is never the same, he was absolutely a flash in the pan. A Grant Hill. A Derrick Rose of baseball.

It is so obvious who plowed money in at the top in these threads. Just pure delusion.

This is good stuff

Got any more? I appreciate the jokes

[SoccerRCs]

Originally Posted by Rage

This is good stuff

Got any more? I appreciate the jokes

I see you got some heavy bags there. Seems we are going with the hope strategy eh?

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by SoccerRCs

The cope on this thread by Ohtani investors is absolutely wild. He was already waaay overpriced for someone entering his age 29-30 season (which may be shot from a pitching perspective, or even from a batting perspective). He has had basically three good seasons plus rookie of the year. His WAR is low. He has hit over 100 RBIs ONCE. People calling him an all time legend (much less the GOAT) are laughable. Sure if he comes back fine from this TJ surgery and does what he did this year for 6-7 more years, we can discuss it but if he's never the same again, N-O. No hall of fame either. Ken Griffey had more than double the amount of HRs at the same age as Ohtani. Yeah he didn't pitch but the man had 8 CONSECUTIVE gold gloves at this point. If Ohtani is never the same, he was absolutely a flash in the pan. A Grant Hill. A Derrick Rose of baseball.

It is so obvious who plowed money in at the top in these threads. Just pure delusion.

You can hold all you want but you just wait. If this man gets Tommy John surgery and sits all of 2024, we are talking 20 months until he plays again. Nobody is going to be giving a single thought to Shohei Ohtani this time next year. And I GUARANTEE you his card prices will reflect that reality.

Hello Mr "SoccerRCs". Welcome to the sport of baseball! It's a bit different than soccer so you're misunderstanding of Ohtani is understandable. You're very, very off and excluding the things that makes Ohtani GOAT. Stay a while and learn!

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by SoccerRCs

I see you got some heavy bags there. Seems we are going with the hope strategy eh?

I don't know why you decided to come into this thread and call us all morons for buying his cards. If it makes you feel better I guess?

[imbluestreak23]

The tards burying a dude on pace for 56HR, 20SB, and an OPS > 1000 is wild. So those numbers alone this year are basically a peak Mike Trout, the guy who carried MLB and the hobby for the last decade...

Heard a commentator this morning asking, "can he even hit after surgery? Like his arm is going to be in a cast." Bruh, 2019 wasn't that long ago, WTF lol.

We are sorry all other players not named Ohtani went down the past 2-3 years, I suppose there's plenty of built up frustration for missing the boat that exists for many in the hobby. If I can score another BC Orange RC Auto for $6K, I will be happy.