What’s it going to take to revitalize the NBA card hobby?

[msink28]

It pains me to say this because I think Fanatics is its own brand of awful, but most of the problems in the basketball card market stem from Panini.

Here are four for me:
1) lack of odds and numerous print runs from Panini, which is intentional because nobody wants to learn that the odds of getting a /25 from a blaster are 1:120 packs or something like that. eventually nobody has any bandwidth to figure out which cool-looking parallel is rare and which one is garbage so it's just all garbage. to this point, there are some major print run differences between prizm unnumbered parallels and select unnumbered parallels. nobody really cares all that much.
2) wax prices, holy smokes it's so bad, still no odds. EV is artificially inflated because of a few monster cards, if you took them out you'd be looking at <20% of MSRP for most products. i like to open packs and am fine to waste a little $$$ here and there but holy smokes, like this is actual money people are spending that could go somewhere else.
3) rookies are dying. couple competing reasons. oversaturation from OTE, college crap limits upside of a lot of guys. but then NBA stuff comes out too hot because of MSRP. there's no reason terrence shannon autos should be selling for more than $15. but yet here we are. i do see this particular environment getting better as some of the idiot money is leaving the hobby. have been able to get in on some guys this year and last year for prices that i thought were ok.
4) quality control and thoughts about quality control, it's the literal worst. watched a break of NOIR and none of the cards were better than PSA 8, why, it's because they put cards that will easily chip in an unsecured little box. break was also atrocious, first 9 cards had nothing above $40 in sale value.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by msink28

watched a break of NOIR and none of the cards were better than PSA 8, why, it's because they put cards that will easily chip in an unsecured little box. break was also atrocious, first 9 cards had nothing above $40 in sale value.

It doesn't helps that instead of cutting the box, most breakers seem to ding the edges multiple time popping the cards out.

[MikeyLikesIt]

Competition. Monopolies suck.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

The rookie classes from the last few years certainly have not helped cards either.

Wemby was red hot last year and that has obviously cooled off.


This year's class is not helping the situation. Years ago, I would have been all over prizm on the retail level. This year? Nope.

I wouldn't blame the 23-24 rookie class, but rather, the unique situation involving Wemby (only having autos in unlicensed Topps products).

Even with Panini's level of overproduction and Wemby's injury issues, if licensed Wemby autos were available in their 23-24 products, such cards (and wax) would still be hot.

The 24-25 rookie class is certainly weaker though.

[Torro]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Tatum has ZERO chance. Outside of the Northeast, people hate Boston. Even if he wasn’t the most cringe player in the NBA, he couldn’t overcome that. He’ll always been a disliked 1a/1b.

Luka doesn’t dunk. He’s got no chance either.

Like there are any other good option out there. I would be very interested to know who you have in mind if Luka and Tatum have no chance.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Torro

I also agree, its definitely not a bad thing for collectors. You can just ignore the stuff you dont like, and just pick out what you like, you dont need to collect everything, but at least you have more options to pick out and collect what you like.

100 different parallels is better than 100x more print run for the base cards(like there was in 90s), I dont see how it can be a bad thing from the collecting perspective

Because the few truly unique cards get drown out by all the garbage. At least it was clear during the junk wax era which cards were the ones to chase because there weren't a million different parallels.

We all know why there are so many parallels nowadays -- it's an easy way to inflate the number of hits in a product so gamblers feel like they pulled a special card and get the endorphin hit they desire. It has nothing to do with collectors and giving them more collecting options.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I predict Luka will win his first title after Bron leaves LA.

Well, he's going to need to be paired with at least one other star player to do so -- who is that going to be?

LeBron brings so much experience. When he leaves, Luka is going to need to fill that leadership role -- will he be ready?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by Torro

Like there are any other good option out there. I would be very interested to know who you have in mind if Luka and Tatum have no chance.

There aren’t. That’s the point.

There doesn’t have to be a singular superstar who carries the league and hobby. It may be a pool of guys, which isn’t very helpful for the hobby.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

There aren’t. That’s the point.

There doesn’t have to be a singular superstar who carries the league and hobby. It may be a pool of guys, which isn’t very helpful for the hobby.

You know what's sad? Take away LeBron and Curry from the NBA, and MLB might have bigger star power with Ohtani and Judge -- yikes.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

You know what's sad? Take away LeBron and Curry from the NBA, and MLB has bigger star power with Ohtani -- yikes.

Fixed it for you.

[Nomad]

I guess you need players who are from the right countries internationally, with US star power as well.

Wemby, Ohtani, Luka.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

The way the NBA is covered is way different than it used to be. Before it used to be like a competitive, cut throat competitive league and now led by ESPN, you got a talk show during games with the games being secondary. Then you got women behind the mics. The game loses its grittiness.

NHL has gone the same way. Woman was doing color commentary and it just didn't sound right. Felt like I was watching a college game.

That's not even half of it. The on court product with everybody chucking 3's is an abomination.

[Nomad]

I love Pacers basketball. Always fast-paced and gritty, coming back from deficits. Gotta watch the right team I guess.

[mjekase]

There are good and bad commentators/announcers, male and female. Plenty of "gritty" dudes who absolutely suck at it. Neither is the reason the league's in a weird place.

[fabiani12333]

Who is currently the third most famous NBA player after LeBron and Curry.

You've got a basket of star players who seem to all have a similar level of fame -- Tatum, Luka, Giannis, Kyrie, AD, Wemby, etc.

One name that comes to mind is Draymond Green. He's obviously not the level of player that other star players are, but he's just as famous/infamous -- kind of like Dennis Rodman back in the day.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Who is currently the third most famous NBA player after LeBron and Curry.

You've got a basket of star players who seem to all have a similar level of fame -- Tatum, Luka, Giannis, Kyrie, AD, Wemby, etc.

One name that comes to mind is Draymond Green. He's obviously not the level of player that other star players are, but he's just as famous/infamous -- kind of like Dennis Rodman back in the day.

Regardless of his lack of post-GSW success, I'd still like to think that KD is the 3rd "most famous" active NBA player after LeBron and Curry (if you randomly polled people, both fans and non-fans).

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Regardless of his lack of post-GSW success, I'd still like to think that KD is the 3rd "most famous" active NBA player after LeBron and Curry (if you randomly polled people, both fans and non-fans).

Agreed on KD.

After that, Kyrie had a movie and he got a lot of press around the "flat earth" thing.

After that, Luka's gotta be the most famous in the under 30 crowd right now

[slyguy]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Regardless of his lack of post-GSW success, I'd still like to think that KD is the 3rd "most famous" active NBA player after LeBron and Curry (if you randomly polled people, both fans and non-fans).

Not a chance... Ant Man and Luka are much more known. Luka going to LAL cemented that (although he was already #2 or #3 before the trade). They get covered on SportsCenter a whole lot more.

Joker also got a bit of pub, but he's not as exciting or marketable.

KD is the new Tim Duncan (good but far from exciting). Tatum is probably next in command for that good-but-Zzzzzz spot also.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by slyguy

Not a chance... Ant Man and Luka are much more known. Luka going to LAL cemented that (although he was already #2 or #3 before the trade). They get covered on SportsCenter a whole lot more.

Joker also got a bit of pub, but he's not as exciting or marketable.

KD is the new Tim Duncan (good but far from exciting). Tatum is probably next in command for that good-but-Zzzzzz spot also.

Are you referring to who's being talked about more right now, or who has more general notoriety?

KD's got a decade+ of fame on those guys.

[slyguy]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Are you referring to who's being talked about more right now, or who has more general notoriety?

KD's got a decade+ of fame on those guys.

Yes, LeBron and Curry and Luka and Anthony Edwards in terms of currently famous... who's in the headlines, on TV, on the web. That is largely decided on Espn and X, etc... that's who kids and casual sports fans and general people will know of. KD's barely covered anymore.

I think KD's ship has definitely sailed. All-time great type player and career, but he won't even be in playoffs this year, swept out last year. He played Olympics last year... but pretty sharp drop in production there also. The fans, casual and serious, have moved on to newer and shinier things.

Heck, I'd say Jimmy Butler's more in the headlines than KD, and that's sad but true.
(basically the same reason Travis Kelce is much more famous and known than Tony G or Drew Brees or Matt Ryan... it's all about eyeballs)

[volblorx8634]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

The way the NBA is covered is way different than it used to be. Before it used to be like a competitive, cut throat competitive league and now led by ESPN, you got a talk show during games with the games being secondary. Then you got women behind the mics. The game loses its grittiness.

NHL has gone the same way. Woman was doing color commentary and it just didn't sound right. Felt like I was watching a college game.

That's not even half of it. The on court product with everybody chucking 3's is an abomination.

I watched a Thinking Basketball video today that compares a game from 1993 to 2009 to today, I think with the intention of debunking that the current on court product is an abomination. His point is essentially that 3s are the natural byproduct of how sophisticated offenses have gotten and the improved spacing. Worth the watch I think.

https://youtu.be/fp4but75EjY?si=ZriGX0MLLkFkyC5j


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Well, he's going to need to be paired with at least one other star player to do so -- who is that going to be?

LeBron brings so much experience. When he leaves, Luka is going to need to fill that leadership role -- will he be ready?

The great thing about Luka playing with the Lakers is two-fold. First, he can learn from LeBron about taking care of his body. LeBron is indeed great at that. I'd wager Luka didn't spend very much in the off-season doing so. We know Lebron spends millions per year. Hopefully he'll learn the importance of training and recovery. The second is the rich history and legacy of playing for the Lakers. I'm sure Magic, Kareem and the rest of the Lakers greats have spoken to him. That'll make a difference We all know how important Kobe Bryant was and hopefully the impact of the moments he had with him can inspire him to become a great leader.

[ninjacookies]

The issue is none of these guys has the alpha male genetic marker off the court. Most of these guys can barely belt out a complete sentence with conviction, let alone hold an intellectual conversation. I don't think a majority of them even care to.

Shotime can get away with it because he attracts multiple huge international markets and is chasing a unicorn's legacy being able to play 2 vital offensive positions. Doesn't get any more 1/1 than that.

Probably the guy with the greatest chance is Slemby, with his nerdism/culturalism thanks to his foreign upbringing. My only concern with him are health and a bit of potential long term viewership fatigue (a 7'5 guy SHOULD be dunking all over everyone...but substitute a 14 inch vertical for a 40 inch vertical and it's much different)

Kobe/MJ/Fossil/Steph...that DNA lineage is on the verge of dying off. (imagine any of them being coy incels. just lol) And that's how you become transcendent. These guys just ain't ambassadors of the game. They're tiktok 15 second soundbyte manchilds. Most of these guys will be known as great basketball players, but nothing outside of that.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Well, he's going to need to be paired with at least one other star player to do so -- who is that going to be?

LeBron brings so much experience. When he leaves, Luka is going to need to fill that leadership role -- will he be ready?

Luka needed to fill that leadership role as soon he got traded to the Lakers. Once Leartifact is gone, they’ll have plenty of cap space to sign another star to replace that antique.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by mjekase

There are good and bad commentators/announcers, male and female. Plenty of "gritty" dudes who absolutely suck at it. Neither is the reason the league's in a weird place.

It's part of the reason.

I look at it completely in a different way than you. I look at it from a casting point of view. I wouldn't hire a beautiful woman to play an evil queen and an average looking woman to play Snow White. Female voices sound way too innocent and pretty. The game loses some grittiness. Are there bad male announcers? Sure but that doesn't make having female announcers any more of a good idea.

I wouldn't replace Axel Rose with Whitney Houston so she can sing Paradise City. I wouldn't replace James Hetfield with Maria Carey so she can sing Enter Sandman. The songs would lose the gritiness and the vibe. That's not to say women can't sing. Obviously they can.

I immediately turn away from a broadcast that has a woman doing pbp or as a color analyst. I'm not supporting that.