Which one is more likely the next PMG?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by daeve

lol yes they do, look at Jokic prices. Only in the last 10-14 days have they seen a run-up to decent prices, before that he was still reigning 2x B2B MVP on the top team in the West and was selling for woefully cheap.

Look at Bonds' prices, still running up but still undervalued.

Look at vintage soccer/boxing. Lots of Pele+Maradona still well undervalued. Pre-2020 Tyson and Ali were super undervalued but have since been steadily climbing with some peaks/valleys along the way.

I'm not talking about individual players, whose card prices and demand can be affected by performance and scandal. I'm talking about card brands -- inserts, parallels, products etc.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I'm not talking about individual players, whose card prices and demand can be affected by performance and scandal. I'm talking about card brands -- inserts, parallels, products etc.

Individual players can boost up brands/products. Notice how a lack of MJ or Kobe in a 90s set makes it less appealing. I think Bonds' trend upwards is already helping some baseball sets, though it's still early.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by daeve

Individual players can boost up brands/products. Notice how a lack of MJ or Kobe in a 90s set makes it less appealing. I think Bonds' trend upwards is already helping some baseball sets, though it's still early.

That's definitely true. Certain specific inserts could get a boost by being associated with a player who later becomes one of the all-time greats.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

That's definitely true. Certain specific inserts could get a boost by being associated with a player who later becomes one of the all-time greats.

As far as parallels go, this theory would bode well for early Panini stuff from 2012-2015, when you would have playing day issues of LeBron, Kobe, Curry, Durant, and Giannis (sans 2012).

[h00perstar34]

Originally Posted by daeve

Individual players can boost up brands/products. Notice how a lack of MJ or Kobe in a 90s set makes it less appealing. I think Bonds' trend upwards is already helping some baseball sets, though it's still early.

Man, coming to mind are hoops prime twine /500. Not having MJ or Kobe in that set is blasphemy!

[BlueXtreme]

The answer is Kaboom Gold. They’re on fire right now for some reason

[Unwrapit]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

If you guys want to have an honest discussion on PMGs, they actually weren't highly sought after or valued in 1997, based on my understanding. It wasn't until a decade or so ago that they got pumped on the secondary market and started to become grail cards.

It's very unlikely that there is a modern-day PMG lurking in the marketplace. The reason being is that PMGs were undervalued when they were released. Metal Universe was considered a niche brand meant for comic book fans. The graphics were in fact produced by in-house Marvel artists, as Fleer was owned by Marvel at the time. PMGs were low-numbered cards with a distinct design featuring iconic players of that era, most importantly his airness himself, MJ.

No ultra modern card will be as undervalued as PMGs were. The flipper and investment forces in the hobby don't allow cards to be undervalued.

At the time of release PMG’s weren’t iconic or sought after primarily for the regular collector. PC collector’s of the individual players is a different story but still weren’t in the top of wants(needs) at the time. We were just spoiled with sooo many options in mid/late nineties that it was an after thought to grab any.
This set won’t relinquish its title anytime soon.


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[threefromthetee]

Originally Posted by BlueXtreme

The answer is Kaboom Gold. They’re on fire right now for some reason

I think these will eventually fall flat. Panini ran Kaboom into the ground, along with everything else that had some originality. Pumpers keep pumping Kaboom up. Happens all the time.

[jzx1103]

Here's another argument as to why no current sets is the next PMG. The main reason we're even talking about PMGs is due to these 100x in value since their release in 1997. Do anyone honestly see any of today's inserts even 10x or even 5x their current prices in the next 30 years. Their prices are already so outrageous out of the gate. I'm guessing the reason OP started this topic was to see what he can invest in that'll mirror PMGs success. Answer is none!!!

[dengbang]

The bottom line is no one knows if there will be a set/parallel/insert with a similar footprint as the PMG's. It will all depend on what the youth today deems nostalgic in 20 years. Maybe cardboard will go out of style and everything will revolve around digital collectables. Who knows? Change is inevitable.

[Zedlaw]

2012 Gold and Silver Prizms were the next PMGs. Now the question is what's the next prizm

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by jzx1103

Here's another argument as to why no current sets is the next PMG. The main reason we're even talking about PMGs is due to these 100x in value since their release in 1997. Do anyone honestly see any of today's inserts even 10x or even 5x their current prices in the next 30 years. Their prices are already so outrageous out of the gate. I'm guessing the reason OP started this topic was to see what he can invest in that'll mirror PMGs success. Answer is none!!!

Current prices? No.

But 2012 Gold Prizm are many many times the prices they were at when they first came out.

[Kobefan]

So if PMG is considered the best set of the 90s, then what's the best set of the 2000s? The answer isn't an insert, but rather the 2003-04 Exquisite base set (includes the rpa). Why is that? Cause once autograph and auto jersey/patch/logo cards became the norm, there is no longer any room for any non-auto card set to be considered as the apex set, and that sentiment will row over to the cards made in the 2010s and onward.

[h00perstar34]

Originally Posted by Unwrapit

At the time of release PMG’s weren’t iconic or sought after primarily for the regular collector. PC collector’s of the individual players is a different story but still weren’t in the top of wants(needs) at the time. We were just spoiled with sooo many options in mid/late nineties that it was an after thought to grab any.
This set won’t relinquish its title anytime soon.


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Considering I traded a kukoc green in for $50 in ex2001 packs, which was a fair trade back in 1998, no they were not even close to considered grail cards then


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[larryhughes]

Metal product is iconic for many early collector, affordable product which anyone can rip, with super rare insert inside. With current box price you can't find a product that anyone can rip, how do you find iconic set that everyone can enjoy?

[ninjacookies]

I think that's part of the allure of PMG's. Is that Metal was a relatively niche product when it first released, and didn't exactly receive a glowing reception from most clecters back in the late 90's.

As a toddler, I still remember my local comic shop being flooded with boxes of it in 98...with very little of it ever moving. I didn't give it a second look.


Best believe the counter was cluttered with ravaged packs of Finest and SPA, tho.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by larryhughes

Metal product is iconic for many early collector, affordable product which anyone can rip, with super rare insert inside. With current box price you can't find a product that anyone can rip, how do you find iconic set that everyone can enjoy?

I really don't believe this to be true.

Even 10 years after the release they were still really affordable on ebay. Greens of lower named guys were $100.

I remember Tim Duncan Green being sub $1k.

This set was pumped to infinity. And Kobe and Jordan prices drive the entire set. As they get pumped and record prices are shown, it drives the others in the set.

Scarcity plays a part now. Sure. But let's not act like this is what everyone remembers about clecting as a kid.

We all know it was 93 UD, Fleer and Skybox

[Lee42]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

I really don't believe this to be true.

Even 10 years after the release they were still really affordable on ebay. Greens of lower named guys were $100.

I remember Tim Duncan Green being sub $1k.

This set was pumped to infinity. And Kobe and Jordan prices drive the entire set. As they get pumped and record prices are shown, it drives the others in the set.

Scarcity plays a part now. Sure. But let's not act like this is what everyone remembers about clecting as a kid.

We all know it was 93 UD, Fleer and Skybox

I worked in a Card Shop during the mid to late 90's and while we saw a few of these cards around they weren't heavily sought after at the time as they are now.

Flair Showcase/Finest was always popular as were the Autographics cards which went across a number of releases and most things Bulls/MJ/Upper Deck etc and the new rookies over the years (Penny/Hill/AI/Kobe etc.) really drove most products.

Was a great time to be a collector with all of the innovation!

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Lee42

I worked in a Card Shop during the mid to late 90's and while we saw a few of these cards around they weren't heavily sought after at the time as they are now.

Flair Showcase/Finest was always popular as were the Autographics cards which went across a number of releases and most things Bulls/MJ/Upper Deck etc and the new rookies over the years (Penny/Hill/AI/Kobe etc.) really drove most products.

Was a great time to be a collector with all of the innovation!

It was definitely a great time to be a kid.

I was all about Fleer Ultra. And got a hold of some 95/96 Flair when I saved up good.

Penny and D. Rob were my main 2. And some MJ bass when I mowed enough lawns.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

I really don't believe this to be true.

Even 10 years after the release they were still really affordable on ebay. Greens of lower named guys were $100.

I remember Tim Duncan Green being sub $1k.

This set was pumped to infinity. And Kobe and Jordan prices drive the entire set. As they get pumped and record prices are shown, it drives the others in the set.

Scarcity plays a part now. Sure. But let's not act like this is what everyone remembers about clecting as a kid.

Well, Beckett had the Green PMG Jordan in the top 20?! Cards of all-time. I might need to find the 100th Beckett issue to see where they had it. So the pump started early!

[jzx1103]

I do remember the Jordan Green and Red PMGs to be on the beckett hot lists shortly after release. The Green was a $10k card right out of the gate. Modern cards reaching even $1k was unheard of back then

[BigSeph]

I don't know that there will be another PMG, but I think the Flawless diamond /20 rookie cards are going to have a big run one day.

People will look back and realize that they were the rarest true RCs for a lot of players and unlike the Gala /8s were in a consistently released product that's still going.

And like metal/PMG basketball, it will bleed over into other sports that had Flawless releases too.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

I don't know that there will be another PMG, but I think the Flawless diamond /20 rookie cards are going to have a big run one day.

People will look back and realize that they were the rarest true RCs for a lot of players and unlike the Gala /8s were in a consistently released product that's still going.

And like metal/PMG basketball, it will bleed over into other sports that had Flawless releases too.

The biggest issue I see with Flawless base rookies is that they aren't currently even the most popular release in the set. The RPAs are the cards of choice currently.

For a while I tried to make an argument that the Base Diamond Rookie of the most significant athlete to date to have one of these should be the card to have out of Flawless (it's even auto'd), but it was to no avail, so I too have just given in to the power of the Flawless RPA.

[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by tjforce

The biggest issue I see with Flawless base rookies is that they aren't currently even the most popular release in the set. The RPAs are the cards of choice currently.

For a while I tried to make an argument that the Base Diamond Rookie of the most significant athlete to date to have one of these should be the card to have out of Flawless (it's even auto'd), but it was to no avail, so I too have just given in to the power of the Flawless RPA.

The hobby is littered with examples of what might not be super popular out of the gate overtaking the "cool thing" over time.

Did anybody think that Shaq's most valuable rookie card would be Topps Gold instead of the Upper Deck trade card in 1993?

Did anybody think Kobe's Topps Chrome RC would skyrocket past his Topps Finest RC?

How many Prizm parallels are there now? 40? There's a lot to be said for a player's rarest base true RC, serial#d and all. It will appeal to a lot of people down the road.

[Spacemanspif]

I've sold off whatever base diamonds I have because they've gone up due to people looking for the next thing to pump, and there's no reason for me to keep them because they're simply not cool looking cards. People trying to create narratives around what a true RC is and what people will want down the road are overthinking it. After all the Prizm pumps, and rare insert pumps, and whatever else comes up, people will fight over stuff that looks cool. Go look up the Patches and Patch autos for your favorite players and notice the price discrepancies between the 4 color patches to /25 and 2 color swatches with no stitching to /10. Nobody cares what the numbering is on the card, they will pay more for the one that looks better.