Russel Wilson 2012 Topps Chrome RC Prices ^$^

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by Hawksmack

I keep seeing you chime comparing legends of the past. If you look at Wilsons numbers through 8 seasons and compare them to say someone like Elway. His trajectory is crazy. Way better numbers then Elway. But being a 49er fan I can’t imagine your watching every Seahawks play from every game like we are.

I don't think I do that, MFaulkCollector did. But if we're going to talk Greatness all time, we have to take in account the past. otherwise he's just good "right now". Wouldn't you agree?

And when we compare to the past in order to make an all-time assessment, we have to factor in the rule changes that have unquestioningly favored the passing game and this current crop of passers right now. Including Wilson. And even having said that, Jon Kitna sits above Wilson in passing yards RIGHT now.

Greatness also doesn't lie just in Stats. it is wins, it is being best when the lights shine brightest. I'm not sure Wilson is there yet. When the lights shined brightest, The Hawks D held an all time offense to 8 points and the next time, Wilson threw a pick at the goalline. It is a team game, but those are facts. This is not to say he couldn't re-write the narrative with a SB win, or an MVP but it's later that you think, to coin a phrase.

I don't watch every play but being a fellow NFC Wester I watch a lot of Hawks football (Rams, Cards, too). A lot. But the reason I say this is a young guy with the name RW3istheGoat writes this, and he DID write this:

Originally Posted by RW3isTHEGOAT

I think Russell Wilson is the 2nd best QB of all time next to Tom Brady himself.

I feel like even the most fanatical Hawk fan would call a time out and say, hey, whoa, He's been great. But maybe we slow our roll with that talk.

Is anything I've said untrue?

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Oliverinc

The boat has somewhat left, I’ve been buying a ton the last 3 weeks and every week his stuff continually increases.


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Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I don't think I do that, MFaulkCollector did. But if we're going to talk Greatness all time, we have to take in account the past. otherwise he's just good "right now". Wouldn't you agree?

And when we compare to the past in order to make an all-time assessment, we have to factor in the rule changes that have unquestioningly favored the passing game and this current crop of passers right now. Including Wilson. And even having said that, Jon Kitna sits above Wilson in passing yards RIGHT now.

Greatness also doesn't lie just in Stats. it is wins, it is being best when the lights shine brightest. I'm not sure Wilson is there yet. When the lights shined brightest, The Hawks D held an all time offense to 8 points and the next time, Wilson threw a pick at the goalline. It is a team game, but those are facts. This is not to say he couldn't re-write the narrative with a SB win, or an MVP but it's later that you think, to coin a phrase.

I don't watch every play but being a fellow NFC Wester I watch a lot of Hawks football (Rams, Cards, too). A lot. But the reason I say this is a young guy with the name RW3istheGoat writes this, and he DID write this:



I feel like even the most fanatical Hawk fan would call a time out and say, hey, whoa, He's been great. But maybe we slow our roll with that talk.

Is anything I've said untrue?

I don't think you have.... and it brings me back to the point I've been making for a while now, that in the next 4-5 years Wilson is in an absolute sweet spot to cement his legacy.

-Brady is 43 and slowing down
-Brees is slowing down
-Rodgers in slowing down
-Stafford and Ryan seem to be on teams that can't get it together


Who are his contemporaries in the NFC in the next few years?

Wentz, Dak, Goff... then young guys like Kyler and Danny Jones.

It's just such a prime spot for him to shine.

Now, he'll have to rip off 2 MVPs and 3 super bowls to be in the actual conversation for GOAT, and I don't think he'll do it, but I do think that one magical season mixed a run of several top 4 QB seasons over the next 4-5 years would put him in the same group as Favre and Rodgers.

[RW3FAN]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I don't think I do that, MFaulkCollector did. But if we're going to talk Greatness all time, we have to take in account the past. otherwise he's just good "right now". Wouldn't you agree?

And when we compare to the past in order to make an all-time assessment, we have to factor in the rule changes that have unquestioningly favored the passing game and this current crop of passers right now. Including Wilson. And even having said that, Jon Kitna sits above Wilson in passing yards RIGHT now.

Greatness also doesn't lie just in Stats. it is wins, it is being best when the lights shine brightest. I'm not sure Wilson is there yet. When the lights shined brightest, The Hawks D held an all time offense to 8 points and the next time, Wilson threw a pick at the goalline. It is a team game, but those are facts. This is not to say he couldn't re-write the narrative with a SB win, or an MVP but it's later that you think, to coin a phrase.

I don't watch every play but being a fellow NFC Wester I watch a lot of Hawks football (Rams, Cards, too). A lot. But the reason I say this is a young guy with the name RW3istheGoat writes this, and he DID write this:



I feel like even the most fanatical Hawk fan would call a time out and say, hey, whoa, He's been great. But maybe we slow our roll with that talk.

Is anything I've said untrue?

I am here to say to "RW3isTHEGOAT", pump the brakes.
All their posts have that feel of coming from a teenager that is gung ho on his favorite player and doesn't quite get reality, cause they're a teenager still.
As a Seahawks fan since 1976, and by my user name you see I'm a RW3 fan.
This said, posts by "RW3isTHEGOAT" all feel pretty cringe worthy.

[Hawksmack]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I don't think I do that, MFaulkCollector did. But if we're going to talk Greatness all time, we have to take in account the past. otherwise he's just good "right now". Wouldn't you agree?

And when we compare to the past in order to make an all-time assessment, we have to factor in the rule changes that have unquestioningly favored the passing game and this current crop of passers right now. Including Wilson. And even having said that, Jon Kitna sits above Wilson in passing yards RIGHT now.

Greatness also doesn't lie just in Stats. it is wins, it is being best when the lights shine brightest. I'm not sure Wilson is there yet. When the lights shined brightest, The Hawks D held an all time offense to 8 points and the next time, Wilson threw a pick at the goalline. It is a team game, but those are facts. This is not to say he couldn't re-write the narrative with a SB win, or an MVP but it's later that you think, to coin a phrase.

I don't watch every play but being a fellow NFC Wester I watch a lot of Hawks football (Rams, Cards, too). A lot. But the reason I say this is a young guy with the name RW3istheGoat writes this, and he DID write this:



I feel like even the most fanatical Hawk fan would call a time out and say, hey, whoa, He's been great. But maybe we slow our roll with that talk.

Is anything I've said untrue?

Well it’s taken Wilson 8 seasons to get to 29k yards passing. It took Kitna 14. Thats 6 more years. Imagine Russ throws for 4000 yards over the next 8 years. Those comparisons are silly. The offense has never been built to air it out 40 times a game for 400 yards. Is Russ capable, absolutely! But it’s not how the Hawks are built. I think the big number is wins. 87 wins through 8 seasons is remarkable. And the fact that he’s never missed one practice or game is amazing. I get he’s probably not big news down in California. But Seattle has never seen a better player. He will be legend here no matter what for bringing the city it’s first super bowl title.

[The_Reverend]

I have an orange refractor and a chrome at PSA. 4 or 5 of these will go to PSA

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by Hawksmack

Well it’s taken Wilson 8 seasons to get to 29k yards passing. It took Kitna 14. Thats 6 more years. Imagine Russ throws for 4000 yards over the next 8 years. Those comparisons are silly. The offense has never been built to air it out 40 times a game for 400 yards. Is Russ capable, absolutely! But it’s not how the Hawks are built. I think the big number is wins. 87 wins through 8 seasons is remarkable. And the fact that he’s never missed one practice or game is amazing. I get he’s probably not big news down in California. But Seattle has never seen a better player. He will be legend here no matter what for bringing the city it’s first super bowl title.

I get it. And obviously not comparing Russ to Kitna in talent, just saying he's down that list a ways. Saying he's #2 behind Brady is... premature... at best.

And yeah - certain markets, NYC in particular, are going to get all the press, because those cities are media hubs. If Wilson played for the Jets and brought them a SB title, likely he would be thought of differently RIGHT NOW.

I was in the Bay when Joe brought the city the first SB title. He was "the greatest of all time" locally after that first SB. So I get it. And I don't hate Wilson but he's got a longgggggg way to go to be in that "Greatest" conversation.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by tjforce

It's just such a prime spot for him to shine.

Now, he'll have to rip off 2 MVPs and 3 super bowls to be in the actual conversation for GOAT, and I don't think he'll do it, but I do think that one magical season mixed a run of several top 4 QB seasons over the next 4-5 years would put him in the same group as Favre and Rodgers.

The NFC West is a tough division. You have to win and at least be a playoff contender to be successful in the hobby.

San Francisco Forty Niners- JimmyG
Seattle Seahawks- Russell Wilson
Los Angeles Rams- Jared Goff
Arizona Cardinals- Kyler Murray

At least two in the NFC West aren't going to the playoffs. That's bad for hobby values. With that Niners defense, it doesnt matter who is behind center. With the way prices are, you're gambling if you're holding. I think Russell Wilson still has a ways to go to lock up a HOF career but he's definitely on the path. I just dont think he's worth the crazy prices you're seeing today. Then again, maybe Goff and Kyler aren't.

[weeds73]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I get it. And obviously not comparing Russ to Kitna in talent, just saying he's down that list a ways. Saying he's #2 behind Brady is... premature... at best.

And yeah - certain markets, NYC in particular, are going to get all the press, because those cities are media hubs. If Wilson played for the Jets and brought them a SB title, likely he would be thought of differently RIGHT NOW.

I was in the Bay when Joe brought the city the first SB title. He was "the greatest of all time" locally after that first SB. So I get it. And I don't hate Wilson but he's got a longgggggg way to go to be in that "Greatest" conversation.

Not sure I subscribe to this theory. Kansas City, Baltimore, and Green Bay are not exactly media hubs, though their quarterbacks get plenty of press. I would tie it more to the “SportsCenter top 10“ effect. Russ is not nearly as flashy as these quarterbacks they truly carry their team, but is smart and consistent


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[weeds73]

Originally Posted by RW3FAN

I am here to say to "RW3isTHEGOAT", pump the brakes.
All their posts have that feel of coming from a teenager that is gung ho on his favorite player and doesn't quite get reality, cause they're a teenager still.
As a Seahawks fan since 1976, and by my user name you see I'm a RW3 fan.
This said, posts by "RW3isTHEGOAT" all feel pretty cringe worthy.

Hopefully, you haven’t been added to the “list” https://youtu.be/jMo_HcRBnUY


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[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

The NFC West is a tough division. You have to win and at least be a playoff contender to be successful in the hobby.

San Francisco Forty Niners- JimmyG
Seattle Seahawks- Russell Wilson
Los Angeles Rams- Jared Goff
Arizona Cardinals- Kyler Murray

At least two in the NFC West aren't going to the playoffs. That's bad for hobby values. With that Niners defense, it doesnt matter who is behind center. With the way prices are, you're gambling if you're holding. I think Russell Wilson still has a ways to go to lock up a HOF career but he's definitely on the path. I just dont think he's worth the crazy prices you're seeing today. Then again, maybe Goff and Kyler aren't.

If you haven't noticed, the NFC West has been tough for a long time...

49ers and Seahawks have had multiple Super Bowl runs throughout Russell's career, and the Rams have had one too. In that time, Wilson has put up the 9th best QB win % in NFL history.

I'm not ready to crown Kyler Murray anything until he proves something on the field.

He's won vs tough competition in the past, I don't see why he can't do it moving forward.

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by weeds73

Not sure I subscribe to this theory. Kansas City, Baltimore, and Green Bay are not exactly media hubs, though their quarterbacks get plenty of press. I would tie it more to the “SportsCenter top 10“ effect. Russ is not nearly as flashy as these quarterbacks they truly carry their team, but is smart and consistent


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I think you said it right there. During the initial SB buildup/run, Sherman and Lynch were the more recognizable stars. You Mad Bro, and The Earthquake run FAR outshined anything russ did.

Mahomes and Jackson were the last two NFL MVPs.

Mahomes was shot out of cannon, throwing a million TDs, no look passes, winning the Super Bowl, starring in commercials. eating catsup on steak. He IS a rock star. He's the Steph Curry of the NFL. Just a video game come to life.

Jackson - we'll see. He gets a lot of attention because he's new, an MVP, but if people "Titans" gameplan them... we'll see if it lasts.

Rodgers has stuck around because of commercials. Honestly, on a national level, those insurance commercials have kept him visible.

But Eli Manning got a lot of press. Yes, he's a Manning, but if he played for the Jags, no one cares.

Subscribe to my theory. You'll feel better.

[Hawksmack]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I think you said it right there. During the initial SB buildup/run, Sherman and Lynch were the more recognizable stars. You Mad Bro, and The Earthquake run FAR outshined anything russ did.

Mahomes and Jackson were the last two NFL MVPs.

Mahomes was shot out of cannon, throwing a million TDs, no look passes, winning the Super Bowl, starring in commercials. eating catsup on steak. He IS a rock star. He's the Steph Curry of the NFL. Just a video game come to life.

Jackson - we'll see. He gets a lot of attention because he's new, an MVP, but if people "Titans" gameplan them... we'll see if it lasts.

Rodgers has stuck around because of commercials. Honestly, on a national level, those insurance commercials have kept him visible.

But Eli Manning got a lot of press. Yes, he's a Manning, but if he played for the Jags, no one cares.

Subscribe to my theory. You'll feel better.

Hey Mahomes is the hot new toy I get it. Same buzz overshadowed Wilson when Andrew Luck was on the scene. And we saw how that turned out. Mahomes is awesome but people paying prices like he is going to throw 50tds every season for the next 15 years. Right now Mahomes is 0-1 against Wilson. I’m stacking Wilson for his prime. Hopefully Russ can gain a little more momentum in the National media to really get him priced accordingly. But looking at completed listings I think Russ is doing alright! And there really isn’t much available in the way of cards since most of his stuff is locked up between a handful of collectors.

[kcroyalsfan8515]

Originally Posted by Hawksmack

Hey Mahomes is the hot new toy I get it. Same buzz overshadowed Wilson when Andrew Luck was on the scene. And we saw how that turned out. Mahomes is awesome but people paying prices like he is going to throw 50tds every season for the next 15 years. Right now Mahomes is 0-1 against Wilson. I’m stacking Wilson for his prime. Hopefully Russ can gain a little more momentum in the National media to really get him priced accordingly. But looking at completed listings I think Russ is doing alright! And there really isn’t much available in the way of cards since most of his stuff is locked up between a handful of collectors.

Russ is a badass and I bought a bunch on the cheap... But TBF.... Russ played against the 31st rank Chiefs defense... Mahomes went against a better unit.... In that one instance

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by tjforce

If you haven't noticed, the NFC West has been tough for a long time...

49ers and Seahawks have had multiple Super Bowl runs throughout Russell's career, and the Rams have had one too. In that time, Wilson has put up the 9th best QB win % in NFL history.

I'm not ready to crown Kyler Murray anything until he proves something on the field.

He's won vs tough competition in the past, I don't see why he can't do it moving forward.

That's my point.....normally only two are going to advance to the playoffs in this Division. But I'm also only talking about 2020 and moving forward. I'm bias but I dont see the Niners finishing lower than a wild card the next 5 years with how young their defense is. So that leaves RW/Kyler and Goff fighting for a playoff spot in that window. Yes, I believe Seattle has the upper hand this year for a wild card but 3 years from now, I'm not seeing it.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

That's my point.....normally only two are going to advance to the playoffs in this Division. But I'm also only talking about 2020 and moving forward. I'm bias but I dont see the Niners finishing lower than a wild card the next 5 years with how young their defense is. So that leaves RW/Kyler and Goff fighting for a playoff spot in that window. Yes, I believe Seattle has the upper hand this year for a wild card but 3 years from now, I'm not seeing it.

Yea... I see what you are saying.

And I'm not making the argument that Russ is going to end up a top 5 QB. But I think he does well enough to be the best QB to come out from 2006-2015.

[Hawksmack]

Originally Posted by kcroyalsfan8515

Russ is a badass and I bought a bunch on the cheap... But TBF.... Russ played against the 31st rank Chiefs defense... Mahomes went against a better unit.... In that one instance

Yeah not sure the bad defense excuse is going to bail you out this time unfortunately. Here is an article written Dec 19 2019. Literally four days before Wilson slayed them.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/arrowhe...se-top-10/amp/

[kcroyalsfan8515]

Originally Posted by Hawksmack

Yeah not sure the bad defense excuse is going to bail you out this time unfortunately. Here is an article written Dec 19 2019. Literally four days before Wilson slayed them.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/arrowhe...se-top-10/amp/

You are right m.. That was a really good chiefs defense actually

[rj.cataldo]

I don’t disagree that Russ has been undervalued, but again this all seems like clever market positioning / manipulation to me. Topps chrome 2012 is not SP, there are a myriad of parallels with high print runs. If pop reports are low, it’s because it wasn’t worth submitting those card in the past. His contenders Rc hasn’t seen near the same spike. Contenders is arguably the go to RC for football. By my count Russ has 699 TOTAL Contenders #225 autos including variations and parallels. If these sales are true then then 2012 contenders is ridiculously undervalued. That’s why I doubt some of the legitimacy of this recent run up.


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[Willikn]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

I don’t disagree that Russ has been undervalued, but again this all seems like clever market positioning / manipulation to me. Topps chrome 2012 is not SP, there are a myriad of parallels with high print runs. If pop reports are low, it’s because it wasn’t worth submitting those card in the past. His contenders Rc hasn’t seen near the same spike. Contenders is arguably the go to RC for football. By my count Russ has 699 TOTAL Contenders #225 autos including variations and parallels. If these sales are true then then 2012 contenders is ridiculously undervalued. That’s why I doubt some of the legitimacy of this recent run up.

Pop reports pretty high compared to all of his other RCs.

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by Willikn

Pop reports pretty high compared to all of his other RCs.

I don’t disagree. I guess what I meant is, the pop report isn’t reflective of availability.


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[MyckKabongo]

Originally Posted by Hawksmack

Yeah not sure the bad defense excuse is going to bail you out this time unfortunately. Here is an article written Dec 19 2019. Literally four days before Wilson slayed them.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/arrowhe...se-top-10/amp/

You've got your years mixed up. The last Seahawks-Chiefs game was back in 2018. The Chiefs D didnt improve until midway through the 2019 season.

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

I don’t disagree. I guess what I meant is, the pop report isn’t reflective of availability.

I am backing your play. Not organic.

[cardrcomeback]

Still think these are good value right now. A PSA 9 Refractor sold for $405. Could easily see it getting up to 800-1K during the season

[49erRCCollector]

I just have trouble paying premium prices for base chrome. That always felt like a baseball thing, and specifically a PSA registry baseball thing.

As someone said above, Contenders - on card auto, etc. That's the card.

[cardrcomeback]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I just have trouble paying premium prices for base chrome. That always felt like a baseball thing, and specifically a PSA registry baseball thing.

As someone said above, Contenders - on card auto, etc. That's the card.

Agree on the base but refractor is a different story