✹The PERENNIAL Shohei Ohtani Thread✹

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by Shadowsonic2004

Me too. Hit single game used ball the other day and 2018 Bowman blue /150 BGS 9.5 tonight.

Did you see the Bowman Pitching BCA Blue auto 9.5 go for $24K? Smokin!

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by zworykin

See? That right there is where you lose the argument. You think a player's value has something to do with his team's results. That doesn't make a lick of sense.

If Ohtani went out there and threw a no-hitter every fifth game, hit 55 home runs, and batted .400, but the rest of the team sucked and they went 62-100, would he still not be the MVP? Just because someone else's team sucked less, allowing him to "carry them on his back" because there wasn't as much dead weight TO carry?

At any rate, it's done. Judge will always have the trophy. And Ohtani will, soon enough, have the contract that demonstrates how much more valuable actual baseball teams, as opposed to writers and Yankee fans, consider him to be than Judge.

Good points, but a question I’ve always wondered is just how much value does a player actually have to a team that’s losing? Wouldn’t it actually be “value” if it adds something? O know baseball is a team sport, but there have been guys in history that have been CY or MVP that won the WS MVP as well.
I’m not knocking Ohtani for being in a losing team, not his fault, just seriously always wondered how a “Most Valuable” tag can be put on player on a losing team.


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[here2havefun]

Some fun Ohtani's in a sub that just popped.

[ThoseBackPages]

i'll say!!!

WOW!

[Shadowsonic2004]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

Did you see the Bowman Pitching BCA Blue auto 9.5 go for $24K? Smokin!

Yea. I assume the buyer sent an offer thru message. Those don't always show what the actual price was on Tera. Just shows it like a BIN price. Mine was just the Bowman Paper Blue that sold at auction tonight.

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by Shadowsonic2004

Yea. I assume the buyer sent an offer thru message. Those don't always show what the actual price was on Tera. Just shows it like a BIN price. Mine was just the Bowman Paper Blue that sold at auction tonight.

It was just a dozen dollars under 24K and the buyer confirmed it on the FB group with the payment confirmation. It was legit. What will the next one sell for is another question, but it's a real sale.

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

Some fun Ohtani's in a sub that just popped.

Love it!!

[The_Reverend]

This picked up for $20. Graded for $19.

[Vdm2018]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

some fun ohtani's in a sub that just popped.

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[Shadowsonic2004]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

It was just a dozen dollars under 24K and the buyer confirmed it on the FB group with the payment confirmation. It was legit. What will the next one sell for is another question, but it's a real sale.

Didn't question if it was legit or not. Knew the sale was done and paid for. Just the price was the question. Relooking now. I see it did end up for less than the BIN price. At $23988. A base recently went for 6100 as BGS 9.5 and 8500 in PSA 9.

[hammertime]

I've been focused on consolidation the past few weeks...turning these:



into these:

[TGCollector]

Too many good looking Ohtani's posted in the forum tonight for me to reply to each one! Love it

[Trueblue]

You make me proud, hammer! The cream rises to the top!!

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Good points, but a question I’ve always wondered is just how much value does a player actually have to a team that’s losing? Wouldn’t it actually be “value” if it adds something? O know baseball is a team sport, but there have been guys in history that have been CY or MVP that won the WS MVP as well.
I’m not knocking Ohtani for being in a losing team, not his fault, just seriously always wondered how a “Most Valuable” tag can be put on player on a losing team.


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The main reason I threw in "losing team" was another poster claimed leading categories in the league or all of MLB doesn't make you valuable which is absolutely ridiculous.

When A-Rod won his first MVP on loser Texas (finished 4th), he at least led the league in Runs, Homeruns, Slugging %, oWar, and the all-coveted WAR. The rest of his counting stats were Top 5 or 10 as well. The second place finisher led in 3 stats: RBI's, OPS, and OPS+ and his team finished 3rd.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

The main reason I threw in "losing team" was another poster claimed leading categories in the league or all of MLB doesn't make you valuable which is absolutely ridiculous.

When A-Rod won his first MVP on loser Texas (finished 4th), he at least led the league in Runs, Homeruns, Slugging %, oWar, and the all-coveted WAR. The rest of his counting stats were Top 5 or 10 as well. The second place finisher led in 3 stats: RBI's, OPS, and OPS+ and his team finished 3rd.

Who on earth said that? I certainly didn't. I said that the award is for value, not for leading categories. That doesn't mean that leading categories isn't valuable. That would be a stupid thing to say. It means that coming in second, or third, or fifth (etc.), is also valuable. And a whole lot of 2s/3s/5s can add up to more than a few 1s. Especially when you're getting them from both sides of the mound instead of just one.

For the record, it was in response to your post which strongly implied he shouldn't win unless he led in at least some categories, which is, to quote you, "absolutely ridiculous."

Originally Posted by fulltritty

He didn't lead in a single hitting or pitching stat last year other than Ks per 9 and many in here still claim he was robbed of an MVP by Judge.

I'm done with this.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by zworykin

Who on earth said that? I certainly didn't. I said that the award is for value, not for leading categories. That doesn't mean that leading categories isn't valuable. That would be a stupid thing to say. It means that coming in second, or third, or fifth (etc.), is also valuable. And a whole lot of 2s/3s/5s can add up to more than a few 1s. Especially when you're getting them from both sides of the mound instead of just one.

For the record, it was in response to your post which strongly implied he shouldn't win unless he led in at least some categories, which is, to quote you, "absolutely ridiculous."



I'm done with this.

He shouldn't win compared to Judge who was clearly more valuable to his team in 2022 than Ohtani was to his. Again that was demonstrated by his statistics at the plate and in the field compared to Ohtani, carrying his injured and struggling team to a playoff berth, and carrying pretty much all of MLB with his chase to beat Maris.

Does Ohtani taking up 2 positions not hurt his team worse and make him even less valuable if he is on the IL for a long period of time since you would have to replace 2 players, not one? I'm not sure why he's always seen as more valuable because he plays 2 positions, but not more risky to the team at the same time.

Ohtani is unique because he is not American nor is he from one of the Hispanic countries that MLB has sunk its claws into to grow prospects from an early age. MLB, Owners, and the Unions (when they came about in 1966) gave up on two way players after the 1920s. This has trickled down to how American and Hispanic players are groomed to play baseball. If having a two-way player is all of a sudden so valuable, where are the articles discussing how MLB, owners, colleges, scouts, etc. are changing the system down to the little league and travel ball level and encouraging this once again from a young age? We will never know if anyone else could have been doing what Ohtani is doing right now, because no one was encouraged to continue down that career path. That's why he is unique.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

Retook sole position of majors triples lead

Only 5 players in MLB history have led the league in both HR and triples: Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Jim Rice, and then 2 guys from 100 years ago.

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by hammertime

I've been focused on consolidation the past few weeks...turning these:

This is the way! Nice work!

[Cards and 401K]

Wow amazing Ohtani s 2back a couple months ago



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[Ziggy]

Sell the 10 and keep the 9. I never pay the 10 tax anymore, but there are plenty of buyers still willing to.

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

Sell the 10 and keep the 9. I never pay the 10 tax anymore, but there are plenty of buyers still willing to.

This is also the way!

[JRX]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

He shouldn't win compared to Judge who was clearly more valuable to his team in 2022 than Ohtani was to his. Again that was demonstrated by his statistics at the plate and in the field compared to Ohtani, carrying his injured and struggling team to a playoff berth, and carrying pretty much all of MLB with his chase to beat Maris.



Does Ohtani taking up 2 positions not hurt his team worse and make him even less valuable if he is on the IL for a long period of time since you would have to replace 2 players, not one? I'm not sure why he's always seen as more valuable because he plays 2 positions, but not more risky to the team at the same time.



Ohtani is unique because he is not American nor is he from one of the Hispanic countries that MLB has sunk its claws into to grow prospects from an early age. MLB, Owners, and the Unions (when they came about in 1966) gave up on two way players after the 1920s. This has trickled down to how American and Hispanic players are groomed to play baseball. If having a two-way player is all of a sudden so valuable, where are the articles discussing how MLB, owners, colleges, scouts, etc. are changing the system down to the little league and travel ball level and encouraging this once again from a young age? We will never know if anyone else could have been doing what Ohtani is doing right now, because no one was encouraged to continue down that career path. That's why he is unique.

I hope the yankees trade for him just to see you turn into his biggest fanboy.

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[BC Hunt]

2019 Rookie Cups are picking up steam...couple examples from yesterday:

Raw #1 Blue /150 did $422
Raw #250 Sapphire did $150

Seems like that's what happens when the nicer RC's are getting out of reach for some/most folks.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by BC Hunt

2019 Rookie Cups are picking up steam...couple examples from yesterday:

Raw #1 Blue /150 did $422
Raw #250 Sapphire did $150

Seems like that's what happens when the nicer RC's are getting out of reach for some/most folks.

yea, that raw blue got a great uniform # bump!

too bad it was raw. ugh.

[BC Hunt]

Originally Posted by TGCollector

Too many good looking Ohtani's posted in the forum tonight for me to reply to each one! Love it

haha, this!