✹The PERENNIAL Shohei Ohtani Thread✹

[Neal]

RCs

NPB - 2013
MLB - 2018

all are acceptable

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[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

He would certainly garner votes, but most likely wouldn't win because of not enough games played (some voters would disqualify him from the ballot strictly due to that).

Manny Ramirez is the closest I can think of as far as a player that played at an MVP level the entire season but got traded mid-season.
In the 100 games he played for the Red Sox in 2008, he hit .299 with 20 HR and 68 RBI, then after getting traded to the Dodgers , hit .396 with 17 HR and 53 RBI in just 53 games. Combined for the season, he hit .332 with 37 HR and 121 RBI. Despite playing in only 53 games for the Dodgers, he finished 4th in MVP voting that year.

...1st and 2nd place (Pujols & Howard) were the runaway favorites that season. While finishing 4th, Manny didn't come even remotely close to winning it. Im sure if Sho Time keeps this kind of pace, he would receive some votes, but not nearly enough to be even be considered the favorite.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

He would certainly garner votes, but most likely wouldn't win because of not enough games played (some voters would disqualify him from the ballot strictly due to that).

Manny Ramirez is the closest I can think of as far as a player that played at an MVP level the entire season but got traded mid-season.
In the 100 games he played for the Red Sox in 2008, he hit .299 with 20 HR and 68 RBI, then after getting traded to the Dodgers , hit .396 with 17 HR and 53 RBI in just 53 games. Combined for the season, he hit .332 with 37 HR and 121 RBI. Despite playing in only 53 games for the Dodgers, he finished 4th in MVP voting that year.

And it was actually even a close 4th - but only in terms of distance from 3rd. Both of them were a mile away from actually contending for the award. He did get two 2nd-place votes, though.



Interestingly, he didn't get a single vote, at any ranking, for AL MVP. Though to be fair he was obviously much better in LA than BOS (just to pick an easy stat, 3.5 WAR in 53 games vs. 2.5 WAR in 100 games - i.e., 0.066 WAR/game vs. 0.025 WAR/game).

[NYBBFAN]

Forget the MVP. What happens if (when) Ohtani hits 64 HR? It won't be an AL record, an NL record, or a major league record.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by zworykin

And it was actually even a close 4th - but only in terms of distance from 3rd. Both of them were a mile away from actually contending for the award. He did get two 2nd-place votes, though.



Interestingly, he didn't get a single vote, at any ranking, for AL MVP. Though to be fair he was obviously much better in LA than BOS (just to pick an easy stat, 3.5 WAR in 53 games vs. 2.5 WAR in 100 games - i.e., 0.066 WAR/game vs. 0.025 WAR/game).

If he had been on the Dodgers that entire season, he might have won MVP going away. He more or less was dogging it with the Bosox that year (but still put up good numbers) but then after he got traded, it lit a fire under his ass.

He was even more insane during the playoffs (.520 AVG, 1.747 OPS ).

[Neal]

Originally Posted by NYBBFAN

Forget the MVP. What happens if (when) Ohtani hits 64 HR? It won't be an AL record, an NL record, or a major league record.

He's staying in the AL, probably with the Angels imo

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[NYBBFAN]

Originally Posted by Neal

He's staying in the AL, probably with the Angels imo

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I hope so, if for nothing else than stat consistency.

[zworykin]

Few things would make me happier than seeing him (a) stay in the AL so that he can (b) reach 64 to surpass Judge's "MVP voters are idiots" record.

I feel like both halves of that are slightly more likely NOT to occur than to occur, but hope springs eternal.

[BabaORiley]

I've been a lifelong Braves fan and have absolutely despised the Yankees for the bulk of the ~40 years of my baseball fandom. During the 1999 WS, while watching at a bar off the UT campus in Austin, roughly around the 20th time I heard the drunken Yankee fans chant "BROSIUS, HE'S FEROCIOUS!" I even became a Red Sox fan for the next decade plus (or until their fans started to become as insufferable as those Yankee fans).

And yet, all this switched-leagues MVP what-if talk coupled with my current disdain for the Dodgers has me starting to root for the Yankees in this trade saga.

[imbluestreak23]

Just had this fun little poppage today:

2022 Topps Triple Threads Relics Sapphire (Triple patch /3) - BGS 9.5

I previously submitted and PSA gave it an 8

[BonVoyage]

Really curious what the return is if he gets traded. Sure sounds like he wants to test free agency this offseason, and has a preference of coasts, so a number of potential trade partners are looking at just a 2mo rental.

[majestik101]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Just had this fun little poppage today:

2022 Topps Triple Threads Relics Sapphire (Triple patch /3) - BGS 9.5

I previously submitted and PSA gave it an 8

Probably still valued about the same as the PSA 8

[comicbooksgo]

I'd love to buy BGS 9.5's at psa 8 prices..Unfortunately (depending on subs) 9.5's are just a bit ahead of PSA 9's at least for the cards I keep track of.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Just had this fun little poppage today:

2022 Topps Triple Threads Relics Sapphire (Triple patch /3) - BGS 9.5

I previously submitted and PSA gave it an 8

sounds about right

[comicbooksgo]

Just started watching this Hitman rips video where he's ripping 2018 Bowman Chrome and he mentioned that "most" collectors consider his rookie in this set to be his "first Bowman" while also mentioning the 2017 Bowman mega card..Is he really this thick? I guess it can be his first bowman AFTER the FIRST bowman, but to me, FIRST BOWMAN usually applies to the first Bowman. Is the 2019 also the first Bowman? Does it depend on what you're ripping/own? Am I a first Bowman Ohtani? Are you? So many questions..

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by zworykin

Few things would make me happier than seeing him (a) stay in the AL so that he can (b) reach 64 to surpass Judge's "MVP voters are idiots" record.

I feel like both halves of that are slightly more likely NOT to occur than to occur, but hope springs eternal.

Needs 63 to pass Judge.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by deemsterz33

Needs 63 to pass Judge.

But 64 to make it convincing

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by comicbooksgo

Just started watching this Hitman rips video where he's ripping 2018 Bowman Chrome and he mentioned that "most" collectors consider his rookie in this set to be his "first Bowman" while also mentioning the 2017 Bowman mega card..Is he really this thick? I guess it can be his first bowman AFTER the FIRST bowman, but to me, FIRST BOWMAN usually applies to the first Bowman. Is the 2019 also the first Bowman? Does it depend on what you're ripping/own? Am I a first Bowman Ohtani? Are you? So many questions..

While not his "first" Bowman, it is his first in an Angels uniform. That distinction is a big deal for most.

[Trueblue]

The only first bowman chrome is his Bowman Pitching auto. That's factual and not a philosophical matter. It's LITERALLY his first Bowman chrome card as a major leaguer.

[zworykin]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

The only first bowman chrome is his Bowman Pitching auto. That's factual and not a philosophical matter. It's LITERALLY his first Bowman chrome card as a major leaguer.

Ah, but there you're getting philosophical by adding a requirement at the end. Isn't the "first Bowman chrome card" of the vast majority of players in fact specifically not a card of them as a major leaguer (silly photoshop aside)?

[comicbooksgo]

His first Bowman card is the Mega. It's an Ohtani card. It's Bowman. It came out before any other Bowman card. That's it. Any argument against that involves qualifiers. I'm still waiting for the first Bowman card where he's on a horse. THAT will be the card to have.

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by zworykin

Ah, but there you're getting philosophical by adding a requirement at the end. Isn't the "first Bowman chrome card" of the vast majority of players in fact specifically not a card of them as a major leaguer (silly photoshop aside)?

2017 Mega is an acceptable answer B if you want to go there. But that still leaves A) Bowman Pitching Auto, B) WBC Mega

That's it.

[BRob1]

Originally Posted by zworykin

There is no "eligibility" or "qualification" rule. https://bbwaa.com/voting-faq/



Voters deciding that he did more for the Angels before he left than anyone else did for their AL team by the end of the season is much more likely - but, as we've seen in the discussion already here, a lot of people consider a trade to the other league to be disqualifying no matter what the actual ballot says, so there are likely some voters who would have the same inexplicable idea. So even that would probably still be a longshot, no matter how well-deserved.

I think it’s a better shot than 1-2 vocal posters here are giving credit for, for two reasons.

* There aren’t a ton of strong candidates in the AL behind him. Seager is having a nice season but he’s missed 30 games. We’ll see if his production keeps up, but at the end of the day he’s going to play a partial season himself. Can’t see either of the Tampa guys being considered MVP level based on current production.

* Ohtani is having an unprecedented year that would likely result in many writers having an unprecedented way of thinking regarding games played. His stats through 100 games when you include hitting/pitching will likely eclipse anyone else’s full year. Hate to make it a WAR discussion because some people automatically tune out, but it will show how his 100 game production stacks up to anyone else’s full season.

If he does get traded to the NL (small chance imo) I’ll be watching mvp betting lines like a hawk.


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[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by comicbooksgo

His first Bowman card is the Mega. It's an Ohtani card. It's Bowman. It came out before any other Bowman card. That's it. Any argument against that involves qualifiers. I'm still waiting for the first Bowman card where he's on a horse. THAT will be the card to have.

Whether you like it or not, it really just comes down to semantics over objectivity. For some his "first" Bowman is his first picture on a Bowman card. For others (most), it's his first Bowman in a major league uniform. Regardless of anyone's opinion, the hobby has spoken, and 2017 Mega will always be an afterthought.

[ThoseBackPages]

the 2017 MEGA PSA 9 is NOT cheap!