Elly De La Cruz

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

As a Reds fan I see our next Aquino here.

I posted this November 2022 and it's aging quite well. Heck, you can easily argue Aquino had a far better start to his big league career.

Cruz will be down around .200 shortly.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

No they sent him back down to AA.

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Perennial playoff contenders after that…

Perennial playoff contender after sending down Trout in 2011??

As shown below, the group of orange represents the 12 season since the Angels sent Trout to AA. Looks like they were a perennial playoff contender BEFORE sending him down in 2011.

Since that time - Won the division once (swept in the first round). Second in the division once (21 games behind the division winner). 3rd or worse in the division otherwise - average of 18.5 behind the division winner.

No knock on Trout, his abilities as a leader, or comment on Elly, but I hope the Reds fare better than the Angels have

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Perennial playoff contender after sending down Trout in 2011??

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You missed the sarcasm in my response. Apparently the answer to the Reds playoff chances and Elly's development is to send him back to the minors.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

You missed the sarcasm in my response. Apparently the answer to the Reds playoff chances and Elly's development is to send him back to the minors.

Lol - I wondered if that was the case! My bad, and agreed on sending Elly down

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

Lol - I wondered if that was the case! My bad, and agreed on sending Elly down

Yeah, I probably used the wrong example with Trout but I don't believe sending Elly down is going to be beneficial. Unless he just completely stinks it up in the field or just has a completely terrible attitude and work ethic, the work to improve should be done at this level. With a player like him, you go all-in and let the veteran players carry the load to the playoffs.

[ThoseBackPages]

he has nothing left to learn in AAA

[OhioLawyerF5]

The notion of sending Elly down is absurd. While I agree he should definitely be moved down in the order, because many of his woes have correlated to hitting leadoff, he is still in the top 5 productive players on the Reds roster right now. Do you send him down to get Senzel or Newman more at bats? LOL. Move him down in the order, let him work on adjustments (which he's had to do at every level, and succeeded), and keep him in the lineup every day. The Reds are in a playoff push and aren't sending down one of their top players.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

The Reds are in a better place since Elly"s call-up. They were 4 games under .500 and about 5 games back. They are above .500 and 1.5 back today. I would also wager those seats are being filled in the stadium more now than they were before June 6. He's a highlight reel waiting g to happen. Your statistic isn't enough to warrant the backlash by Reds and MLB fans.

A little perspective to the Reds being in a better place since the call up. He was called up on June 6th. On June 10th, they started a 12 game winning streak. The final game of that winning streak was the game the Elly hit for the cycle. At that point they went from 4 games under .500 to being 6 games over .500 and 1.5 games up in the division. Elly's struggles started right after the cycle game. They are 19-21 after the end of that streak and are back to 1.5 down in the division.

Elly Stats
6/6-6/23: .361/.418/.656, 3 hr, 10 rbi, 7 steals, 17 runs, 28.4% k-rate, 1.1 fWAR, team record 14-2 in 16 games

6/24-8/8: .220/.269/.377, 6 hr, 12 rbi, 10 steals, 25 runs, 36.3% k-rate, 0.1 fWAR, team record 19-21 in 40 games.

All that to say that it isn't just one person that's the reason for either, he wasn't the only one that was hot during the 14-2 streak and he's not the only one cooled off in the 19-21 stretch.

[brios8]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

The notion of sending Elly down is absurd. While I agree he should definitely be moved down in the order, because many of his woes have correlated to hitting leadoff, he is still in the top 5 productive players on the Reds roster right now. Do you send him down to get Senzel or Newman more at bats? LOL. Move him down in the order, let him work on adjustments (which he's had to do at every level, and succeeded), and keep him in the lineup every day. The Reds are in a playoff push and aren't sending down one of their top players.

Send him down to work on his issues + get more experience and try out Noelvi Marte
He should be more consistent and could use the MLB experience.
His ceiling might not be like Elly’s, but he could be good and more consistant overall. Or at least set him up for an offseason trade

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

The notion of sending Elly down is absurd. While I agree he should definitely be moved down in the order, because many of his woes have correlated to hitting leadoff, he is still in the top 5 productive players on the Reds roster right now. Do you send him down to get Senzel or Newman more at bats? LOL. Move him down in the order, let him work on adjustments (which he's had to do at every level, and succeeded), and keep him in the lineup every day. The Reds are in a playoff push and aren't sending down one of their top players.

Over the last 6 weeks he’a been the 450th most productive player in baseball (just behind Nick Senziel) so i would say it’s unlikely he’s one of top 5 most Productive players on the reds. While that’s possibly true if you count his hot start it’s certainly not the case since pitchers have gotten their scouting reports

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

Perennial playoff contenders after that move ......

The Reds are in a better place since Elly"s call-up. They were 4 games under .500 and about 5 games back. They are above .500 and 1.5 back today. I would also wager those seats are being filled in the stadium more now than they were before June 6. He's a highlight reel waiting g to happen. Your statistic isn't enough to warrant the backlash by Reds and MLB fans.

A large part of that run is abbot being called up the same day and posting a 3x higher war then Cruz, but I certainly agree that he puts people in seats, but winning also does that

[SupermanBrandon]

The Reds are all in on him being a big star. Either he figures it out up in the majors or he doesn't. No reason to go to AAA.

[ThoseBackPages]

do you guys realize the HUGE gap in pitching levels between AAA and MLB?

he wont learn anything hitting AAA pitching

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

do you guys realize the HUGE gap in pitching levels between AAA and MLB?

he wont learn anything hitting AAA pitching

I think he needs to make an adjustment to his swing. Something to change his swing path to prevent swinging over the top on everything, to fix launch angle issues. And adjustments are easier to make in the minors, where the competition isn't as strong and where you can build confidence in those changes, without the pennant race pressure. It's not necessarily about having nothing left to prove at AAA.

Hell, the Blue Jays sent Alek Manoah down to rookie ball to work through some things. He finished third in CYA voting last year, I'd say he had nothing left to prove in the minors.

[SupermanBrandon]

This coming off season will be VERY telling on Elly

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

do you guys realize the HUGE gap in pitching levels between AAA and MLB?

he wont learn anything hitting AAA pitching

This is the other problem I’ve been saying. Almost all of his success in the majors has essentially come off AAA pitchers that are on major league rosters. His splits vs guys with elite stuff is alarming. But it’s also means when he fsces a Perez or a lizard o you can fish +170 on -.5 hits

[SupermanBrandon]

IF we could just get a single "highlight" (maybe a hard throw from SS) ASAP...we can forget about his issues for the next 10 days until the next random highlight drops.

[imbluestreak23]

I had two NPBers on mid end 4 fig cards.

Including one convicted felon per news records. What has this hobby come to. SMH

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by whitmm

I think he needs to make an adjustment to his swing. Something to change his swing path to prevent swinging over the top on everything, to fix launch angle issues. And adjustments are easier to make in the minors, where the competition isn't as strong and where you can build confidence in those changes, without the pennant race pressure. It's not necessarily about having nothing left to prove at AAA.

Hell, the Blue Jays sent Alek Manoah down to rookie ball to work through some things. He finished third in CYA voting last year, I'd say he had nothing left to prove in the minors.

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

This is the other problem I’ve been saying. Almost all of his success in the majors has essentially come off AAA pitchers that are on major league rosters. His splits vs guys with elite stuff is alarming. But it’s also means when he fsces a Perez or a lizard o you can fish +170 on -.5 hits

Fair points Fellas

[JRX]

Two things that stand out is that he's been awful vs lefties and even though he has speed, maybe he shouldn't be batting leadoff. I get why you would want him up there, but he seemed to thrive more when guys were on base ahead of him. Not sure if the LH/RH splits were as bad in the minors, but maybe he won't be able to pull of switch hitting.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Fair points Fellas

I wasn't trying to say he needs to be sent down just because. I think there are things that he needs to work on.

At the end of the day, I think management and ownership is going to take more butts in seats over trying to get a player straightened out. And as Brandon pointed out, this offseason is going to be huge for him. I just wonder where he is going to go to see MLB level pitching to work on his pitch tracking and plate discipline.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by JRX

Two things that stand out is that he's been awful vs lefties and even though he has speed, maybe he shouldn't be batting leadoff. I get why you would want him up there, but he seemed to thrive more when guys were on base ahead of him. Not sure if the LH/RH splits were as bad in the minors, but maybe he won't be able to pull of switch hitting.

The manager certainly isn't exactly helping the team when you have .259/.311/.455 and .223/.294/.374 hitting first and second in your lineup. That was Elly and Senzel yesterday

[JRX]

Originally Posted by whitmm

The manager certainly isn't exactly helping the team when you have .259/.311/.455 and .223/.294/.374 hitting first and second in your lineup. That was Elly and Senzel yesterday

So I was able to find his minor league stats on bbref and he's historically been a much weaker hitter vs lefties. He may be a candidate to give up on switch hitting or worst case he becomes strong side platoon player.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

IF we could just get a single "highlight" (maybe a hard throw from SS) ASAP...we can forget about his issues for the next 10 days until the next random highlight drops.

He had the chance. Bottom 9, 2 outs, down 1. Went down swinging.

[hammertime]

Batting 3rd may just suit him.