Topps Living Set

[tdubs1010]

Jared,

Here are my six:

Barry Larkin
Frank Robinson
Mike Schmidt
Reggie Jackson
Joe Morgan
(Personal Favorite)- Eric Davis

[eldavojohn]

Almost all the names I would pick for a set of six have been listed (even Kent Hrbek!) so I'll take a different route.

I think it'd be really cool to start a tradition of selecting a player from the world series that happened 100 years before the current year world series. And the text on the back could include a common starting phrase like: "A century ago, Irish Meusel hit a three run homer in the first during Game 2 for the New York Giants which ended in a tie."

I don't think the print run would be very high but I think it'd be super cool. I know it kind of mimics the Turn Back the Clock cards but those cards focus on modern events probably due to how bad the photography (if any) was 100 years ago. The downside is it would be asking you to colorize your reference photos ... but that'd be pretty dang cool to me.

[jdandns]

Garvey, Cey, Lopes, 81 Valenzuela, 88 Hershiser, and Dusty Baker as a Dodger, maybe high-fiving...

[jaredkelley]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

Almost all the names I would pick for a set of six have been listed (even Kent Hrbek!) so I'll take a different route.

I think it'd be really cool to start a tradition of selecting a player from the world series that happened 100 years before the current year world series. And the text on the back could include a common starting phrase like: "A century ago, Irish Meusel hit a three run homer in the first during Game 2 for the New York Giants which ended in a tie."

I don't think the print run would be very high but I think it'd be super cool. I know it kind of mimics the Turn Back the Clock cards but those cards focus on modern events probably due to how bad the photography (if any) was 100 years ago. The downside is it would be asking you to colorize your reference photos ... but that'd be pretty dang cool to me.

I like this idea. The short print runs would make is a challenging subset to collect. Colorizing old photos is more time consuming but much more rewarding. I love seeing a finished portrait done from old B&W photos (that's partly why I love Graig Kreindler's work so much). Bringing those old moments to life in the Living Set would be fun.

[Joliet Jake]

Originally Posted by jaredkelley

I just realized that I only have 6 portraits left to paint in 2022. Any suggestions?

From the ESPN Top 100 List, I'd like to see.

• Satchel Paige (HOF '71)
• Reggie Jackson (HOF '93)
• Cap Anson (HOF '39)
• Shoeless Joe Jackson
• John Smoltz (HOF '15)
• Barry Larkin (HOF '12)

Others I would like to see considered.

• Buck O'Neil (HOF '22)
• Lee Smith (HOF '19)
• Trevor Hoffman (HOF '18)
• Walter Johnson (HOF '36)
• Christy Mathewson (HOF '36)

I'd especially like to see you paint Johnson and Mathewson since Seto has already done 3/5 players from the inaugural HOF class.

Personal requests.

• Rowdy Tellez
• Brad Kilby
• Elmer Myers
• Richie Myers
• Buck Martinez

[Joliet Jake]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

Almost all the names I would pick for a set of six have been listed (even Kent Hrbek!) so I'll take a different route.

I think it'd be really cool to start a tradition of selecting a player from the world series that happened 100 years before the current year world series. And the text on the back could include a common starting phrase like: "A century ago, Irish Meusel hit a three run homer in the first during Game 2 for the New York Giants which ended in a tie."

I don't think the print run would be very high but I think it'd be super cool. I know it kind of mimics the Turn Back the Clock cards but those cards focus on modern events probably due to how bad the photography (if any) was 100 years ago. The downside is it would be asking you to colorize your reference photos ... but that'd be pretty dang cool to me.

Originally Posted by jaredkelley

I like this idea. The short print runs would make is a challenging subset to collect. Colorizing old photos is more time consuming but much more rewarding. I love seeing a finished portrait done from old B&W photos (that's partly why I love Graig Kreindler's work so much). Bringing those old moments to life in the Living Set would be fun.

I love this idea!

Would there be any interest in not colorizing the reference photos? Would Topps even go for that?

The older players that are unlikely to receive any attention outside of a century link with the current World Series is also a good reason to feature them while the connection is viable.

Speaking of Kreindler, he's an artist I'd love to see added to the Living Set. Or a Living Set for a different sport if that's ever considered in the future. His work in the Topps 150 Years of Baseball set from 2019 was amazing.

[gmarutiak]

Originally Posted by jaredkelley

I just realized that I only have 6 portraits left to paint in 2022. Any suggestions?

Jack Clark (Cardinals)
Steve Blass
Bill Mazeroski
Willie McGee (Cardinals)

[Fsegaud]

Originally Posted by gmarutiak

Willie McGee (Cardinals)

Easter Egg: UFO in the sky

[Chihuahuas]

Originally Posted by Joliet Jake

That's cool Topps liked the idea. I think including current managers as players earlier in their career would be cool.

New cards are up

[Joliet Jake]

Originally Posted by Chihuahuas

New cards are up

Oh, wow!

I did not expect that!

I really like the inclusion.

[Joliet Jake]

Topps MLB® Living Set® Card #569 - Cal Raleigh - PR: 2136


Topps MLB® Living Set® Card #570 - Dusty Baker - PR: 2502

[Joliet Jake]

Alright, Jared, we need the details. How did this go down?

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by Joliet Jake

Oh, wow!

I did not expect that!

I really like the inclusion.

Love the artwork but I'm going to be honest here folks: I do not like that managers or coaching staff are now options in this set. It's a big turn off, they weren't included in the 1953 set either. Call me pedantic but ... well, the future of this set now is limitless to coaches, announcers, owners, mascots, celebrity/super fans, etc.

From the Dusty Baker card page:

Only one card will be issued per MLB player unless that player changes teams. Two new players will be offered every week and will be available for purchase for just one week on Topps.com.

So how many Dusty Baker cards are possible now? If he manages another team or is like the batting coach? Why make rules at all?

[Joliet Jake]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

Love the artwork but I'm going to be honest here folks: I do not like that managers or coaching staff are now options in this set. It's a big turn off, they weren't included in the 1953 set either. Call me pedantic but ... well, the future of this set now is limitless to coaches, announcers, owners, mascots, celebrity/super fans, etc.

From the Dusty Baker card page:

So how many Dusty Baker cards are possible now? If he manages another team or is like the batting coach? Why make rules at all?

I definitely understand your argument, and if Topps does decide to update the rules of the set, I hope they're clear about manager inclusions.

I don't mind a bit of deviation from the original '53 set, but too much and it becomes something it was never envisioned to be.

If managers are eligible now, I would like to see them limited to the World Series winning manager, and have them featured the week after the series ends. This could be a fun way to include them, without going overboard.

I know this will also mean there are a number of managers that other collectors will want to see in the set, but even then, maybe Topps should limit it to HOF members.

I think there's a lot of discussion to be had around this idea, and I'm curious to see where it goes.

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by Joliet Jake

I definitely understand your argument, and if Topps does decide to update the rules of the set, I hope they're clear about manager inclusions.

Sorry if I framed it as an argument, it was more so just my opinion with reasoning supporting my opinion (maybe that is, in essence, an argument). Not trying to change anyone's mind, to be clear, just voicing how I feel.

Originally Posted by Joliet Jake

I don't mind a bit of deviation from the original '53 set, but too much and it becomes something it was never envisioned to be.

If managers are eligible now, I would like to see them limited to the World Series winning manager, and have them featured the week after the series ends. This could be a fun way to include them, without going overboard.

I know this will also mean there are a number of managers that other collectors will want to see in the set, but even then, maybe Topps should limit it to HOF members.

I mean where does it stop though? You want your Harry Carays and George Steinbrenners then just change the rules and be done with it to "players or HoF inductees". At least I'll know that I don't really need a full set then.

Originally Posted by Joliet Jake

I think there's a lot of discussion to be had around this idea, and I'm curious to see where it goes.

I think there were plenty of interesting things to be done within the bounds of the rules. As I said before, they were burning through HoFers at an unsustainable rate so maybe I should have known long ago we were going to get here eventually. I guess in retrospect, it's my fault.

[Joliet Jake]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

Sorry if I framed it as an argument, it was more so just my opinion with reasoning supporting my opinion (maybe that is, in essence, an argument). Not trying to change anyone's mind, to be clear, just voicing how I feel.

No worries. I don't consider an argument to be inherently combative. I can't say I'm far off from your opinion. The sharing and enjoying of the set has been very fun.

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

I mean where does it stop though? You want your Harry Carays and George Steinbrenners then just change the rules and be done with it to "players or HoF inductees". At least I'll know that I don't really need a full set then.

On a selfish note, I think Harry Caray would be awesome. However, I agree we can't just make exceptions and then continue to adjust the rules on the fly once our personal interests have been satisfied.

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

I think there were plenty of interesting things to be done within the bounds of the rules. As I said before, they were burning through HoFers at an unsustainable rate so maybe I should have known long ago we were going to get here eventually. I guess in retrospect, it's my fault.

While I may be excited about the inclusion of Dusty as a manager today, I may end up regretting that in the future, as only time will tell how this changes the course of the set.

I agree, there were plenty of options available to Topps within the rules they established for the set. As of today, there have been 22,860 Major League players, according to Baseball Reference. We'll never get through them all in one lifetime. There are so many players that would be fun to see featured, but I think the primary problem collectors will continue to run into is the disconnect between fun and profit. Topps, soon to be Fanatics, is in the business of cards. Some collectors, not all, are in the hobby of collecting cards. Unfortunately, there will always be tension between the two. The Dusty card may sell like hotcakes, causing Topps to consider additional managers for the set. Or it may bomb and Topps moves on, making Dusty the only manager card ever featured. I'm curious to see what happens, and while I haven't loved every decision Topps has made, I hope other collectors still enjoy this set, as I do.

[Chihuahuas]

Originally Posted by Joliet Jake

No worries. I don't consider an argument to be inherently combative. I can't say I'm far off from your opinion. The sharing and enjoying of the set has been very fun.



On a selfish note, I think Harry Caray would be awesome. However, I agree we can't just make exceptions and then continue to adjust the rules on the fly once our personal interests have been satisfied.



While I may be excited about the inclusion of Dusty as a manager today, I may end up regretting that in the future, as only time will tell how this changes the course of the set.

I agree, there were plenty of options available to Topps within the rules they established for the set. As of today, there have been 22,860 Major League players, according to Baseball Reference. We'll never get through them all in one lifetime. There are so many players that would be fun to see featured, but I think the primary problem collectors will continue to run into is the disconnect between fun and profit. Topps, soon to be Fanatics, is in the business of cards. Some collectors, not all, are in the hobby of collecting cards. Unfortunately, there will always be tension between the two. The Dusty card may sell like hotcakes, causing Topps to consider additional managers for the set. Or it may bomb and Topps moves on, making Dusty the only manager card ever featured. I'm curious to see what happens, and while I haven't loved every decision Topps has made, I hope other collectors still enjoy this set, as I do.

Interesting discussion from all today. I am enjoying the uniqueness of a “living” breathing, evolving set. Having mix of rookies, current & past players, HOF, would never happen like it does in this set. Topps having open mind & actually listening to both artists & collectors is amazing.

Again, stunning art work this week from both artists!

[Stric9]

Astros breaking the rules of the Living Set too!

[BoofBonser26]

Extremely curious for whatever behind the scenes peek Jared can offer behind the inclusion of Dusty as a manager, which certainly surprised me.

For my personal taste, I'm quite happy with it. Though the original set didn't have managers, it also didn't have non-MLB players, and I'm happy we have Gibson now (hopefully with others to follow). I do understand the slippery-slope argument, but I also hope it will be easy to hold the line at "players and managers".

Now, as long as we're changing the rules, how about issuing multiple cards for retired players...would much rather have, say, Vlad Sr. as both an Angel and an Expo (or pick your better example, there's plenty) than Josh Bell for a third time (a real danger we face!).

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by BoofBonser26

Now, as long as we're changing the rules, how about issuing multiple cards for retired players...would much rather have, say, Vlad Sr. as both an Angel and an Expo (or pick your better example, there's plenty) than Josh Bell for a third time (a real danger we face!).

Well you face the very real posibility of catcher mask vs batting helmet vs no headgear I guess if Star Wars is anything to go off of:


Don't get me wrong, I love both cards but they're both from The Force Awakens and the rules on the pages says:

As part of the Living Set program, Topps will only issue one card per character per film, live-action series or animated series. Two new characters will be offered every week and will be available for purchase for just one week.

[jaredkelley]

Originally Posted by Joliet Jake

Alright, Jared, we need the details. How did this go down?

I was surprised by the request myself. One of the last communications I had with Topps before getting the Dusty assignment on Sunday was to pitch the idea of painting Dusty from his playing days; an option certainly within the original rules of the set. Topps loved the idea of including Dusty in the set.

I also know that as the 6th year approaches, Topps is looking for ways to keep the set fresh with collectors; the inclusion of Negro League players, being an example.

Many collectors have requested managers be added to the set over the last couple years and Topps has obviously noticed. I don't know exactly what convinced Topps to pull the trigger on this idea since I'm not privy to their internal discussions but I can only speculate that Topps saw the World Series win as the perfect timing to bring in Dusty and implement this new change.

When I relay collectors requests and suggestions for the set, I never characterize those suggestions as "good" or "bad". I try to be as impartial as I can when I relay your suggestions. It's your set, after all; you're the collectors. I figure Topps pays people to make those judgement calls. Topps obviously believes this will be an overall good move for the growth of the set long-term, and I can verify that Topps was aware that there would be purists who would not like this change. Topps took their opposition into consideration.

I don't know what this means as far as any "new" rules for the set. For example, can we expect ANY manager in the set? or just World Series winning managers? sportscaster? owners? I'm waiting to see along with the rest of you who I start getting assigned. (although, I am praying that I don't ever have to paint a rally squirrel or mascot)

I can say that I have enjoyed painting in the set and I still see it as the funnest set to collect. I love seeing Topps react and pivot to collectors' requests and suggestions.

[Joliet Jake]

Originally Posted by Chihuahuas

Interesting discussion from all today. I am enjoying the uniqueness of a “living” breathing, evolving set. Having mix of rookies, current & past players, HOF, would never happen like it does in this set. Topps having open mind & actually listening to both artists & collectors is amazing.

Again, stunning art work this week from both artists!

I too enjoy the fact this set embodies the word "living" and all that entails.

The art continues to be amazing, and it makes any grumbles I may easier to accept.

Originally Posted by Stric9

Astros breaking the rules of the Living Set too!

I laughed out loud at this. Well played!

Originally Posted by BoofBonser26

Extremely curious for whatever behind the scenes peek Jared can offer behind the inclusion of Dusty as a manager, which certainly surprised me.

For my personal taste, I'm quite happy with it. Though the original set didn't have managers, it also didn't have non-MLB players, and I'm happy we have Gibson now (hopefully with others to follow). I do understand the slippery-slope argument, but I also hope it will be easy to hold the line at "players and managers".

Now, as long as we're changing the rules, how about issuing multiple cards for retired players...would much rather have, say, Vlad Sr. as both an Angel and an Expo (or pick your better example, there's plenty) than Josh Bell for a third time (a real danger we face!).

I'm definitely a proponent of one card per player per team. It's far more exciting to see a HOF player featured with a different team than a second or third card from a current player that's not a star. No disrespect to Josh Bell.

I think the addition of Josh Gibson, and hopefully more Negro Leaguers to come, became an option when the stats were made a part of MLB history.

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

Well you face the very real posibility of catcher mask vs batting helmet vs no headgear I guess if Star Wars is anything to go off of:


Don't get me wrong, I love both cards but they're both from The Force Awakens and the rules on the pages says:

This would definitely be an issue if it were to happen in the MLB set. It's one thing to feature a player twice, on two different teams, but a different reference photo from the same team would be ridiculous.

This Kylo Ren example is especially egregious, considering he's featured in all three sequel films and at least one animated series.

Here's hoping that never happens with this set.

Originally Posted by jaredkelley

I was surprised by the request myself. One of the last communications I had with Topps before getting the Dusty assignment on Sunday was to pitch the idea of painting Dusty from his playing days; an option certainly within the original rules of the set. Topps loved the idea of including Dusty in the set.

I also know that as the 6th year approaches, Topps is looking for ways to keep the set fresh with collectors; the inclusion of Negro League players, being an example.

Many collectors have requested managers be added to the set over the last couple years and Topps has obviously noticed. I don't know exactly what convinced Topps to pull the trigger on this idea since I'm not privy to their internal discussions but I can only speculate that Topps saw the World Series win as the perfect timing to bring in Dusty and implement this new change.

When I relay collectors requests and suggestions for the set, I never characterize those suggestions as "good" or "bad". I try to be as impartial as I can when I relay your suggestions. It's your set, after all; you're the collectors. I figure Topps pays people to make those judgement calls. Topps obviously believes this will be an overall good move for the growth of the set long-term, and I can verify that Topps was aware that there would be purists who would not like this change. Topps took their opposition into consideration.

I don't know what this means as far as any "new" rules for the set. For example, can we expect ANY manager in the set? or just World Series winning managers? sportscaster? owners? I'm waiting to see along with the rest of you who I start getting assigned. (although, I am praying that I don't ever have to paint a rally squirrel or mascot)

I can say that I have enjoyed painting in the set and I still see it as the funnest set to collect. I love seeing Topps react and pivot to collectors' requests and suggestions.

While any one of us could find something to complain about with regards to Topps, the fact they're listening to collectors when it comes to this set is fantastic.

It's reassuring knowing if the set veers in a direction most collectors don't like, that course correction is possible. Now, I hope that's never the case, but the reassurance is still nice.

As for new rules, if they are going to include managers occasionally, I'll reiterate what I said earlier. I hope they limit it to the current World Series winning manager and/or those in the HOF.

If Topps ever decides to include a mascot or rally squirrel, we'll know they've changed lanes completely and joined Topps Now, where anything goes.

Thank you again, Jared, for continuing to share the process with us!

[jaredkelley]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

Well you face the very real posibility of catcher mask vs batting helmet vs no headgear I guess if Star Wars is anything to go off of:


Don't get me wrong, I love both cards but they're both from The Force Awakens and the rules on the pages says:

Eldavojohn - your voice was in the back of my mind whispering "This is wrong" the entire time I was trying to focus on completing Dusty's portrait.

The fact that Star Wars LS considers Kylo Ren two completely different characters base on his physical appearance makes me very hopeful that we'll be able to see a skinny McGwire/Bonds/Sosa and a swoll McGwire/Bonds/Sosa within the MLB set someday.

[Natsfan32]

I was very happy to see the Dusty card. In this case one could argue that Dusty was the star of this World Series. Personally I am not an Astros fan but I rooted for them because of Dusty. In general Topps has a long history of including manager cards in its base sets, regardless of whether they did so in 1953. I would be very happy to see a select group of managers - primarily HOFers of future HOFers. Joe Torre should be next, either as a Yankee manager, a Brave or a Cardinal.

[byronscott4ever]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

Well you face the very real posibility of catcher mask vs batting helmet vs no headgear I guess if Star Wars is anything to go off of:


Don't get me wrong, I love both cards but they're both from The Force Awakens and the rules on the pages says:

Maybe they thought he got traded and applied the MLB rules?