Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. - Page 501

Clause37 · 09-07-2021, 03:13 PM

As of now, I think Vlad would need to crack 50 HR and have the triple crown to take many first place votes from Shohei. However, he's got a few first place and most 2nd place votes locked up. Too bad many people only see the best as acceptable, as 2nd place MVP at 22 is going solidify him with a legacy that is his to lose.

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 03:18 PM

I would have loved to see what a prime Madison Bumgarner could have done with an AL team and DH'ing.

kordell1 · 09-07-2021, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

I would have loved to see what a prime Madison Bumgarner could have done with an AL team and DH'ing.

DeGrom is a way better pitcher and is batting 109 points higher than Ohtani, so I guess he is a lock for NL MVP.

rman112 · 09-07-2021, 03:23 PM

I think a good question, as a litmus test for the AL MVP, is this:

Vlad's been hot - 22 for his last 51. Ohtani, ice cold. 6 for his last 50, 23 of those strikeouts.

Has there been any movement in the MVP race?

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rman112

I think a good question, as a litmus test for the AL MVP, is this:

Vlad's been hot - 22 for his last 51. Ohtani, ice cold. 6 for his last 50, 23 of those strikeouts.

Has there been any movement in the MVP race?

Also, what if those patterns play out for the rest of this month?

rman112 · 09-07-2021, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Also, what if those patterns play out for the rest of this month?

If Ohtani is still pitching well, I think we could see him drop into the .240's with only a few more homers than now, and still win by a solid margin.

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rman112

If Ohtani is still pitching well, I think we could see him drop into the .240's with only a few more homers than now, and still win by a solid margin.

That brings me to my next question. Why the hell are the Angels still pitching him? The season is over. Just shut him down and let him DH every day.

rman112 · 09-07-2021, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

That brings me to my next question. Why the hell are the Angels still pitching him? The season is over. Just shut him down and let him DH every day.

Honestly, I think they're crazy. He's showed fatigue multiple times this year. He was gassed last outing, so what do they do? Let him throw the most pitches he ever has as an Angel.

They're going to kill him.

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rman112

Honestly, I think they're crazy. He's showed fatigue multiple times this year. He was gassed last outing, so what do they do? Let him throw the most pitches he ever has as an Angel.

They're going to kill him.

And the crazy part is that he's only thrown 112 IP. That's tied for 85th in the majors.

rman112 · 09-07-2021, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

And the crazy part is that he's only thrown 112 IP. That's tied for 85th in the majors.

I don't think that should be held against him. The fatigue was to be expected. The workload to hit, pitch, run the bases, steal bases, plus all the work on the side.. it's massive.

I think the biggest problem is that Ohtani wants to do it. That's great, but who's going to tell him to maybe slow down a little? Pitchers never want to come out of the game, and Maddon is just going to let him go, both to try and save his own job, and because Ohtani's star has grown so bright.

eye4talent · 09-07-2021, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

I would have loved to see what a prime Madison Bumgarner could have done with an AL team and DH'ing.

This is part of why my Ohtani excitement is slightly tempered: I'm a Giants fan who saying in the back of his head, "MadBum would've been a beast with regular at-bats."

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eye4talent

This is part of why my Ohtani excitement is slightly tempered: I'm a Giants fan who saying in the back of his head, "MadBum would've been a beast with regular at-bats."

Yeah, and I didn't even mention the GOAT, Mike Hampton.

ThoseBackPages · 09-07-2021, 05:27 PM

ive never looked at MadBum as a pure hitter

ever

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

ive never looked at MadBum as a pure hitter

ever

I know, just thought experiments.

Sort of like "what had happened if Rick Ankiel could have kept pitching"? Could he have been a two-way player?

ThoseBackPages · 09-07-2021, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

I know, just thought experiments.

Sort of like "what had happened if Rick Ankiel could have kept pitching"? Could he have been a two-way player?

thats fair.

i wish Ohtani would have gone full time RFer

jhssketchcards · 09-07-2021, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rman112

If Ohtani is still pitching well, I think we could see him drop into the .240's with only a few more homers than now, and still win by a solid margin.

If he does it will be a joke of a vote. The main reason people will vote for him is the hype from June and pre ASG. He hit .245 in May and .202 in August, so far a robust .100 in September. That’s MVP?
Not sure how people can lock a vote up in June or early July. I get the excitement and hype and it’s incredible he can do it, but that doesn’t mean he’s the most valuable player of the league.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rman112 · 09-07-2021, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

If he does it will be a joke of a vote. The main reason people will vote for him is the hype from June and pre ASG. He hit .245 in May and .202 in August, so far a robust .100 in September. That’s MVP?
Not sure how people can lock a vote up in June or early July. I get the excitement and hype and it’s incredible he can do it, but that doesn’t mean he’s the most valuable player of the league.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except he's also been pitching well during that same time.

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

If he does it will be a joke of a vote. The main reason people will vote for him is the hype from June and pre ASG. He hit .245 in May and .202 in August, so far a robust .100 in September. That’s MVP?
Not sure how people can lock a vote up in June or early July. I get the excitement and hype and it’s incredible he can do it, but that doesn’t mean he’s the most valuable player of the league.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is also my take.

Decent Pitcher + Decent Hitter =/= MVP

rman112 · 09-07-2021, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

This is also my take.

Decent Pitcher + Decent Hitter =/= MVP

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I don't see how 9-1 with a 2.97 ERA is a "decent pitcher".

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rman112

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I don't see how 9-1 with a 2.97 ERA is a "decent pitcher".

I mean, he's decent. Win/Loss records don't indicate great pitching.

Yes, he has some stats that are pretty dang good, like: WHIP, K:9, etc.

He also has only pitched 112 innings.

So, I'm going with the adjective "decent" since he's not even really a full-time pitcher. He's a full-time DH that also pitches.

rman112 · 09-07-2021, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

I mean, he's decent. Win/Loss records don't indicate great pitching.

Yes, he has some stats that are pretty dang good, like: WHIP, K:9, etc.

He also has only pitched 112 innings.

So, I'm going with the adjective "decent" since he's not even really a full-time pitcher. He's a full-time DH that also pitches.

A sub-3 ERA is exceptional. The Cy Young favorite either has a 2.73 ERA or a 2.60 ERA. Now obviously the innings aren't there, but Ohtani's supplemented that with 43 HR and 93 RBI.

hammertime · 09-07-2021, 06:01 PM

I don't think Ohtani's BA matters as much as if he hits the nice round number milestones like 50 HRs, 100 RBIs, 30 SBs, 10 Ws, etc. Obviously if he bats 1000 the rest of the way then he's golden but if he winds up at .240 I don't think too many people will care if he achieves the other things I mentioned.

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammertime

I don't think Ohtani's BA matters as much as if he hits the nice round number milestones like 50 HRs, 100 RBIs, 30 SBs, 10 Ws, etc. Obviously if he bats 1000 the rest of the way then he's golden but if he winds up at .240 I don't think too many people will care if he achieves the other things I mentioned.

Since 1970, the lowest batting average for an AL MVP was in 2014... Mike Trout... with .287

brios8 · 09-07-2021, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Since 1970, the lowest batting average for an AL MVP was in 2014... Mike Trout... with .287

What about the NL MVP?
Looks like Tatis might win with around .280-.285

rngrdanny22 · 09-07-2021, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brios8

What about the NL MVP?
Looks like Tatis might win with around .280-.285

Since 1970, it looks like Johnny Bench in 1972 when he hit .270

09-07-2021, 05:27 PM	#12513
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 89,434 ThoseBackPages	ive never looked at MadBum as a pure hitter ever __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

09-07-2021, 03:13 PM	#12501
Clause37 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 170 Clause37	As of now, I think Vlad would need to crack 50 HR and have the triple crown to take many first place votes from Shohei. However, he's got a few first place and most 2nd place votes locked up. Too bad many people only see the best as acceptable, as 2nd place MVP at 22 is going solidify him with a legacy that is his to lose.

09-07-2021, 03:18 PM	#12502
rngrdanny22 Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 12,372	I would have loved to see what a prime Madison Bumgarner could have done with an AL team and DH'ing.

09-07-2021, 03:23 PM	#12504
rman112 Banned Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Freedom is Free Again Posts: 40,946	I think a good question, as a litmus test for the AL MVP, is this: Vlad's been hot - 22 for his last 51. Ohtani, ice cold. 6 for his last 50, 23 of those strikeouts. Has there been any movement in the MVP race?

09-07-2021, 06:01 PM	#12522
hammertime Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: OH->MI->MD->VA Posts: 6,674	I don't think Ohtani's BA matters as much as if he hits the nice round number milestones like 50 HRs, 100 RBIs, 30 SBs, 10 Ws, etc. Obviously if he bats 1000 the rest of the way then he's golden but if he winds up at .240 I don't think too many people will care if he achieves the other things I mentioned.