Any Buzz on 2027 Location?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Ohio guys, chill. Very few people are crapping on Cleveland and/or Ohio in general. I'm glad that you all know the secrets and ins-and-outs of how to navigate the National at the IX Center, however, if you step outside of your own understanding and be a bit more empathetic to those who are not from the area, you may be able to see the issues with having it in Cleveland.

I'm not from the area. I have never been to the IX before, and only been to Cleveland a couple times, all of which were short stays downtown for work.

I have no more knowledge of the area than you do. I simply got stuck in traffic once on Wednesday, saw there were two entrances (the signs where everyone was stuck in line point it out), and googled a better way in.

But that wasn't the point. I specifically responded to someone who said they actually took the back way in and used the west gate and it still took them considerabily longer. I'm interested in how that's possible given every single day there was zero wait for that gate if you came from the west.

[AwesomeBrian]

If you want a good laugh, check out Geoff's video about the future of the National. Dude seriously has no clue how it works

[sonnyday]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBrian

If you want a good laugh, check out Geoff's video about the future of the National. Dude seriously has no clue how it works

I ran into Geoff and saw a cringy moment on Thursday. This guy is douche.

I was looking at showcases and he was filming content. This was the back row near the ebay area. He was at a table filming content, and it was packed. I waited at the next table until he was done filming, and his crew of five people got out of the way.

Geoff then finishes filming and buys a card. Then, as he was walking away, he told the dealer where I was standing that he had bought a card from the other table. Like, dealers should be blessed that he spends money with them.

As Geoff continued to walk away, the dealer whose table I was at said, "What a moron", and I couldn't agree more. Definitely a show highlight for me.

[AwesomeBrian]

Originally Posted by sonnyday

I ran into Geoff and saw a cringy moment on Thursday. This guy is douche.

I was looking at showcases and filming content. This was the back row near the ebay area. He was at a table filming content, and it was packed. I waited at the next table until he was done filming, and his crew of five people got out of the way.

Geoff then finishes filming and buys a card. Then, as he was walking away, he told the dealer where I was standing that he had bought a card from the other table. Like, dealers should be blessed that he spends money with them.

As Geoff continued to walk away, the dealer whose table I was at said, "What a moron", and I couldn't agree more. Definitely a show highlight for me.

That's a feel good story. Guy has been around for a few years and thinks he knows everything. My buddy in Georgia went to a show where he was at last year. Geoff said for people to bring rare Acuna. My friend brought his Heritage Black Chrome RC PSA 10 and Geoff had no idea what it was. Dude is a major fraud

[Triple B]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBrian

That's a feel good story. Guy has been around for a few years and thinks he knows everything. My buddy in Georgia went to a show where he was at last year. Geoff said for people to bring rare Acuna. My friend brought his Heritage Black Chrome RC PSA 10 and Geoff had no idea what it was. Dude is a major fraud

The problem is that whereas people like me don't give a sh!t about influencers and all of these people that like filming "content", there's a whole section of people that want selfies and autographs from these clowns and it gives them credibility and a sense of celebrity. If some of you grown-ass adults wouldn't schoolgirl after guys like Geoff, there wouldn't be a reason to have to stand to the side while he films his content.

I was looking through a dealer's case when some goof came filming content and asked if I could move while he films. My response was a simple "when I'm done" and I stood there a little longer than I needed to. **** these bozos.

[AwesomeBrian]

Originally Posted by Triple B

The problem is that whereas people like me don't give a sh!t about influencers and all of these people that like filming "content", there's a whole section of people that want selfies and autographs from these clowns and it gives them credibility and a sense of celebrity. If some of you grown-ass adults wouldn't schoolgirl after guys like Geoff, there wouldn't be a reason to have to stand to the side while he films his content.

I was looking through a dealer's case when some goof came filming content and asked if I could move while he films. My response was a simple "when I'm done" and I stood there a little longer than I needed to. **** these bozos.

Yes! That's the kind of pushback that is needed. They don't own the show, their content is not unique from any of the other 100s of people filming there. I'm worried that the younger crowd is more into them than the adults though.

[packman80]

Seems this discussion takes place every year. The people living out west want the show out there but the major dealers are not putting the extra cost into traveling to the west coast. People on the East coast like it being closer to AC or Cleveland but they also lack certian things. Seems everyone likes Chicago as it's easy to fly to and get to the show. People are always going to complain but it's held in Chicago most of the time for a reason. So people need to stop complaining because the National is happy and it seems majority of the dealers are happy also so this is not going ot change. Will Fanatics perhaps hold smaller shows in different parts of the country? I think there is a good chance that can happen. But people need to keep asking the National to change when it's not going to happen.

[glassofwater]

why did the national book its show during the SDCC? i heard more about the SDCC then the national. seems dumb to compete with a bigger con.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by glassofwater

why did the national book its show during the SDCC? i heard more about the SDCC then the national. seems dumb to compete with a bigger con.

For the past few years, most companies have avoided SDCC. This year just happened to have massive MCU updates while Deadpool 3 has done insane numbers.

[Pacmeyer]

For those who suggested Las Vegas for a future site, you’re all crazy. I’m there now and it’s so hot just walking the short distance from monorail to convention hall that my eyeballs are getting singed.

[thepilluh]

You could put it at the Mandalay Bay convention center and you don't even have to go outside if you are staying at one of the 3 hotels that connect to that. There are several convention centers in vegas big enough for the national. There is the main LVCC one, but then Mandalay Bay, Venetian, and Caesars Forums have very large ones that could easily support it. And in Vegas, the AC works, unlike Chicago! Take Elon's loop instead of the Monorail. hardest part about vegas would be actually booking a venue. Those venues are booked annually for large conventions, even for the summer. The hackers are in town this week out there.

[Brobocop]

Dealers want convention attendees to spend money at the convention and nothing else. Vegas would not only be insanely expensive to book but your guests would spend money on gambling, food, entertainment as well as lodging and transportation. I don’t know why people refuse to understand that the cost to book these places is probably the number one reason why they don’t go outside of the few centers they go to.

Several of us keep repeating the same things but it’s just not registering with people.

[thepilluh]

You do realize that the National has been in Atlantic City several times. There is a casino about 1-2 miles from the Chicago show location. There is a Casino in Cleveland as well. Not sure I buy the spending concerns. Sports card in general is one big gamble every time you open a pack/box/case of cards.

[Triple B]

It should remain in Chicago indefinitely. TWO major international airports, a huge convention center, hotels galore around the convention center (and at all price points), easy accessibility to and from the hall, a mall with a huge food court nearby in case you want an escape from the show, great city with a great city life. Atlantic City and Cleveland can't compare.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Dealers want convention attendees to spend money at the convention and nothing else. Vegas would not only be insanely expensive to book but your guests would spend money on gambling, food, entertainment as well as lodging and transportation. I don’t know why people refuse to understand that the cost to book these places is probably the number one reason why they don’t go outside of the few centers they go to.

Several of us keep repeating the same things but it’s just not registering with people.

Every damn year too. As if the National Directors were reading these boards and were like, Timmy from Phoenix suggested Las Vegas. Why did we never think of that?!?!

If some place else made more sense for the promoters, general attendees, corporate sponsors and dealers. The show would be there. The fact that it isnt in any of these places, nor have most of these place come up in the dealer vote. Tells you all you need to know.

Originally Posted by thepilluh

You do realize that the National has been in Atlantic City several times. There is a casino about 1-2 miles from the Chicago show location. There is a Casino in Cleveland as well. Not sure I buy the spending concerns. Sports card in general is one big gamble every time you open a pack/box/case of cards.

You do understand that the City of AC subsidized the show, to bring it to town right? IE, they paid for the right to host it. As well as massive discounts on the event space. They used to do the same thing with flights into town from Chicago. Spirit Air got $75 a seat to fly there. No matter how many people were on the plane.

Just like the National itself, once the contract was up and no more subsidizing with free money. Spirit stopped flying there.

It was never in AC as the best choice. It was there since it was the best deal for the show. Collectors and dealers hated it, with many griping about the lack of money being spent.

You really cant compare a town who's main source of income is gambling in its 9 casinos. To cities that may have a single casino, within a 30 minute drive from the show.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by thepilluh

You do realize that the National has been in Atlantic City several times. There is a casino about 1-2 miles from the Chicago show location. There is a Casino in Cleveland as well. Not sure I buy the spending concerns. Sports card in general is one big gamble every time you open a pack/box/case of cards.

The only reason it was in Atlantic City was the National got the convention center for free as an incentive to bring it there.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by Grid

Every damn year too. As if the National Directors were reading these boards and were like, Timmy from Phoenix suggested Las Vegas. Why did we never think of that?!?!

If some place else made more sense for the promoters, general attendees, corporate sponsors and dealers. The show would be there. The fact that it isnt in any of these places, nor have most of these place come up in the dealer vote. Tells you all you need to know.



You do understand that the City of AC subsidized the show, to bring it to town right? IE, they paid for the right to host it. As well as massive discounts on the event space. They used to do the same thing with flights into town from Chicago. Spirit Air got $75 a seat to fly there. No matter how many people were on the plane.

Just like the National itself, once the contract was up and no more subsidizing with free money. Spirit stopped flying there.

It was never in AC as the best choice. It was there since it was the best deal for the show. Collectors and dealers hated it, with many griping about the lack of money being spent.

You really cant compare a town who's main source of income is gambling in its 9 casinos. To cities that may have a single casino, within a 30 minute drive from the show.

AC did that with a special New Jersey Transit train that ran from NYC to AC through Philly to bring in gamblers. As soon as they realized it wasn't brining in much traffic, they stopped subsidizing in and NJ Transit cancelled the service.,

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by thepilluh

You do realize that the National has been in Atlantic City several times. There is a casino about 1-2 miles from the Chicago show location. There is a Casino in Cleveland as well. Not sure I buy the spending concerns. Sports card in general is one big gamble every time you open a pack/box/case of cards.

The Cleveland casino is the same as Vegas. Absolutely

Cleveland also has a beach so that makes California irrelevant for the WC people

Can you recommend a few Vegas hotels that cost the same as what people paid in Cleveland? Especially when most people don’t even stay in Cleveland they stay in some cheaper suburb

Vegas would cost the average person a fortune compared to Cleveland… and that’s less spending at the show. I can’t speak for AC as I’ve never been

[tyrith]

Las Vegas in 2024 is not Las Vegas in 1994, or even 2014. Casino gaming is not the single revenue driver for the big resorts anymore. They've spent a lot of money making nice hotels, nice restaurants, and expensive shopping areas. And why that matters for the NSCC is that everything is way, way, waaaaaay more expensive than it used to be.

If they put the NSCC at some place like Mandalay Bay, the adjacent hotels are going to cost $1K/night. It's just not something that's going to work out well in terms of cost. Las Vegas is for big trade shows that are paid for by corporate money, or for people going to concerts/sports as part of a big vacation, not for small dollar, high volume events like a sports card show.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by tyrith

Las Vegas in 2024 is not Las Vegas in 1994, or even 2014. Casino gaming is not the single revenue driver for the big resorts anymore. They've spent a lot of money making nice hotels, nice restaurants, and expensive shopping areas. And why that matters for the NSCC is that everything is way, way, waaaaaay more expensive than it used to be.

If they put the NSCC at some place like Mandalay Bay, the adjacent hotels are going to cost $1K/night. It's just not something that's going to work out well in terms of cost. Las Vegas is for big trade shows that are paid for by corporate money, or for people going to concerts/sports as part of a big vacation, not for small dollar, high volume events like a sports card show.

This is correct

There is a huge difference between trade shows and conventions (especially a card convention where dealers want you to buy stuff personally)

Conventions don’t necessarily go to Vegas. Trade shows that are corporate do

I said that earlier in one of these threads. Haha

[thepilluh]

Newflash, Vegas has suburbs too with hotels as well. it's not just the strip. I paid about $150 a night in Cleveland, I can find the same thing in Vegas both on and off the strip. Maybe not at the Venetian, but it is doable. Even better, I can find chepear hotels in Vegas then Chicago. Chicago is usually $200+ a night depending on your standards.

My point of bringing up that every city the National goes to now has casinos was to debunk the theory that dealers don't want people to spend money on anything but the show. People have options in every city.

The national was in AC 4 times (at least). not sure all those times were subsidized. Though I will say I hope it never goes there again and that is the location most drivable from me!

[thepilluh]

Originally Posted by tyrith

If they put the NSCC at some place like Mandalay Bay, the adjacent hotels are going to cost $1K/night. It's just not something that's going to work out well in terms of cost. Las Vegas is for big trade shows that are paid for by corporate money, or for people going to concerts/sports as part of a big vacation, not for small dollar, high volume events like a sports card show.

Rooms F1 weekend and even Super bowl weekend this were not $1K/night. I booked a room for Wrestlemania next year, not $1k/night at a strip hotel directly across the street from the Stadium.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by thepilluh

Newflash, Vegas has suburbs too with hotels as well. it's not just the strip. I paid about $150 a night in Cleveland, I can find the same thing in Vegas both on and off the strip. Maybe not at the Venetian, but it is doable. Even better, I can find chepear hotels in Vegas then Chicago. Chicago is usually $200+ a night depending on your standards.

My point of bringing up that every city the National goes to now has casinos was to debunk the theory that dealers don't want people to spend money on anything but the show. People have options in every city.

The national was in AC 4 times (at least). not sure all those times were subsidized. Though I will say I hope it never goes there again and that is the location most drivable from me!

No one wants to go to Vegas and stay off the strip. That’s the point

You’re missing the forest for the trees

[tyrith]

Originally Posted by asujbl

No one wants to go to Vegas and stay off the strip. That’s the point

You’re missing the forest for the trees

Also, want to talk about traffic snarls, getting on/off the Strip on a normal day is already obnoxious.

I completely understand the attraction of the concept of LV for people that are looking to relieve some of the problems the NSCC has had the last couple of years, but I just don't see Vegas as being the solution. No one can drive there, it's expensive, it's incredibly hot during the time of the year the show would be there, and it's really far away from the geographic territory the National has occupied for a long time.

If the National, or a show like the National, is going to happen in LV, there needs to be some proof of concept first. Host a show that occupies 50-100K sq feet (think Dallas Card Show size) before sending one that occupies 500K a thousand miles outside of its normal geographic zone. The last time it was tried, it sounds like it didn't go well - having a successful show there would be the starting point to changing minds.

[OhioLawyerF5]

The national is nothing like a trade show that does well in Vegas.

People tend to misunderstand what makes a successful national.

Dealers want a cheap location, that's easy to travel to and get their inventory there. They want a lot of patrons who are spending money.

Attendees want a card show with lots of cards. They want it to be cheap to get there, cheap to stay there, and cheap to get in.

Both of these positions align with one another.

Talk to dealers from this year's show. They were thrilled. Lots of people buying lots of cards.

All the rest of the logistics is just noise.

Face it, more people can get to cleveland and chicago than other locations, and they can do so cheaply. Most attendees of the national are not flying in, contrary to popular perception. Most foot traffic at the national are people who drove there. Most dealers either drive there, or have their inventory driven there. There is a reason these shows have landed east of the Mississippi lately. It's where the most people will go for cheap to spend money on cards. And that's literally the only concern. Fixing the "problems" from cleveland or chicago isn't even on the radar of important concerns to those putting on the show.