Any Kareem Abdul-Jabbar line horror stories?

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by packman80

Would I have a issue if he would be like many players and have a tiered pricing depending on item he signed and it was starting high like $1k for flats and then going up? Nope not at all. But I do have a issue were he has a tiered pricing and it's up to his handler to decide what that price will be even if it is a card and that two people get charged different prices.

what is the issue with kaj choosing how much he is charging for each specific item? no one is forcing people to pay the price. if it is too high at the table, then take your card home with no auto.

easy.

it is not kaj's job to leave meat on the bone for flippers to make a profit.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rats60

Well pretty much every other athlete does it different, so yes people would do it differently. Who else has their handler grade the card and then charge you based on what the handler grades your card at?

you may be surprised how quickly this catches on. remember, 40 years ago, there was no tiered pricing structure. everything changes. if you dont like his policy, dont purchase an auto

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by Grid

99% of athletes dont know all that much about their value on various things, on the secondary market. But their agent, handler or show promoter certainly does. And they are the ones that set pricing.

Which is why its common to see certain guys charge more, to sign their rookie cards VS other cards.

But to set pricing based on the condition of said cards? GTF outta here. Only one player is pulling that BS. And rightfully taking the backlash from it.

which is worth more: a kaj rookie PSA 8 with a 10 auto or a PSA 3 with a 10 auto? why should kaj walk away from that upsale? the flipper that gets the card signed surely wont.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

what is the issue with kaj choosing how much he is charging for each specific item? no one is forcing people to pay the price. if it is too high at the table, then take your card home with no auto.

easy.

it is not kaj's job to leave meat on the bone for flippers to make a profit.

Yeah I had some work quoted out for my kitchen, about $15k worth. Once the contractors figured out that my house would sell for $30k more thanks to that work, they upcharged me another $10k. Can't leave meat on the bone for me to make a profit.

I also very much enjoy paying for something ahead of time, then being told I have to pay more once I get there. Especially if I had to pay money to gain entrance to the place first.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by jplarson

Yeah I had some work quoted out for my kitchen, about $15k worth. Once the contractors figured out that my house would sell for $30k more thanks to that work, they upcharged me another $10k. Can't leave meat on the bone for me to make a profit.

I also very much enjoy paying for something ahead of time, then being told I have to pay more once I get there. Especially if I had to pay money to gain entrance to the place first.

This guy gets it.

Be upfront (and honest) with pricing. It's pretty simple.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

which is worth more: a kaj rookie PSA 8 with a 10 auto or a PSA 3 with a 10 auto? why should kaj walk away from that upsale? the flipper that gets the card signed surely wont.

What is worth more a PSA 8 KAJ RC or a PSA 3 KAJ RC? Why should KAJ get a piece of what you buy his card for?

This issue is people paid his advertised price for his auto and then when they arrived they were asked for more money. A card graded PSA 6 was graded an 8 by his handler so KAJ could extort more money out of his auto. That is just dishonest.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

what is the issue with kaj choosing how much he is charging for each specific item? no one is forcing people to pay the price. if it is too high at the table, then take your card home with no auto.

easy.

it is not kaj's job to leave meat on the bone for flippers to make a profit.

It's called upfront pricing. Pretty much 99.99% of people signing do it.

But it's ok if you are down with Kareem and his handler being greedy and screwing people over deciding they can change prices to whatever they want them to be.

[bigdog2003]

Can his handler get hired by PSA and become the person I submit all orders to? I have some lower grade vintage I would love to get slabbed 8's, 9's, and 10's

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

what is the issue with kaj choosing how much he is charging for each specific item? no one is forcing people to pay the price. if it is too high at the table, then take your card home with no auto.

easy.

it is not kaj's job to leave meat on the bone for flippers to make a profit.

You misunderstood.

He's charging for the condition of the item based on his own personal rep's opinion -- not for different items like every other athlete.

Feel free to follow along.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

You misunderstood.

He's charging for the condition of the item based on his own personal rep's opinion -- not for different items like every other athlete.

Feel free to follow along.

no, I fully understand. He is charging a stepped rate based on his reps evaluation of the condition of each rookie. What is the problem? dont want to pay, dont have him sign.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by packman80

It's called upfront pricing. Pretty much 99.99% of people signing do it.

But it's ok if you are down with Kareem and his handler being greedy and screwing people over deciding they can change prices to whatever they want them to be.

How is anyone getting screwed? The signage at the event was very clear as to how his signing would be conducted.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

no, I fully understand. He is charging a stepped rate based on his reps evaluation of the condition of each rookie. What is the problem? dont want to pay, dont have him sign.

The problem is that wasn't advertised when the autograph tickets were sold. It was sprung on collectors at the show. A lot of people did get refunds and it makes KAJ look like a jerk.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rats60

What is worth more a PSA 8 KAJ RC or a PSA 3 KAJ RC? Why should KAJ get a piece of what you buy his card for?

This issue is people paid his advertised price for his auto and then when they arrived they were asked for more money. A card graded PSA 6 was graded an 8 by his handler so KAJ could extort more money out of his auto. That is just dishonest.

This is so simple. A PSA 7 rookie signed by KAJ is worth significantly more than a PSA 7 that is not signed. his signature is bumping that value significantly. why should he not capitalize on that instant bump in value? would you not?

to the second point, there was signage posted as to how the signing would go. If you did not like the upcharge, you could easily get a refund from tri star and not get your item signed.

this is very very similar to how PSA works. this will become much more common in the autograph game i would imagine.

[daveyc1]

Originally Posted by rats60

The problem is that wasn't advertised when the autograph tickets were sold. It was sprung on collectors at the show. A lot of people did get refunds and it makes KAJ look like a jerk.

perhaps the promoter got it wrong? I dont know if KAJ's people neglected to tell tri star or if they dropped the ball. who knows. It is very clear on his website. I do not see a problem with an older athlete getting what he can get for his auto. I would imagine most people who are paying thousands to have a premium item signed are going to be planning on flipping it and are upset because that business model seems to be heading down the toilet.

[mizzoujohn]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

what is the issue with kaj choosing how much he is charging for each specific item? no one is forcing people to pay the price. if it is too high at the table, then take your card home with no auto.

easy.

it is not kaj's job to leave meat on the bone for flippers to make a profit.

I think the issue is the handler thinking she knows more than PSA…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

perhaps the promoter got it wrong? I dont know if KAJ's people neglected to tell tri star or if they dropped the ball. who knows. It is very clear on his website. I do not see a problem with an older athlete getting what he can get for his auto. I would imagine most people who are paying thousands to have a premium item signed are going to be planning on flipping it and are upset because that business model seems to be heading down the toilet.

Kareem's website has zero mention that Kareem's rep will double check the grading of the card and the rep will have final say on what the actual grade is, regardless of PSA grade (which is what was going on at the National).

I also don't recall any mention on the TriStar or National website that Kareem's pricing would match his website.

Charge what you want, but just be upfront about it. If the card is graded a PSA 4, don't charge PSA 8 prices just because some old lady says so.

[ReggieBush22]

Originally Posted by Grid

Nearly every site list his net worth as $25-$30MIL. F-U money? No. Needs to insult and rob fans for money? Also no.

If anything, he could have signed more autos, sold more tickets and made more money at the National. If his girlfriend didn't pull these shenanigans. TriStar basically had a KAJ refund line they had to open, for a bunch of people that didn't pay the extorted prices, or those who simply left the line since it wasn't moving due to this.

I doubt he has $25 mil in the bank. But say even if he does, for the consensus 2nd GOAT of the second most popular sport in America, that's a major failure. His teammate Magic is worth hundreds of mils. Like i said, living in Los Angeles most of my life, anytime he came on media, it was ONLY to sell something. I'm not judging but when you ONLY come on a show to sell stuff, you are desparate IMO. Fact is, he was terrible at selling himself. A guy of his caliber should be worth $50+ mil at minimum.

[sonnyday]

I would hire Deborah. Seriously....she is a bulldog, that chases top-line sales.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

I doubt he has $25 mil in the bank. But say even if he does, for the consensus 2nd GOAT of the second most popular sport in America, that's a major failure. His teammate Magic is worth hundreds of mils. Like i said, living in Los Angeles most of my life, anytime he came on media, it was ONLY to sell something. I'm not judging but when you ONLY come on a show to sell stuff, you are desparate IMO. Fact is, he was terrible at selling himself. A guy of his caliber should be worth $50+ mil at minimum.

Magic>Kareem. Kareem would have 1 ring without Magic. Magic won back to back championships with an over the hill Kareem as the 3rd/4th best player. Magic had the Lakers back in the Finals after Kareem retired with his 2nd and 3rd best players struggling with injuries. Magic was ready to win more championships when he was forced out of the NBA by players scared of HIV.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by rats60

Magic>Kareem. Kareem would have 1 ring without Magic. Magic won back to back championships with an over the hill Kareem as the 3rd/4th best player. Magic had the Lakers back in the Finals after Kareem retired with his 2nd and 3rd best players struggling with injuries. Magic was ready to win more championships when he was forced out of the NBA by players scared of HIV.

Underrated comment here although I will disagree with Magic winning more rings after '91. MJ and the Bulls were ready to take over and no one was getting in their way.

A lot of times when guys win rings, we just assume the magnitude/contribution towards of each ring is the same.

Kobe won 5 rings, but his role on the team for those first 3 was very different than the other 2.

MJ, Russell, Bird, LeBron were all the main guys on their teams for all their chips.

Duncan, Kobe, Curry, even Shaquille weren't all the #1 alphas on every single championship team they played on, which is fine. It's a team sport and winning a championship is still incredibly difficult. But sometimes we as the debating public are too lazy when we argue.

Anyway, agree with the Kareem assessment.

[cfern023]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

no, I fully understand. He is charging a stepped rate based on his reps evaluation of the condition of each rookie. What is the problem? dont want to pay, dont have him sign.

I mean, when the rep is using terms like "This is a PSA 8, IDK why PSA gave it a PSA 6, the upcharges is $2k more..." its pretty obvious your getting ripped off.

Someone cracked a PSA 6 in front of her and she argued it should be on the higher pay scale and a PSA 8 and demanded more money.

She can't claim she is the judge and jury on grades, then use other companies grading scales for pricing... then ignore those very same companies grading scales.

[cfern023]

Originally Posted by mizzoujohn

I think the issue is the handler thinking she knows more than PSA…


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And ignoring PSA's already graded score and saying its actually a PSA 8 , when there is literal evidence they graded it a 6.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

what is the issue with kaj choosing how much he is charging for each specific item? no one is forcing people to pay the price. if it is too high at the table, then take your card home with no auto.

easy.

it is not kaj's job to leave meat on the bone for flippers to make a profit.

Because you don't know how much you are going to pay, until you wait hours in line until his handler gives her opinion. And that is after you already paid for the ticket, but are still at the mercy of the handlers opinion on what she deems the grade to be.

Then, its either you leave the line, after wasting all that time. And go wait in another line for your refund. Or you pay the extortion money on the up charge right then and now after she alone assigns your cards grade.

It really sucked for those who cracked out his RC from slabs. If the handler disagreed on the grade PSA, SGC or BAS already gave the card. And she thinks it was undergraded. You either pony up the cash to get it signed. Or be stuck having to pay to get that card re-graded again.

Originally Posted by daveyc1

which is worth more: a kaj rookie PSA 8 with a 10 auto or a PSA 3 with a 10 auto? why should kaj walk away from that upsale? the flipper that gets the card signed surely wont.

I have already posted this in here. So I will copy and paste my work for you.

He is paid to sign my item, not share in any potential profits. It makes zero difference to him, if he is signing a blank piece of paper or a gem mint RC. Either take 5 seconds of his time.

Who says anyone is allowed to share in any potential gains or losses on items getting signed? Since the advent of paid signings, it cost one amount to sign small flats, and more to sign larger things.

Jerseys, helmets, larger photos took more time to do. And that is more of the signers time you are using. And thus, it costs more for the promoter who typically pays the player by their time.

If you want inscriptions, that costs more since it takes more time. People understand these up sells.

Would KAJ charge me less, if I had him sign a cheap Walmart replica basketball VS an authentic model? The Walmart ball is worth less money after being signed than the game ball. No. The price to sign a ball, is the price to sign a ball.

People aren't mad that they have to pay more for different things. People are mad that they have to pay more, for the same things.

[jstephens24]

since Magic got in here he is 1000 for a RC no matter the grade. 99 on any other card

[sonnyday]

Originally Posted by Grid

Because you don't know how much you are going to pay, until you wait hours in line until his handler gives her opinion. And that is after you already paid for the ticket, but are still at the mercy of the handlers opinion on what she deems the grade to be.

Then, its either you leave the line, after wasting all that time. And go wait in another line for your refund. Or you pay the extortion money on the up charge right then and now after she alone assigns your cards grade.

It really sucked for those who cracked out his RC from slabs. If the handler disagreed on the grade PSA, SGC or BAS already gave the card. And she thinks it was undergraded. You either pony up the cash to get it signed. Or be stuck having to pay to get that card re-graded again.



I have already posted this in here. So I will copy and paste my work for you.

He is paid to sign my item, not share in any potential profits. It makes zero difference to him, if he is signing a blank piece of paper or a gem mint RC. Either take 5 seconds of his time.

Who says anyone is allowed to share in any potential gains or losses on items getting signed? Since the advent of paid signings, it cost one amount to sign small flats, and more to sign larger things.

Jerseys, helmets, larger photos took more time to do. And that is more of the signers time you are using. And thus, it costs more for the promoter who typically pays the player by their time.

If you want inscriptions, that costs more since it takes more time. People understand these up sells.

Would KAJ charge me less, if I had him sign a cheap Walmart replica basketball VS an authentic model? The Walmart ball is worth less money after being signed than the game ball. No. The price to sign a ball, is the price to sign a ball.

People aren't mad that they have to pay more for different things. People are mad that they have to pay more, for the same things.

PSA Charges more based on the value of the card....why should KAJ be held to a different standard? It's free market capitalism.

Who says anyone is allowed to share in the profits? I guess KAJ does.