Those who went thru dotdom crash and 2008 crash, how much did hobby get affected?

[k13]

Originally Posted by threefromthetee

I’m literally laughing at the guys saying Jordan would sign for a couple mil. He turned down $100 million for a 2-hour appearance (Google it if you don’t believe me). He’ll never sign again like he did years ago. Wouldn’t be surprised if he has an out clause in his contract if UD is sold. Keep dreaming of MJ auto cards flooding the market. It ain’t happening.

Messi/Ronaldo still sign for a couple hundred dollars and they are more popular than Jordan.

[k13]

Jordan has autos every year in Goodwin and other products so he's still signing.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

Can't be the greatest of anything if it's more than one player in a sport.

I was giving deference to both sides of the Lebron vs Jordan GOAT debate. But in regards to hobby status, I think both can hold equal market value and significance.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

That is a crazy stat. Just shows how uninformed the new entrants were.

But should you blame them or the market influencers who promoted it? If the behavior results in a slab market crash, maybe it would have been better off for the industry long term if there had been less hype and less money being made during the height of the bubble and more education being given to new entrants.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

But should you blame them or the market influencers who promoted it? If the behavior results in a slab market crash, maybe it would have been better off for the industry long term if there had been less hype and less money being made during the height of the bubble and more education being given to new entrants.

Interesting point - I would say the blame falls on both groups. But when making an investment decision, it is ultimately your responsibility to know the potential risk involved.

And we live in the age of information. The good information can be hard to find, but is out there.

I do find it funny that all the new users basically slabbed everything. I have only subbed 2 cards before, and I would say that graded cards are only like 5%-10% of my business.

And when cards are graded the stakes are higher. IE paying the premium for a psa 10 vs a raw copy. Or even the pure costs involved with sending hundreds of cards to psa. So some people were definitely misled in a big way.

Unfortunate as we are all paying the price now because of it.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I was giving deference to both sides of the Lebron vs Jordan GOAT debate. But in regards to hobby status, I think both can hold equal market value and significance.

There's no debate. Lebron isn't even close enough to warrant a true debate.

[threefromthetee]

Originally Posted by k13

Jordan has autos every year in Goodwin and other products so he's still signing.

I never said he wasn’t still signing. I’m saying he won’t sign again if Fanatics buys UD.

[threefromthetee]

Originally Posted by k13

Messi/Ronaldo still sign for a couple hundred dollars and they are more popular than Jordan.

And this is a stupid comparison. MJ is in another stratosphere. With the Jordan brand he doesn’t need the cash. I’m pretty sure Messi and Ronaldo would make a 2-hour appearance for $100m. Jordan didn’t. They aren’t the same guy, but keep telling yourself that, buddy.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by SearchPatrol

He cares about money.

I'm thinking if Fanatics offered him a Million dollars for 2 hours of work. He might think about it. Market is down, inflation is up. How much do you think it cost Jordan to fill up his planes and cars for a year? Get that covered in 2 hours of work.

This bish is still gonna sell out his sneakers, even in a recession.

All MJ cares about is fast cars, vajayjay, and cigars

[SearchPatrol]

Originally Posted by threefromthetee

And this is a stupid comparison. MJ is in another stratosphere. With the Jordan brand he doesn’t need the cash. I’m pretty sure Messi and Ronaldo would make a 2-hour appearance for $100m. Jordan didn’t. They aren’t the same guy, but keep telling yourself that, buddy.

I love it. You make it sound like all he had to do was show up for a few hours when in fact.

And all he had to do was, other than giving his name and likeness,

Yes - not even Close to the same thing. Signing 1000 cards or giving somebody the rights to your name and likeness.

Be better than this.

And yes, I should have never used flooding.

But I could see a special set limited to 500 with a guaranteed auto and an additional 500 in certain products.

[2010GBPackers]

I know it's not UD, but could you imagine a Prizm gold Jordan /10?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

There's no debate. Lebron isn't even close enough to warrant a true debate.

In terms of ability and accomplishments, LeBron is close with Jordan.

Lebron: 10 finals appearances; 4 championships; 4 MVPs

Jordan 6 finals appearances; 6 championships; 5 MVPS; 1 DPofY

Jordan was great on defense, unlike LeBron. But Lebron carried teams to the finals -- 2006 and 2017 Cavs. Jordan needed Pipen to finally reach the finals.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

In terms of ability and accomplishments, LeBron is close with Jordan.

Lebron: 10 finals appearances; 4 championships; 4 MVPs

Jordan 6 finals appearances; 6 championships; 5 MVPS; 1 DPofY

Jordan was great on defense, unlike LeBron. But Lebron carried teams to the finals -- 2006 and 2017 Cavs. Jordan needed Pipen to finally reach the finals.

I wouldn't count getting to the finals as an accomplishment, at least not important enough to make a difference. Years later, do most fans remember how many final appearance does so and so superstar make? Lebron played longer and bounce around teams to give him better chances of winning titles, and yet he's still 2 titles short of MJ and various other players. Also, if you mention MVP, might as well include finals MVP.

[hermanotarjeta]

Will...not...turn........this.........into......a........Lebron.......v........Jordan.....thread.........LEFLOP!

Ok, that's all I'll say.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by k13

Messi still sign for a couple hundred dollars and they are more popular than Jordan.

Meh. I appreciate ya'll Canucks opinions fr fr...




but I'mma have to rock with knowledgeable Chessmaster from Quora on this one.

[threefromthetee]

Originally Posted by SearchPatrol

I love it. You make it sound like all he had to do was show up for a few hours when in fact.

And all he had to do was, other than giving his name and likeness,

Yes - not even Close to the same thing. Signing 1000 cards or giving somebody the rights to your name and likeness.

Be better than this.

And yes, I should have never used flooding.

But I could see a special set limited to 500 with a guaranteed auto and an additional 500 in certain products.

MJ isn’t signing again if UD is sold. I’d be willing to put money on this. There’s literally no good reason for him to keep signing at that point.

[h00perstar34]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I dont think the dotcom crash had any impact. The sports card market had already crashed in the mid 90s.

The dotcom crash coincided with the rise of ecommerce and eBay. It also coincided with the rise of card grading. People could conveniently buy rare graded cards on eBay. LCS's were also more common place than they are now.

In terms of NBA cards, I think there was a lull in between Jordan retiring and Lebron entering the league. Guys like Kobe had already been in the league for multiple years. The biggest new name was Duncan.

What lull you speak of? Jordan retired in 03 and lebron entered in 03. Kobe only played 1 year longer than Duncan, the new names were Yao and Amare. JRich also had love back then.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by GOATMJ

Yes he signs but VERY little. Hardly the amount that "floods" the market. And none are licensed obviously.

Because Jordan is a smart business man he will sign but he won't over sign to were the market gets flooded and his value goes down. Sign a little so his prices stay up and he can get a lot to do a signing.

You see some HOF'ers who are signing multiple times a year the market is flooded with their sigs so badly that it's cheaper to go on ebay to buy a signed item them get them to sign anything.

[k13]

Originally Posted by threefromthetee

And this is a stupid comparison. MJ is in another stratosphere. With the Jordan brand he doesn’t need the cash. I’m pretty sure Messi and Ronaldo would make a 2-hour appearance for $100m. Jordan didn’t. They aren’t the same guy, but keep telling yourself that, buddy.

Ronaldo has the most Instagram followers in the world.
Jordan is being slowly forgotten about.

They aren't the same guy...Ronaldo is 10x more popular.

I don't care for any of them just the way it is.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by k13

Ronaldo has the most Instagram followers in the world.
Jordan is being slowly forgotten about.

They aren't the same guy...Ronaldo is 10x more popular.

I don't care for any of them just the way it is.

Half of those 10m are fake/bots.

Soccer is huge in europe and 3rd world countries.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by h00perstar34

What lull you speak of? Jordan retired in 03 and lebron entered in 03. Kobe only played 1 year longer than Duncan, the new names were Yao and Amare. JRich also had love back then.

Jordan retired after winning his last championship with the Bulls in 98. He unretired to play for the Wizards in the 2001-02 season. The Dot-com crash occurred in March of 2000 -- Jordan had been retired for a while at that point and for one more year after.

I said Duncan was the "newest" star. He was drafted after Kobe and won his first championship in his second season in 99 -- before Kobe's first championship in mid-2000. I remember Duncan's rookie card being a big deal at the time.

Yao was a big name in China and a phenomenon in America. He debuted in the 2002-03 season.

[h00perstar34]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Jordan retired after winning his last championship with the Bulls in 98. He unretired to play for the Wizards in the 2001-02 season. The Dot-com crash occurred in March of 2000 -- Jordan had been retired for a while at that point and for one more year after.

I said Duncan was the "newest" star. He was drafted after Kobe and won his first championship in his second season in 99 -- before Kobe's first championship in mid-2000. I remember Duncan's rookie card being a big deal at the time.

Yao was a big name in China and a phenomenon in America. He debuted in the 2002-03 season.

Duncan never really lit the hobby up but Carter, Tmac Francis did in those in between years. Even Dmiles cards were insanely priced in 2000


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

I wouldn't count getting to the finals as an accomplishment, at least not important enough to make a difference. Years later, do most fans remember how many final appearance does so and so superstar make? Lebron played longer and bounce around teams to give him better chances of winning titles, and yet he's still 2 titles short of MJ and various other players. Also, if you mention MVP, might as well include finals MVP.

People remember those Jazz teams with Stockton and Malone getting to the finals. They remember the Sonics team with Kemp and Payton getting to the finals. They remember the Blazers with Clyde Drexler getting to the finals. People remember OKC with Durant, Westbrook and Harden getting to the finals. Those teams were iconic.

I think the conference finals is more of what you mean -- those players and teams are easily forgotten.

The LeBron vs Jordan debate is not unlike the Brady vs Montana debate. Like LeBron, Brady has had a much longer career than his GOAT predecessor. And like Jordan, Montana was undefeated in championships.

The truth is you can't compare players from different eras. And those who came before paved the way for those who came after.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by h00perstar34

Duncan never really lit the hobby up but Carter, Tmac Francis did in those in between years. Even Dmiles cards were insanely priced in 2000


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Duncan didn't have the flash that guys like Carter had. Duncan just produced year after year and did what was needed to win championships. I imitated his turnaround mid-range jumper in high school -- good times.

[SearchPatrol]

Originally Posted by threefromthetee

MJ isn’t signing again if UD is sold. I’d be willing to put money on this. There’s literally no good reason for him to keep signing at that point.

What do you mean " No good reason for him to keep signing"???

TO GET PAID !!! To make millions

Why should he care about the secondary market? If he can get paid, sign away. While others sell his auto for up to $200,000. I'm sure, Jordan wants his share of that market. He's a business man, he cares about money.