Which one is more likely the next PMG?

[ragingbull]

2012 Prizm Gold /10
2012 Flawless Base Diamonds /20 /5 and 1/1
2015 Revolution Galactics /15

[h00perstar34]

Originally Posted by dengbang

90s insert market is different because there are actual collectors at every price point. Some of us are waiting for the cards to become more attainable so even if the price comes down there will be sales.


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Bingo

Way more people in the market now are flippers, vs 90s inserts, was an era of pure collectors.

I’m priced out of a ton of stuff I want as well, I highly doubt any rare/coveted basketball inserts from 96-04 will ever plummet. More than likely they’ll appreciate in the long run.

[dengbang]

Originally Posted by h00perstar34

Bingo



Way more people in the market now are flippers, vs 90s inserts, was an era of pure collectors.



I’m priced out of a ton of stuff I want as well, I highly doubt any rare/coveted basketball inserts from 96-04 will ever plummet. More than likely they’ll appreciate in the long run.

Yea I've never seen so many flippers in my life, but I'm not complaining. Keeps the hobby going for sure. I enjoy seeing the younger generation going around trading and buying cards much like how we used to do with our trapper keepers, I mean binders.

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[mjordandagoat]

PMG from 1997 is untouchable like many chimed in already.

even the star rubies/playmaker's theatre/essential credentials are 2nd tier.

I doubt we see another PMGish era in the coming decades.

[tjforce]

It's really hard to see these things while they are happening.

People didn't even realize that PMG's were going to be what they are today back when they first came out. Other we all would have found ways to load up on them.

PMG's will likely always be at the top of the parallel/insert game. I doubt Panini or Fanatics will be able to do anything to top them in terms of collectability. In terms of price, there are ways to top the Reds through important sets like 2012 Prizm Gold, but that's also a function of a much lower print run. Greens.... Untouchable.

That being said, there will still be sought after Panini inserts/parallels down the road. Much of it driven by the fact the for guys like LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Durant... and possibly Luka, very important chunks of their careers happened during the Panini era, and it resulted in the best inserts and parallels (non-autos for LeBron), that these guys had released. The 90s might be king for non-auto inserts, the the 00's were pretty weak compared to the 10's.

[1800gambler]

Not that I think they’ll catch on and be expensive like PMGs but the Elite parallels from last year give me PMG vibes. I love the look of them. The plain single color foil background.I grabbed a couple Franz parallels (orange /210, blue /99, purple /49) because I’m a Michigan fan. Im still looking for the gold /10 if anyone has one!

I pulled a Kuminga Bronze fotl /17 on release day that panini butchered the top cut on and made the mistake of sending to panini for factory damage and never heard anything further. Shoulda sold it as it was… meh oh well.

[jzx1103]

There isn't another PMG cause vast majority of folks who are currently into Ultra modern stuff are in it for flipping. I rarely see folks who buys Ultra Modern stuff actually appreciate the cards themselves. That was not the case with PMGs. Back then folks actually collected, even today, vast majority of folks paying top dollars for PMGs are doing so to add to their collection, not to flip it in 6 months.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by jzx1103

There isn't another PMG cause vast majority of folks who are currently into Ultra modern stuff are in it for flipping. I rarely see folks who buys Ultra Modern stuff actually appreciate the cards themselves. That was not the case with PMGs. Back then folks actually collected, even today, vast majority of folks paying top dollars for PMGs are doing so to add to their collection, not to flip it in 6 months.

When was the last time you saw a 2012 Prizm Gold LeBron for sale?

How many LeBron/Kobe 2015 Galactics are they available right now?

Are you able to track down and obtain a single 2018 Prizm Nebula 1/1 of any all star player for a reasonable price?

What about the encased Golds /5 that came out in 2020 of the top guys.

These are definitely a few of the card being appreciated and hoarded by collectors, and I could give you a list of instagram accounts who are holding them. It's not going to be Geoff Wilson, CardCollector2, of any other jabroni's that Fanatics is putting on cards these days.

[jzx1103]

Originally Posted by tjforce

When was the last time you saw a 2012 Prizm Gold LeBron for sale?

How many LeBron/Kobe 2015 Galactics are they available right now?

Are you able to track down and obtain a single 2018 Prizm Nebula 1/1 of any all star player for a reasonable price?

What about the encased Golds /5 that came out in 2020 of the top guys.

These are definitely a few of the card being appreciated and hoarded by collectors, and I could give you a list of instagram accounts who are holding them. It's not going to be Geoff Wilson, CardCollector2, of any other jabroni's that Fanatics is putting on cards these days.

The cards you mentioned are 1/1s or #ed to 10, PMGs are #ed to 100. Do you honestly see any ultra modern sets with 100 copies still worth a tons of money 20 years from now. Especially with Panini pumping out the same sets and parallels over and over and over. Btw the 2012 Prizm golds are already close to 97 PMG prices, there isn't much of a upside.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by jzx1103

The cards you mentioned are 1/1s or #ed to 10, PMGs are #ed to 100. Do you honestly see any ultra modern sets with 100 copies still worth a tons of money 20 years from now. Especially with Panini pumping out the same sets and parallels over and over and over. Btw the 2012 Prizm golds are already close to 97 PMG prices, there isn't much of a upside.

You’re moving the goal posts: I just mentioned a few comments ago that to reach the values of the Pmg Reds cards like Prizm Golds had to be way less printed.

Of course /100 doesnt mean as much when every release has multiple parallels lower than that.

But it doesn’t change my point that key rare and desirable cards of top players are drying up into the hands a serious collectors.


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[sebreg]

Newer items I think will often have higher rate of speculation since they haven't had the benefit of time to slowly develop solid collector bases like older items have. I imagine that as the key modern panini sets age they will develop more solid collector bases organically.

In the 90s as kids we were flipping cards back and forth to one another like crazy, at least my friend group was, so as far as I can remember collecting cards there always was a lot of action especially with newer issues.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by sebreg

Newer items I think will often have higher rate of speculation since they haven't had the benefit of time to slowly develop solid collector bases like older items have. I imagine that as the key modern panini sets age they will develop more solid collector bases organically.

In the 90s as kids we were flipping cards back and forth to one another like crazy, at least my friend group was, so as far as I can remember collecting cards there always was a lot of action especially with newer issues.

Right on.

And over time the majority of the stuff falls off the wagon, while other stuff becomes the iconic chase.

Nobody talks about Collector's Choice Gold signatures of Shawn Kemp anymore, Fleer Ultra Power in the Key of Chris Webber,or Stadium Club Beam Teams of Penny Hardaway. But those cards were hot back in the day.

There's not going to be another PMG just like there won't be another 03 Exquisite LeBron, or 86 Fleer Jordan (Sorry Luka fans, your 2018 Prizm base doesn't make the cut), or 2012 LeBron Gold Prizm. Each era has it's different qualities and over time, key items in these eras become very collectable.

[mvp]

Relevant to this conversation - Some people on the sports side might not be aware, but Upper Deck tracked down the original design team that did the basketball PMGs in the 90s to do the PMGs in Spider-Man Metal Universe last year. They brought back the original specs in terms of colours, manufacturing techniques, numbering scheme etc.

Who knows where that pops up again in the future...

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Right on.

And over time the majority of the stuff falls off the wagon, while other stuff becomes the iconic chase.

Nobody talks about Collector's Choice Gold signatures of Shawn Kemp anymore, Fleer Ultra Power in the Key of Chris Webber,or Stadium Club Beam Teams of Penny Hardaway. But those cards were hot back in the day.

There's not going to be another PMG just like there won't be another 03 Exquisite LeBron, or 86 Fleer Jordan (Sorry Luka fans, your 2018 Prizm base doesn't make the cut), or 2012 LeBron Gold Prizm. Each era has it's different qualities and over time, key items in these eras become very collectable.

100%.

97 PMGs are the ones everyone chases and there was only 1 year of that and it was an original idea at the time. /100 with the first 10 green and the other 90 red? Brilliant!

Panini could have done something similar with Color Blasts. Make 50 with the first 5 black background and the other 45 white background. And just do it for one year. Or once every 20 years so every key player gets 1 Color Blast over their playing career.

That would have been amazing but instead, Panini tries to pump out the same/very similar stuff once they find something that's popular. I get why they do it, but they don't have to do it to every single insert. Wanna do Net Marvels and Crunch Time every year? Go for it. Golds /10 are a staple as they should be. But some stuff is best if they just do one magical run.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Asian62150

100%.

97 PMGs are the ones everyone chases and there was only 1 year of that and it was an original idea at the time. /100 with the first 10 green and the other 90 red? Brilliant!

Panini could have done something similar with Color Blasts. Make 50 with the first 5 black background and the other 45 white background. And just do it for one year. Or once every 20 years so every key player gets 1 Color Blast over their playing career.

Inserts vs parallels. Two completely different releases. Also, there was more than one PMG parallel set, but of course they were all different in some way.

[dengbang]

Originally Posted by mvp

Relevant to this conversation - Some people on the sports side might not be aware, but Upper Deck tracked down the original design team that did the basketball PMGs in the 90s to do the PMGs in Spider-Man Metal Universe last year. They brought back the original specs in terms of colours, manufacturing techniques, numbering scheme etc.



Who knows where that pops up again in the future...

I know the same team was used in the Metal Champions set as well but it's still off to me compared to the originals. Don't get wrong it's still nice looking though.

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[Starman101]

Anything you slap a sappy serial number on is considered "A Grail" ala PMG in this Panini parallel era

I don't agree with this and actually don't care much for parallels anymore as they've become a lame substitute for innovative quality card design in exchange for artificial scarcity in this new modern flipper whatever era....with dudes just looking to corner these cards for profit until the card drops in value when the pumpers move on to something else...

Maybe that's why there's so much pumping and flippers in the modern serial Panini era trying to pump prices like they did with PMGs...

I interpret this question as "What can we pump like PMGs" for money....just lame man....

I am a 90s collector and think PMGs are wayyyy overrated, like all the other 90s parallels theyre just souped up base cards to me...I don't see what's so great about them personally and I have owned all the 90s parallels.....I love the 90s era of cards but have 0 desire to buy any parallels...

I actually prefer early 90s game used and playing days autos over parallels....and Panini has ruined this as well with shortcut low cost non game used saturated crap just as they did with parallels....

The hobby follows trends and parallels may not be all the rage in another 20 years, as much as they have over the past 10 year Panini parallels era....

Rarity is cool but it's become scapegoat for what REALLY made the 90s card era so great ....

Because of the lack of innovation and creativity there simply will not be another 90s era because....

It's all about money now from the manufacturers down to the flippers and pretty disappointing tbh

[mjordandagoat]

Die-cut inserts > PMGs for me.

[Gem10collection]

2012-2018 Prizm/Select/Optic True Gold /10

just give it time

[ninjacookies]

Optic Mi Casa! Tmall CCP Disco Wave.

[2010GBPackers]

Just for reference, an Aaron Rodgers 2014 Totally Certified Platinum Mirror Gold (PMG) sold last month for more than any other Rodgers parallel except his 2012 Prizm Gold. Unfortunately, Panini die-cut them for basketball and they are /10 as opposed to a full card and /5 for football, but nonetheless, those parallels are the most beautiful card Panini has ever produced. If you've ever seen one in person, you know. I own all of the best parallels of Rodgers, so I have no need to pump any certain one, but my 2014 Totally Certified Platinum Mirror Gold is by far the best-looking card in my collection.

The usual pumpers have come into the space and increased prices, however, there is an end consumer as it is a must-have for PC guys. The most recent Rodgers ended up in a PC guy's collection.

[TSonn]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Just for reference, an Aaron Rodgers 2014 Totally Certified Platinum Mirror Gold (PMG) sold last month for more than any other Rodgers parallel except his 2012 Prizm Gold. Unfortunately, Panini die-cut them for basketball and they are /10 as opposed to a full card and /5 for football, but nonetheless, those parallels are the most beautiful card Panini has ever produced. If you've ever seen one in person, you know. I own all of the best parallels of Rodgers, so I have no need to pump any certain one, but my 2014 Totally Certified Platinum Mirror Gold is by far the best-looking card in my collection.

The usual pumpers have come into the space and increased prices, however, there is an end consumer as it is a must-have for PC guys. The most recent Rodgers ended up in a PC guy's collection.

Seems like any Panini-era insert/parallel that will rise to the top for NFL has to include Mahomes.

Maybe Panini will release a throwback to that set next year and include Mahomes

[fabiani12333]

If you guys want to have an honest discussion on PMGs, they actually weren't highly sought after or valued in 1997, based on my understanding. It wasn't until a decade or so ago that they got pumped on the secondary market and started to become grail cards.

It's very unlikely that there is a modern-day PMG lurking in the marketplace. The reason being is that PMGs were undervalued when they were released. Metal Universe was considered a niche brand meant for comic book fans. The graphics were in fact produced by in-house Marvel artists, as Fleer was owned by Marvel at the time. PMGs were low-numbered cards with a distinct design featuring iconic players of that era, most importantly his airness himself, MJ.

No ultra modern card will be as undervalued as PMGs were. The flipper and investment forces in the hobby don't allow cards to be undervalued.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

If you guys want to have an honest discussion on PMGs, they actually weren't highly sought after or valued in 1997, based on my understanding. It wasn't until a decade or so ago that they got pumped on the secondary market and started to become grail cards.

It's very unlikely that there is a modern-day PMG lurking in the marketplace. The reason being is that PMGs were undervalued when they were released. Metal Universe was considered a niche brand meant for comic book fans. The graphics were in fact produced by in-house Marvel artists, as Fleer was owned by Marvel at the time. PMGs were low-numbered cards with a distinct design featuring iconic players of that era, most importantly his airness himself, MJ.

No ultra modern card will be as undervalued as PMGs were. The flipper and investment forces in the hobby don't allow cards to be undervalued.

lol yes they do, look at Jokic prices. Only in the last 10-14 days have they seen a run-up to decent prices, before that he was still reigning 2x B2B MVP on the top team in the West and was selling for woefully cheap.

Look at Bonds' prices, still running up but still undervalued.

Look at vintage soccer/boxing. Lots of Pele+Maradona still well undervalued. Pre-2020 Tyson and Ali were super undervalued but have since been steadily climbing with some peaks/valleys along the way.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by 1800gambler

Not that I think they’ll catch on and be expensive like PMGs but the Elite parallels from last year give me PMG vibes. I love the look of them. The plain single color foil background.I grabbed a couple Franz parallels (orange /210, blue /99, purple /49) because I’m a Michigan fan. Im still looking for the gold /10 if anyone has one!

I pulled a Kuminga Bronze fotl /17 on release day that panini butchered the top cut on and made the mistake of sending to panini for factory damage and never heard anything further. Shoulda sold it as it was… meh oh well.

Brutal. Customer service is their lowest priority, it seems. Just produce, sell and distribute product, then move onto the next product and don't look back.