Will Topps Chrome Sapphire Retain its Value?

[pewe]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

yes, it is a RC

Are Bowman yellow or Chrome sepia or TCU Pink RC?

All packed separately, not inserted parallels... they exist as their own pack distributed “set”...


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[mfw13]

Originally Posted by pewe

Scarcity is just one of the three factors... all the above fail on at least one of the other dimensions of:
— not first flagship image
— not pretty

And certainly some other Acuna are selling for more $$ than Acuna Sapphire. So it isn’t winning in an absolute way...

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The fact that the other cards are not his first flagship image holds a little water (although the Mini and 3D are), but prettiness is irrelevant. In fact, many people would argue both his 1969 Heritage and "1983" designs/images are prettier than the flagship design/image.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The fact that the other cards are not his first flagship image holds a little water (although the Mini and 3D are), but prettiness is irrelevant. In fact, many people would argue both his 1969 Heritage and "1983" designs/images are prettier than the flagship design/image.

Haha! Well "pretty" I kind of meant as "excitement" / "following" of those products.

Unfortunately Heritage has a more modest "hits" / "PC" collecting base than flagship (its most fervent fans seem to be base card set builders).

Same with the 1983 inserts (which I do agree are fun - his '83 autos, especially the chrome are underrated, in my opinion).

The above carries over for every player, not just Acuna... thus why I'm stating it as a "rule of thumb"

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by pewe

Are Bowman yellow or Chrome sepia or TCU Pink RC?

All packed separately, not inserted parallels... they exist as their own pack distributed “set”...


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where can i buy Pink Chrome Packs on their own?

[pewe]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

where can i buy Pink Chrome Packs on their own?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-TOPPS-...oAAOSw-E5dh97Q

I guess it is the same question for "silver pack" cards... are they RC?

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by pewe

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-TOPPS-...oAAOSw-E5dh97Q

I guess it is the same question for "silver pack" cards... are they RC?

no they are not

[pewe]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

no they are not

What breaks the RC? They are not inserts... they are packed as a single product line... they are available to be purchased...

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by pewe

What breaks the RC? They are not inserts... they are packed as a single product line... they are available to be purchased...

they are parallels of an insert

[pewe]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

they are parallels of an insert

"parallels of an insert"? what insert are the parallels of? don't they have the same image as the normal flagship cards? just like Sapphire?

Or are we going down the path that Sapphire is a parallel, too (i.e., a pretty atomic chromed version of the normal flagship cards)... and thus not an RC?

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by pewe

"parallels of an insert"? what insert are the parallels of? don't they have the same image as the normal flagship cards? just like Sapphire?

Or are we going down the path that Sapphire is a parallel, too (i.e., a pretty atomic chromed version of the normal flagship cards)... and thus not an RC?

That's kinda the question I was getting at earlier...i.e. what's so special about Sapphire.

[mjwoop]

Originally Posted by mfw13

That's kinda the question I was getting at earlier...i.e. what's so special about Sapphire.

Specific to the 2018 Acuna:

- Bat down image
- Aesthetically amazing card design (the atomic aspect)
- Limited production run
- Full name and jersey number visible on the back of his jersey
- The blue background perfectly compliments the jersey color
- The look on his face that tells you he just destroyed that pitch

It's just an amazing looking card.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by pewe

"parallels of an insert"? what insert are the parallels of? don't they have the same image as the normal flagship cards? just like Sapphire?

Or are we going down the path that Sapphire is a parallel, too (i.e., a pretty atomic chromed version of the normal flagship cards)... and thus not an RC?

you cannot be this naive.

lets use your boy Devers.

his non-silver, paper version of a card that looks like 1983 topps was an insert in Flagship (i dont know which series it was in, sorry)

the silver (chrome) version of that insert was in the silver packs

[regularp]

Originally Posted by mjwoop

Specific to the 2018 Acuna:

- Bat down image
- Aesthetically amazing card design (the atomic aspect)
- Limited production run
- Full name and jersey number visible on the back of his jersey
- The blue background perfectly compliments the jersey color
- The look on his face that tells you he just destroyed that pitch

It's just an amazing looking card.

Flyout to deep right-center: https://twitter.com/FOXSportsBraves/...76888378961921

[SonofaPitch]

Hey guys, in 2019 sapphire does Pete Alonso have numbered autos? I have only seen non-numbered 2019 Topps Chrome Sapphire Pete Alonso Autographs

Thanks!

[mjwoop]

Originally Posted by regularp

Flyout to deep right-center: https://twitter.com/FOXSportsBraves/...76888378961921

The wind must've been blowing in

Seriously though - That Acuna card, coupled with the price point and distribution strategy change (from full sets to boxes), resulted in more people a) realizing how amazing the Sapphire cards look, and b) being able to attain unopened product where they previously couldn't because of the prohibitive price point. While there may be some element of shameless pumping happening on the side, I think those two aspects are what really drove a lot of the popularity increase for the Sapphire product line.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

you cannot be this naive.

lets use your boy Devers.

his non-silver, paper version of a card that looks like 1983 topps was an insert in Flagship (i dont know which series it was in, sorry)

the silver (chrome) version of that insert was in the silver packs

Lets go with "dense"... I didn't realize you were talking silver packs

Ironically, those are possibly more different than those other examples (i.e., sapphire, pink, yellow, sepia just operate on the same design all the way to the picture)... I don't know if this holds for all players, but at least in Devers the image on the silver packs is unique, and not replicated from the other insert '83 cards. But the '83 design is certainly reused.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by mjwoop

Specific to the 2018 Acuna:

- Bat down image
- Aesthetically amazing card design (the atomic aspect)
- Limited production run
- Full name and jersey number visible on the back of his jersey
- The blue background perfectly compliments the jersey color
- The look on his face that tells you he just destroyed that pitch

It's just an amazing looking card.

So? What's so special about any of these things?

IMHO, the image on the card is nothing special....no better or worse than most other images that Topps uses.

And the limited production run simply doesn't hold water. There are 250-300 copies of his Sapphire cards, and as I noted upthread, there are other rookie cards he has that are much scarcer.

Heck, the 1983 On-Demand Mini Acuna has only 9 copies and features a very popular Topps design, and I paid less than $250 for my copy.

There's absolutely nothing that justifies the ridiculous prices currently being paid for Sapphire Acunas.

[Asian62150]

Originally Posted by mfw13

There's absolutely nothing that justifies the ridiculous prices currently being paid for Sapphire Acunas.

I'd say demand is a pretty good justification for the Sapphire prices.

You said the image doesn't stand out but TONS of other people think it's a great-looking, iconic image.

And TONS of people love the Chrome finish.

Put those things together and you have LOTS and LOTS of DEMAND for a card with less than 300 in existence.

Price is gonna go UPPPPPPPPP

[pewe]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So? What's so special about any of these things?

IMHO, the image on the card is nothing special....no better or worse than most other images that Topps uses.

And the limited production run simply doesn't hold water. There are 250-300 copies of his Sapphire cards, and as I noted upthread, there are other rookie cards he has that are much scarcer.

Heck, the 1983 On-Demand Mini Acuna has only 9 copies and features a very popular Topps design, and I paid less than $250 for my copy.

There's absolutely nothing that justifies the ridiculous prices currently being paid for Sapphire Acunas.

Btw you say 250-300 copies... I did the quick math and looks like more??? Like close to 500 each in 2018?

But perhaps I’m doing it wrong? (my math... supers are 1:5 boxes... I'll assume those are non-auto supers, just for simplicity... but it would increase print run if this is wrong... 5 x 100 base cards per box = 500 base cards for each player...)

And 2019 looks well more than 1k of base?


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[mjwoop]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So? What's so special about any of these things?

IMHO, the image on the card is nothing special....no better or worse than most other images that Topps uses.

And the limited production run simply doesn't hold water. There are 250-300 copies of his Sapphire cards, and as I noted upthread, there are other rookie cards he has that are much scarcer.

Heck, the 1983 On-Demand Mini Acuna has only 9 copies and features a very popular Topps design, and I paid less than $250 for my copy.

There's absolutely nothing that justifies the ridiculous prices currently being paid for Sapphire Acunas.

A significant percentage of collectors aren't fans of abnormally sized cards (or On-Demand cards), so the mini you referenced isn't a valid comparison.

As for the 2018 Sapphire Acuna,, I can't definitively say that the reasons I listed justify the price that it's selling for right now, but I can definitively say that 2018 Sapphire was the first set in a long time (and the last one to this day) that I was truly excited about. It also seems as though I'm not the only person who had a tremendous amount of interest.

[mjwoop]

Originally Posted by pewe

Btw you say 250-300 copies... I did the quick math and looks like more??? Like close to 500 each in 2018?

But perhaps I’m doing it wrong? (my math... supers are 1:5 boxes... I'll assume those are non-auto supers, just for simplicity... but it would increase print run if this is wrong... 5 x 100 base cards per box = 500 base cards for each player...)

And 2019 looks well more than 1k of base?


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Cardboard Connection lists the superfractor odds at 1:4 boxes for 2018 Sapphire.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by mjwoop

Cardboard Connection lists the superfractor odds at 1:4 boxes for 2018 Sapphire.

I think that must include the autographs?

This is what they show for non-autos;




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[mjwoop]

That's interesting - I pulled the 1:4 from the write-up that's located above the checklist, but you're definitely correct about it showing 1:5 down in the checklist area. There are less than 20 autograph subjects, so they can't make that much of a difference, right?. I would think that the overall odds should be stated on the boxes. I don't have mine handy right now to see though unfortunately.

[mjwoop]

Doh - I can see it on the side of the box that's shown in the image on Cardboard Connection actually. It says 1:4 on the box in that image.

Update: I believe I just realized what's going on with the base Superfractor odds. From what I recall, a base card only has a Superfractor in Sapphire if it wasn't included in the regular Topps Chrome set. There were 200 base cards in the regular Topps Chrome set, so they would need to be excluded for the math to work properly. Here's how I believe it works, calculating the print run off of both the 1:4 and 1:5 options, as well as the 1:128 option listed for the Superfractor autos:

Using 1:4
4 x 500 cards in the set with a superfractor = 2,000 boxes x 100 cards per box = 200,000 total cards ÷ 700 total cards in the set = 285.71 cards per card number

Using 1:5
5 x 500 cards in the set with a superfractor = 2,500 boxes x 100 cards per box = 250,000 total cards ÷ 700 total cards in the set = 357.14 cards per card number

Using 1:128
128 x 19 cards in the autograph set = 2,432 boxes x 100 cards per box = 243,200 total cards ÷ 700 cards in the set = 347.43 cards per card number

Based on all of those results, I'm inclined to go with around 350 copies of each card, assuming no short printed cards exist. I'm curious if the 16 Acuna cards that found their way into the 2020 Transcendent mix were held back from that overall number as well.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So? What's so special about any of these things?

IMHO, the image on the card is nothing special....no better or worse than most other images that Topps uses.

And the limited production run simply doesn't hold water. There are 250-300 copies of his Sapphire cards, and as I noted upthread, there are other rookie cards he has that are much scarcer.

Heck, the 1983 On-Demand Mini Acuna has only 9 copies and features a very popular Topps design, and I paid less than $250 for my copy.

There's absolutely nothing that justifies the ridiculous prices currently being paid for Sapphire Acunas.

This is why I've been scooping up Topps Chrome Update Refractors (/250) and Bowman Chrome Refractors (/499). Not saying they'll shoot up like the Sapphire (when a card catches on, everyone zeroes in on it) but when there are other great looking cards that are similarly scarce, it should be only a matter of time until they go up as well.