Is this why PG didn't go to LA?

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

So being a ball hog because you are better than everyone else on your team and padding your stats makes you the greatest player in the history of a sport?

We are talking about two different kinds of GOATs, my friend.

No wonder this debate has gone on forever.

I've told you on numerous occasions that Lebron and Shaq are probably the two most toolsiest players in the history of basketball, they are the most "Gifted of all time".

They are, however, not the "greatest of all time" because they couldn't utilize their supreme talents to win championships. A disappointment, in a sense, because they both should have more titles under their belts given their supreme talents, but they don't have enough wins commensurate to their talents.

There, I think we have finally figured it out.(?)

We all know LeBron is an amazing player and his body of work is ridic and growing. But when his team needed him to do more he stayed in the efficiency zone of 30/9/9 instead of taking more shots. He consistently tosses the ball to a Jr or Korver (at the moment it's Kuz) for a shot with 3 seconds on the clock.

He didn't even close the game vs Denver the other night. Lance did.

I'm still amazed Bronny can't attract talent to his squads. The whole "everyone wants to play with him is BS"

His peers do not want to play with him at all. In fact, Kawhi probably believes he's better than him (strong argument)

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

We all know LeBron is an amazing player and his body of work is ridic and growing. But when his team needed him to do more he stayed in the efficiency zone of 30/9/9 instead of taking more shots. He consistently tosses the ball to a Jr or Korver (at the moment it's Kuz) for a shot with 3 seconds on the clock.

He didn't even close the game vs Denver the other night. Lance did.

I'm still amazed Bronny can't attract talent to his squads. The whole "everyone wants to play with him is BS"

His peers do not want to play with him at all. In fact, Kawhi probably believes he's better than him (strong argument)

After all these years, the Lebron homers still can't give me a good reason why no one wants to be his teammate and no one wants to coach him.

I mean, if you were a player who wanted to win championships or were a coach who wanted to win championships, which I imagine is virturally everyone playing professional basketball, why wouldn't you want the most gifted supreme player ever to play on your team.

No one wants to be with him, even if it improves your chance of getting to your endpoint.

Must be something wrong with Bron.

Can't be the greatest player of all time when you are shunned like that.

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Fancy using team accomplishments in a team sport.

Weird.

It's funny to hear pg say you can't use team accomplishments then say Lebron is the best because he led the Cavs to the Finals.

So Jordan cant get credit for winning 6 for 6 and 6 Finals MVP's but Lebron is the best for getting a team to 2nd against Lowry and Derozan and Tatum and Horford.

Got it. GOAT by a mile

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Team accomplishments. This Warriors team is better than any team MJ had to play. So it’s not really comparing apples to apples. When MJ didn’t have Scottie and Phil, his teams didn’t win anything. So apparently your team and competition matter.

what about when a more talented Heat team lost to Dallas BECAUSE of Lebron and his inability to know what to do in that series?

you really don't have to look any further... the best win when they should... Lebron didn't

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

So being a ball hog because you are better than everyone else on your team and padding your stats makes you the greatest player in the history of a sport?

We are talking about two different kinds of GOATs, my friend.

No wonder this debate has gone on forever.

I've told you on numerous occasions that Lebron and Shaq are probably the two most toolsiest players in the history of basketball, they are the most "Gifted of all time".

They are, however, not the "greatest of all time" because they couldn't utilize their supreme talents to win championships. A disappointment, in a sense, because they both should have more titles under their belts given their supreme talents, but they don't have enough wins commensurate to their talents.

There, I think we have finally figured it out.(?)

i certainly don't think lebron is the goat..... but to put all this emphasis on "team" and championships in totality is far too short sighted... for instance

he was grossly over matched against the spurs in his first finals...... nobody would have made a difference

he was grossly over matched in the last heat finals against the spurs... nobody would have made a difference

he was grossly over matched last year versus the warriors...... nobody would have made a difference

in a slightly over matched series..... although playing a poor game 6 against the spurs down the stretch the heat were able to win games 6 and 7.

while being over matched to a decent extent.... the cavs beat a 73 win warriors team who was a defending champion

those are 2 examples where you could easily say a lebron led team beat a more talented team in the finals

the real crap stain on his entire career is the dallas series... up 2-0 to a grossly inferior team, there is no excuse to lose that series. it's the single one piece of evidence that defines why lebron should never be considered the best

had he won that series.... he would have taken care of business twice against inferior dallas and oklahoma city.... and would have won against more talented san antonio in 7 and golden state in 7..... and lost the rest to teams that significantly over matched him

jordan played on 50 plus win caliber teams without him...... he took care of business against less talented teams in the finals.

but to suggest this overarching theme of total chips being the only thing that matters is laughable..... life is situations; some are more favorable than others... you just need to evaluate how players did given the opportunity they had

[mfw13]

I think the answer is pretty simple....LeBron is dominant not just on the court, but also off the court, to the point that it becomes unpleasant for other superstar level players to coexist with him.

Let's not forget he has, at various times, forced his team to make trades at his urging (Wiggins for Love), and gotten both coaches and GM's fired. That may not be an environment that other superstars want to work in.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

what about when a more talented Heat team lost to Dallas BECAUSE of Lebron and his inability to know what to do in that series?

you really don't have to look any further... the best win when they should... Lebron didn't

Dallas is the only legit knock on Lebron's career. But he made up for it the last 4 years. Doing what he's done in the Finals against the most stacked team in NBA history. That's when he became GOAT. I don't make my decisions based off team accomplishments. The Bulls won 55 games without MJ. So obviously MJ was on a really good team and with him, should have won the Finals against mediocre competition. There's no way Lebron should have even been competitive last year with the team he had let alone beat 4 all stars in their prime. It's actual game play on the court and no one in the history of the game could have done what Lebron did the last 4 years with what little he had. No one.

[Noah]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Dallas is the only legit knock on Lebron's career. But he made up for it the last 4 years. Doing what he's done in the Finals against the most stacked team in NBA history. That's when he became GOAT. I don't make my decisions based off team accomplishments. The Bulls won 55 games without MJ. So obviously MJ was on a really good team and with him, should have won the Finals against mediocre competition. It's actual game play on the court and no one in the history of the game could have done what Lebron did the last 4 years with what little he had. No one.

So he became Your GOAT by losing to a better teams? why isn’t Iverson your GOAT?

At 6ft nothing

Iverson made it to the finals to lose and didn’t have hall of fame players and all stars like
Wade
Bosh
Ray Allen
Kevin love
Tristan Thompson
Kyrie
Korver
Shaq yea shaq is in there because I already know you are going to say Iverson had dikembe

Not mention role players that were once the faces of other teams
Juwan Howard
Mike bibby
Mike miller
Shane battier
Kyle korver
Rashard Lewis
Deron Williams







For their career

Iverson 26.7, 3.7rpg, 6.2 ast
lebron 27.2ppg, 7.4rpg, 7.2ast

If you seriously have lebron as goat then Iverson better be your number 2 because what he accomplished with far less talented teammates than lebron has had is remarkable

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by Noah

So he became Your GOAT by losing to a better teams? why isn’t Iverson your GOAT?

At 6ft nothing

Iverson made it to the finals to lose and didn’t have hall of fame players and all stars like
Wade
Bosh
Ray Allen
Kevin love
Tristan Thompson
Kyrie
Korver
Shaq yea shaq is in there because I already know you are going to say Iverson had dikembe

Not mention role players that were once the faces of other teams
Juwan Howard
Mike bibby
Mike miller
Shane battier
Kyle korver
Rashard Lewis
Deron Williams







For their career

Iverson 26.7, 3.7rpg, 6.2 ast
lebron 27.2ppg, 7.4rpg, 7.2ast

If you seriously have lebron as goat then Iverson better be your number 2 because what he accomplished with far less talented teammates than lebron has had is remarkable

Did iverson ever average a triple double or lead both teams in points, assists, rebounds, blocks, and steals? I’ll patiently wait the answer. What Lebron has done the last 4 years with what he had against the talent of the Warriors, no player in history could come close. Only the GOAT.

[rats60]

The Pistons beat the 2004 Lakers, who had won 3 of the previous 4 NBA titles, with less talent than LeBron's teams have had. If LeBron was a top 5 player, he would have done better than 8-19 the last 5 NBA Finals. Any other top player wouldn't have performed so poorly and won so few games.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by rats60

The Pistons beat the 2004 Lakers, who had won 3 of the previous 4 NBA titles, with less talent than LeBron's teams have had. If LeBron was a top 5 player, he would have done better than 8-19 the last 5 NBA Finals. Any other top player wouldn't have performed so poorly and won so few games.

Lol, those Pistons teams having less talent than the Cavs. You guys crack me up with what you come up with.

[DevinKurant]

Originally Posted by rats60

The Pistons beat the 2004 Lakers, who had won 3 of the previous 4 NBA titles, with less talent than LeBron's teams have had. If LeBron was a top 5 player, he would have done better than 8-19 the last 5 NBA Finals. Any other top player wouldn't have performed so poorly and won so few games.

Arguably the worst logic I’ve ever heard in an attempt to troll Lebron. This one deserves an award. Cheers to rats.


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[Noah]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Did iverson ever average a triple double or lead both teams in points, assists, rebounds, blocks, and steals? I’ll patiently wait the answer. What Lebron has done the last 4 years with what he had against the talent of the Warriors, no player in history could come close. Only the GOAT.

No Iverson wasn’t a stat filler, he cared about winning and knew he had to score to win. He didn’t pass up the shot in closing minutes, he hit the shot and would step over your body like a killer.

Lebron not getting his teammates involved in the finals is your straw to grasp at, and it is the reason he lost another finals.

Leading in rebounds against a team that is run and gun, and had no interior game hardly amazing

Leading in assists against a team that pulls threes from half court and their top 2 guys are iso players

Leading in pts when the other team has 3 guys dropping 25+ on your noggin, instead of stat filling like lebron, well that’s just not good team basketball

Iverson was better than lebron with far less talent


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[pgisback]

Originally Posted by Noah

No Iverson wasn’t a stat filler, he cared about winning and knew he had to score to win. He didn’t pass up the shot in closing minutes, he hit the shot and would step over your body like a killer.

Lebron not getting his teammates involved in the finals is your straw to grasp at, and it is the reason he lost another finals.

Leading in rebounds against a team that is run and gun, and had no interior game hardly amazing

Leading in assists against a team that pulls threes from half court and their top 2 guys are iso players

Leading in pts when the other team has 3 guys dropping 25+ on your noggin, instead of stat filling like lebron, well that’s just not good team basketball

Iverson was better than lebron with far less talent


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Lmao. Iverson wasn't a stat filler and Iverson was better than Lebron. You guys say some ridiculous things. Carry on...

[pgisback]

MJ's two best Finals performances vs Lebrons. Lebron more points, assists, steals, rebounds, blocks, all while shooting better from the field and 3. There's no way around this. Absolutely, no player in the history of the game could do this.

[pgisback]

I'm used to the anti-Lebron blowout crowd saying some really dumb things but the 2004 Pistons with Chauncey, Sheed, Rip, and Ben Wallace having less talent than Lebron's Cavs teams and Iverson being better than Lebron might be two of the crazier things said. Ha

[Noah]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Lmao. Iverson wasn't a stat filler and Iverson was better than Lebron. You guys say some ridiculous things. Carry on...

Which stat did Iverson fill?

Points!!!!!!!!

And he filled that stat to attempt to win, he knew what his team needed unlike lebron who bounces around the court failing to play every position and costing his teams final loss after final loss because he can’t figure it out

Lebron waving or pushing delly or kyrie away from a rebound so he can stat fill

Lebron running point for 3 quarters when kyrie is on your team is ridiculous and just an attempt to stat fill assists

Lebron is your GOAT because he stat filled a finals and lost, you say some ridiculous stuff

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by Noah

Which stat did Iverson fill?

Points!!!!!!!!

And he filled that stat to attempt to win, he knew what his team needed unlike lebron who bounces around the court failing to play every position and costing his teams final loss after final loss because he can’t figure it out

Lebron waving or pushing delly or kyrie away from a rebound so he can stat fill

Lebron running point for 3 quarters when kyrie is on your team is ridiculous and just an attempt to stat fill assists

Lebron is your GOAT because he stat filled a finals and lost, you say some ridiculous stuff

Stat filling is Iverson taking 30 shots to score 30 points and shooting 38% from the field. What Lebron has done is the opposite of stat filling. One of the reasons he’s GOAT is he’s doing all this while shooting over 50% from the field. The level of efficiency he’s playing at is unmatched. Only the GOAT could play at that level.

[Noah]

Originally Posted by pgisback

MJ's two best Finals performances vs Lebrons. Lebron more points, assists, steals, rebounds, blocks, all while shooting better from the field and 3. There's no way around this. Absolutely, no player in the history of the game could do this.

What about all those losses, what’s those stats look like. Go educate yourself

Jordan’s worst 6 finals vs lebrons worst 6, gotta favor Jordan on that one right?

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by Noah

What about all those losses, what’s those stats look like. Go educate yourself

Jordan’s worst 6 finals vs lebrons worst 6, gotta favor Jordan on that one right?

Numbers speak for themselves and they overwhelmingly favor Lebron. MJs Bulls were really good though. That I’ll agree with.

[Noah]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Stat filling is Iverson taking 30 shots to score 30 points and shooting 38% from the field. What Lebron has done is the opposite of stat filling. One of the reasons he’s GOAT is he’s doing all this while shooting over 50% from the field. The level of efficiency he’s playing at is unmatched. Only the GOAT could play at that level.

Lebron not taking 30 shots and trying to help his team win is the reason they lose, he wants his meaningless stats to look good and is afraid to take the GOAT shots to help his team win

Psssh, jokic has a perfect game, has lebron ever been perfect? Jokic is goat

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by Noah

Lebron not taking 30 shots and trying to help his team win is the reason they lose, he wants his meaningless stats to look good and is afraid to take the GOAT shots to help his team win

Psssh, jokic has a perfect game, has lebron ever been perfect? Jokic is goat

So the only meaningful stat is a team stat? Got it. You should go argue about teams. This is a player argument. And Lebron clearly is the better individual player. Doing things no one else can do.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Lol, those Pistons teams having less talent than the Cavs. You guys crack me up with what you come up with.

That Pistons team didn't have a single Hofer. LeBron's teams had LeBron plus take your pick of Wade, Bosh, Allen, Irving and Love. You can't talk about how great LeBron is and then make excuses for losing with other Hofers and All Stars. If LeBron was as good as you claim, he wouldn't be performing so poorly in Finals.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by DevinKurant

Arguably the worst logic I’ve ever heard in an attempt to troll Lebron. This one deserves an award. Cheers to rats.


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Insult the poster instead of making a logical counter-argument. You win today's award for trolling.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by rats60

That Pistons team didn't have a single Hofer. LeBron's teams had LeBron plus take your pick of Wade, Bosh, Allen, Irving and Love. You can't talk about how great LeBron is and then make excuses for losing with other Hofers and All Stars. If LeBron was as good as you claim, he wouldn't be performing so poorly in Finals.

Lol, other than kyrie there is not a single player on Lebrons Cavs teams that I wouldn’t trade for any of the Pistons 5 starters. To say they were less talented than these Cavs teams is asinine. Lol. Means you literally should not be taken seriously with your arguments because your understanding of basketball is skewed.

Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, Prince, Ben Wallace

Being less talented than these Cavs, lmao!!! You should ban yourself for that comment.