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Old 06-12-2016, 01:22 PM   #101
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Lol, dude, I ain't young.......I've seen every Jordan championship. Jordan went for 30 in more than 90% of Finals games and never saw a Game 7. Steph Curry doesn't have to "SAVE" his team, the Bulls needed many of Jordan's big game nights!

Defense was easier back then in reference to spacing not speaking about physicality. You have to play people from 30 feet up the court now, players are bigger, players are stronger, and most importantly.....players are WAY MORE ATHLETIC NOW!
Oh, I wasn't directing that specifically to you or anything, I just think that the biggest segment of fans that would think Golden State had the best season+playoffs of all-time would generally be younger.

Players are certainly more athletic, but personally I really do miss the more physical nature of the game. If I could leave one rule unchanged it would be the hand-check rule... When did they change it, '04?
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Old 06-12-2016, 01:24 PM   #102
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Lol, dude, I ain't young.......I've seen every Jordan championship. Jordan went for 30 in more than 90% of Finals games and never saw a Game 7. Steph Curry doesn't have to "SAVE" his team, the Bulls needed many of Jordan's big game nights!

Defense was easier back then in reference to spacing not speaking about physicality. You have to play people from 30 feet up the court now, players are bigger, players are stronger, and most importantly.....players are WAY MORE ATHLETIC NOW!
And you don't have to play "people" from 30 feet out either. That's just Steph. Sounds like you're taking the truly exceptional talents of this generation and trying to apply it to the league as a whole.
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Old 06-12-2016, 01:41 PM   #103
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So far despite Draymond Green Being Suspended if the Warriors Wins another Championship in his face. Then LeBron would have 2 rings thanks to Wade and Bosh, the Second ring would be from another Good medalist member future HOF Ray Allen..
7 championship finals appearance on the weakling East... and just 2 rings.. no way he is goat.. it has the world Greatness....Lebron Doesn't play good under pressure.. He is good relying on very good Future HOF Teammates... I would love Lebron to win for Ohio. Since most of my Family lives there and I just had a 3 weeks vacation there and surrounding states.. I find it hard to support a player that doesn't lead his team....so Far Kyrie Irving is leading this Cavs team... the final stat doesn't give justice because most of his points and other stats came from garbage time.. I'm Sorry.... but No way That he should be associated to greatness.

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Old 06-12-2016, 01:48 PM   #104
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Jordan wanted to beat the best teams. Bron bron tries to get the best teams in trouble so he can beat the backups.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:41 PM   #105
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Lebron will never be the GOAT but at least people are putting him in the conversation of it.
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:39 PM   #106
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And the reason they can play small ball is because there are no great bigs. The league isn't bigger and stronger. That's a myth.

See the product of this statement does not take into account pace. There is no way that the big men back in the day could keep up with this pace. The new big man that is the most conventional with a modern flair....is Andre Drummond. He will develop a back to the basket game, strong as a bull, and is a freak-athlete. The speed combined with all those features will make him deadly.

The bigger men will have trouble, and I know ppl will say Boogie is the best big man and I think he is on an individual talent standpoint, but I don't think he would fare well with how the game is changing, he will have to be the 2nd option on a championship team.

Watch Boogie's recovery when he's trailing the play, they wait till he gets to the paint and attack him. He's a very very good player who in my opinion deserves more love than he gets, but the league is moving away from that size of Center. Love Boogie's range, but if you play dominantly better on one side of the ball over the other, it's hard to contend and show your team what it takes to win games.
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:55 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by thepinoymamba View Post
So far despite Draymond Green Being Suspended if the Warriors Wins another Championship in his face. Then LeBron would have 2 rings thanks to Wade and Bosh, the Second ring would be from another Good medalist member future HOF Ray Allen..
7 championship finals appearance on the weakling East... and just 2 rings.. no way he is goat.. it has the world Greatness....Lebron Doesn't play good under pressure.. He is good relying on very good Future HOF Teammates... I would love Lebron to win for Ohio. Since most of my Family lives there and I just had a 3 weeks vacation there and surrounding states.. I find it hard to support a player that doesn't lead his team....so Far Kyrie Irving is leading this Cavs team... the final stat doesn't give justice because most of his points and other stats came from garbage time.. I'm Sorry.... but No way That he should be associated to greatness.

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Curry is playing with bums, right? Did by himself, right?
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:59 PM   #108
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Curry is playing with bums, right? Did by himself, right?
Curry didnt need to set up a plan to team up with other superstars. Curry and his team were drafted and traded and became great. Thats the difference between actually doing it the proper way vs buying a champship. The GS didnt buy a championship. Lebron during the Heat bought they championship.
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:19 PM   #109
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LeQueen, LeTravel, LeJoke will NEVER be GOAT, not even top 3...

Roberston, Jordan, Russell etc....
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:27 PM   #110
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And the reason they can play small ball is because there are no great bigs. The league isn't bigger and stronger. That's a myth.

See the product of this statement does not take into account pace. There is no way that the big men back in the day could keep up with this pace. The new big man that is the most conventional with a modern flair....is Andre Drummond. He will develop a back to the basket game, strong as a bull, and is a freak-athlete. The speed combined with all those features will make him deadly.

The bigger men will have trouble, and I know ppl will say Boogie is the best big man and I think he is on an individual talent standpoint, but I don't think he would fare well with how the game is changing, he will have to be the 2nd option on a championship team.

Watch Boogie's recovery when he's trailing the play, they wait till he gets to the paint and attack him. He's a very very good player who in my opinion deserves more love than he gets, but the league is moving away from that size of Center. Love Boogie's range, but if you play dominantly better on one side of the ball over the other, it's hard to contend and show your team what it takes to win games.


Olajuwon, Shaq (in his prime), Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe, and Mourning (to name a few) are all as if not better conditioned than Drummond. I don't see how you can make that argument. Sure, there were some circus side show oddities back in the day like Shawn Bradley, Ostertag and the like, but that's the same as today, but even more magnified by the lack of talent.

I have no doubts any of the previously mentioned centers would reak havoc both on the offensive and defensive ends. Heck, Drummond is rendered useless outside of 4 feet...I can't even imagine what a guy like Olajuwon could do to these flat footed centers that can't play a lick of defense and aren't allowed to handcheck. Nightmares galore.
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:37 PM   #111
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Olajuwon, Shaq (in his prime), Ewing, David Robinson, Dikembe, and Mourning (to name a few) are all as if not better conditioned than Drummond. I don't see how you can make that argument. Sure, there were some circus side show oddities back in the day like Shawn Bradley, Ostertag and the like, but that's the same as today, but even more magnified by the lack of talent.

I have no doubts any of the previously mentioned centers would reak havoc both on the offensive and defensive ends. Heck, Drummond is rendered useless outside of 4 feet...I can't even imagine what a guy like Olajuwon could do to these flat footed centers that can't play a lick of defense and aren't allowed to handcheck. Nightmares galore.
I agree with you ninja. He keeps picking out the most athletic people to prove his stance. Drummond sucks anyway like you said outside 4 feet. To say the game is changing would imply everyone will be that way and it's just not the case. When Shaq was young and played Boston and dunked on Parish, Parish told McHale if this is what being center is becoming it's time for us to go.

Now did the position develop into 350 pound skilled guys who could not be stopped by 2 people. No. It was just Shaq.

Style of play, pace, etc etc. David Robinson and Olajuwon would destroy these guys under any set of circumstances. And don't even get me started with someone like Shaq.

The league follows the trends of its best players. When there are great bigs again and there will be at some point you will see teams trying to counterbalance that with their own big development and drafting. Just so happens right now they are all terrible in the sense of building around them.

If he thinks Cousins can be the 2nd option on a title team best of luck.
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:47 PM   #112
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I agree with you ninja. He keeps picking out the most athletic people to prove his stance. Drummond sucks anyway like you said outside 4 feet. To say the game is changing would imply everyone will be that way and it's just not the case. When Shaq was young and played Boston and dunked on Parish, Parish told McHale if this is what being center is becoming it's time for us to go.

Now did the position develop into 350 pound skilled guys who could not be stopped by 2 people. No. It was just Shaq.

Style of play, pace, etc etc. David Robinson and Olajuwon would destroy these guys under any set of circumstances. And don't even get me started with someone like Shaq.

The league follows the trends of its best players. When there are great bigs again and there will be at some point you will see teams trying to counterbalance that with their own big development and drafting. Just so happens right now they are all terrible in the sense of building around them.

If he thinks Cousins can be the 2nd option on a title team best of luck.
Word. It's a cycle. Just like the heavyweight boxing division. There were the glory years where there were dominant sluggers, and now it's another dry spell.
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Old 06-13-2016, 01:44 AM   #113
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Where are these great bigs you speak of?

They don't exist because when Kobe, Jordan and etc were younger AAU basketball wasn't this developed. The AAU system is being modeled off the NCAA and now NCAA wants to play faster because 1) it sells more tickets because of more scoring 2) More fluidity.

Gone are the days of big guys unless you get a Lebron-like wonder athlete playing Center. It's coming from the top to a trickle down effect to the youth.

And to reference that it's a cycle stats don't lie, the NBA has been on a move for 40 years and has been improving on the 3-point shot almost every sequential year.

These days, more than ever, the best teams shoot the three | NBA.com

Here's a nice article from MORE than 2 years ago showing you the data. It probably is better that it doesn't show the last 2 years of data, because we all know the 3 point shot has moved higher.
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:14 AM   #114
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I'm not debating that. What I'm telling you is that it will shift again when the best players are big guys again. And I'm not going to argue with you like we're in a boardroom so you can show me power points and charts and line graphs.

What's funny to me is your insistence now that the league is smaller when not a page ago I had to hear how everyone is bigger and stronger.

If the time comes when an Olajuwon, Shaq, Ewing, or Robinson type rolls through college and they say hey buddy get out of the post and go stand in the corner so you can stretch the floor I'll come back to this page and apologize but I don't see it happening.

There is a reason that even with these trends that everyone salivates when they have a chance to take a 1 year low sample size guy like Embiid over Wiggins, a Greg Oden even with injury concerns over Durant, and how everyone wanted to move heaven and earth for Anthony Davis.

It's a simple concept really. If you can get a generational big and build around him you will. If there are none, you'll play a different way and guys like Deandre will make 90 million.
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