2022 Baseball HOF ballot - Page 45

cardsin47 · 01-25-2022, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzagacubs

These idiots made a name for themselves, a career and a lot of money covering Bonds and others. Shameful day for baseball.

But they did it without filling their pens and pencils with steroids to make it to the top of their profession…..

JustinVerlander07 · 01-25-2022, 08:32 PM

If the Baseball Hall of fame is suppose to be to tell you the story of the league. How in the world do you do it without a top 5 of ALL-TIME player.

The process is just a joke. Same people voting Omar Vizquel didn't vote Bonds. So beat your wife? Cool. Use a steroid (that was legal!!!) BAD!

If Bonds had the 15 years guys use to have on the ballot (which was changed just to keep him out!) he would've been in. He was slowly trending up as the new voters came in (and he always did well with the new, younger voters) and the old dinosaurs were losing their ballot.

Silent George · 01-25-2022, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Ortiz generated 408 wRAA on offense, Sosa managed 300.5.

The entire fWAR difference between the two is defensive. Where Sosa gets -7 and Ortiz gets -247. Thus, yes, net Sosa has 140 more wRAA across offense + defense. But it is purely a defensive swing for him.

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So the overall conclusion is….

Skipscards · 01-25-2022, 08:33 PM

Well, congrats to David Ortiz. Good for him and good for all his fans. I’m genuinely happy for them.

Just to echo most everyone else’s sentiment on this thread, the BBWAA is full of hypocrites.

I feel bad for Nathan (who is better than Wagner).

Happy Torri Hunter will get at least one more look.

Going to be interesting to see how Bonds and Clemens fare on the Veterans Committee ballot. Maybe Big Papi gets on the Committee and tells everyone in the room to chill about PEDs.

cardsin47 · 01-25-2022, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

If the Baseball Hall of fame is suppose to be to tell you the story of the league. How in the world do you do it without a top 5 of ALL-TIME player.

Maybe top 5 / maybe not ——— we’ll never know because of the CHEATING, which continues to be ‘no big deal’ to a lot of people apparently

JustinVerlander07 · 01-25-2022, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Maybe top 5 / maybe not ——— we’ll never know because of the CHEATING, which continues to be ‘no big deal’ to a lot of people apparently

There are SO many "cheaters" already in the HOF. Heck the voters let one in tonight!! Barry Bonds pre huge-head was already an all-time great player.

Who cares if he used steroids? The league didn't care at the time, he was already an elite-elite player before anyone thinks he touched steroids.

pewe · 01-25-2022, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent George

So the overall conclusion is….

Ortiz was 133% of Sosa on offense, and it is only via defense that Sosa put up higher WAR numbers.

Thus: Sosa was not an “overall better player”. Just a better defender.

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Archangel1775 · 01-25-2022, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent George

If Ortiz makes it, he will become my 100th HOF auto. It's a moment for me.

Wow, very cool! It'd be funny if you were a Yankees fan.

jduds · 01-25-2022, 08:54 PM

One major part of my PC is graded rookies of HOF players elected 1999 and later (basically works as the cutoff for guys I saw play). I keep cards organized by collection and have been waiting to move ARod, Bonds, Sosa, and Clemens over. I'm tired of waiting so into the HOF section they go. Alphabetical filing as a personal and silent protest. I know the meanings of both petty and ineffectual. I was hoping Ortiz missed the cut so his prices might dip a bit so I could pick one up. I've known it was inevitable (have pretty much all other future candidates but Trout), but just couldn't force myself to pay for Ortiz's Fleer or Fleer Ultra rc as I just never liked either set. I'd have bought a Topps or Upper Deck one ages ago.

coltsnsox07 · 01-25-2022, 09:08 PM

I love Ortiz, I saw this old meme out there..
http://

xbignick · 01-25-2022, 09:09 PM

Lol.

dhendrix1303 · 01-25-2022, 09:13 PM

Barry. Bonds. Is. A. Cheat.

Period.

Good riddance.

cardsin47 · 01-25-2022, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhendrix1303

Barry. Bonds. Is. A. Cheat.

Period.

Good riddance.

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jrosales · 01-25-2022, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Well, congrats to David Ortiz. Good for him and good for all his fans. I’m genuinely happy for them.

Just to echo most everyone else’s sentiment on this thread, the BBWAA is full of hypocrites.

I feel bad for Nathan (who is better than Wagner).

Happy Torri Hunter will get at least one more look.

Going to be interesting to see how Bonds and Clemens fare on the Veterans Committee ballot. Maybe Big Papi gets on the Committee and tells everyone in the room to chill about PEDs.

I don't see how Nathan is better than Wagner.

cardsin47 · 01-25-2022, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Who cares if he used steroids?

For starters, I’ll betcha’ the Players that didn’t use care very much …

Skipscards · 01-25-2022, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrosales

I don't see how Nathan is better than Wagner.

Good question…I posted this a while back…

Nathan was so dominant, he was one of the 5 best relivers in the league in 2004, 2005, 2006 (#1), 2007, 2008, 2009 (#1), and 2013. Wagner can't match that. There aren't many (maybe 2) who can.

Again, I am not advocating his induction. In fact, I'd be fine if we had no failed starters in the Hall at all. But we have them and the idea that nearly half of all voters think Wagner is a Hall of Famer (and inevitably will be), while Nathan will be one and done is, well, stupid.

zworykin · 01-25-2022, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsin47

For starters, I’ll betcha’ the Players that didn’t use care very much …

All four or five of them, eh?

Noles939913 · 01-25-2022, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschade

Please find me any report where Barry Bonds failed any tests.

And fyi you will be looking for a long time because he never failed one test.

When will people stop parroting that Bonds never failed a test. He absolutely failed a test for Amphetamines and then tried to claim it was some supplement he didn’t know what it was that he himself had stolen from a teammate’s locker. I’m sure no one believes this bizarre story but it totally sums up what a piece of work he was. Not only does he throw his teammate under the bus by name he paints himself as a rotten thief in the process.

MRSPORTSCARD · 01-25-2022, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbignick

Lol.

Big Papi Three WS rings.
Barry Bonds zero.
Big Papi slayed the Yankees dragon.
The Giants went on to win three WS without Bonds.
End of story.

Silent George · 01-25-2022, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

Ortiz was 133% of Sosa on offense, and it is only via defense that Sosa put up higher WAR numbers.

Thus: Sosa was not an “overall better player”. Just a better defender.

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I guess the conclusion is that pewe doesn’t know what “overall” means.

pewe · 01-25-2022, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent George

I guess the conclusion is that pewe doesn’t know what “overall” means.

You may have nailed it

For me “overall” means “in all aspects of the game this is a better player”.

For you? Does it mean “in aggregate WAR is higher”?

If so, I see why I spoke past you. And will agree, Sosa’s career fWAR was higher.

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rman112 · 01-25-2022, 09:53 PM

Maybe Manfred will be verbally jerking off A-Rod in a few years like he did for Big Papi.

coltsnsox07 · 01-25-2022, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRSPORTSCARD

Big Papi Three WS rings.
Barry Bonds zero.
Big Papi slayed the Yankees dragon.
The Giants went on to win three WS without Bonds.
End of story.

fantastic points, I would have went all Kenny Powers and started with
"Listen here you beautiful bitch. I am about to f*#k you up with some truth."

rman112 · 01-25-2022, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

When the Commish comes out in support of you and your background that is a massive boost, Clemens and Bonds did not qualify for that.

Looks like they should've gotten shot because they were cheating on their wife with a crime lord's woman. That seems to do it.

Silent George · 01-25-2022, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewe

You may have nailed it

For me “overall” means “in all aspects of the game this is a better player”.

For you? Does it mean “in aggregate WAR is higher”?

If so, I see why I spoke past you. And will agree, Sosa’s career fWAR was higher.

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Overall definition “taking everything into account”

Ortiz was definitely the better hitter.

It’s not necessarily a WAR argument. But it’s an easy one to make in this case with WAR so far and playing time so close.

01-25-2022, 08:32 PM	#1102
JustinVerlander07 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 17,360 gladdyontherise gladdyontherise	If the Baseball Hall of fame is suppose to be to tell you the story of the league. How in the world do you do it without a top 5 of ALL-TIME player. The process is just a joke. Same people voting Omar Vizquel didn't vote Bonds. So beat your wife? Cool. Use a steroid (that was legal!!!) BAD! If Bonds had the 15 years guys use to have on the ballot (which was changed just to keep him out!) he would've been in. He was slowly trending up as the new voters came in (and he always did well with the new, younger voters) and the old dinosaurs were losing their ballot. __________________ Collecting Justin Verlander, Detroit Tigers, Michigan State Spartans, Miz, Jey Uso, Kelani Jordan, Macho Man, WWE "Cavs in 7. Write it down"

01-25-2022, 08:33 PM	#1104
Skipscards Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: In Tribute To The Great Ryno Posts: 30,209 jlankf2 jmp4	Well, congrats to David Ortiz. Good for him and good for all his fans. I’m genuinely happy for them. Just to echo most everyone else’s sentiment on this thread, the BBWAA is full of hypocrites. I feel bad for Nathan (who is better than Wagner). Happy Torri Hunter will get at least one more look. Going to be interesting to see how Bonds and Clemens fare on the Veterans Committee ballot. Maybe Big Papi gets on the Committee and tells everyone in the room to chill about PEDs. __________________ Go Royals!! #RoyalsIn2015 <---It Happened!! #TEAMZinck Sometimes it is astounding that we are able to persist in a world so full of morons.

01-25-2022, 08:54 PM	#1109
jduds Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 3,816 chilaw57	One major part of my PC is graded rookies of HOF players elected 1999 and later (basically works as the cutoff for guys I saw play). I keep cards organized by collection and have been waiting to move ARod, Bonds, Sosa, and Clemens over. I'm tired of waiting so into the HOF section they go. Alphabetical filing as a personal and silent protest. I know the meanings of both petty and ineffectual. I was hoping Ortiz missed the cut so his prices might dip a bit so I could pick one up. I've known it was inevitable (have pretty much all other future candidates but Trout), but just couldn't force myself to pay for Ortiz's Fleer or Fleer Ultra rc as I just never liked either set. I'd have bought a Topps or Upper Deck one ages ago. Last edited by jduds; 01-25-2022 at 09:01 PM.

01-25-2022, 09:09 PM	#1111
xbignick Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 29,309 xxbignick	Lol. __________________ @xxbignick on twitter

01-25-2022, 09:13 PM	#1112
dhendrix1303 Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 9,711	Barry. Bonds. Is. A. Cheat. Period. Good riddance. __________________ Buying: 1995 Atlanta Braves autos Pre-80's Atlanta Braves PSA Vintage

01-25-2022, 09:08 PM	#1110
coltsnsox07 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 22,205	I love Ortiz, I saw this old meme out there.. http://

01-25-2022, 09:53 PM	#1122
rman112 Banned Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Freedom is Free Again Posts: 40,946	Maybe Manfred will be verbally jerking off A-Rod in a few years like he did for Big Papi.