Do you still want your kids to go to college?

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by Blazed

Some people need to be told what to do.

Some people need structure because they aren't self starters.

Some people aren't smart enough to build a business from the ground up.

And that's ok.

Is it though?

Not smart enough, not a self-starter, need to be told what to do. Those all sound negative.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

Some STEM is nonsense. The blind worship at the altar of STEM creates some truly stunted human brains. STEM alone will not save your kids or anyone else's.

I don’t disagree. You can find nonsensical components in just about anything.

The bottom line is that the STEM path, generally, produces the best ROI if you’re going to go to college and you’re not doing post grad

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by jplarson

Is it though?

Not smart enough, not a self-starter, need to be told what to do. Those all sound negative.

I don’t think it’s inherently negative, it’s just how it is.

He’s 100% right that most people simply don’t have what it takes to be entrepreneurial or self starters. Having too many of those types would probably be a bad thing anyways for society at large.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Blazed

This guy is one of the most bitter and negative people on here.

Always negative no matter what the topic is.

That says a lot.




Nice emotional response.

But I never said people who work a 9-5 are losers?

Some people need to be told what to do. Some people need structure because they aren't self starters. Some people aren't smart enough to build a business from the ground up. And that's ok.

Telling people to try something and give it a shot to see how it works out is horrible advice? That's crazy.

No inheritance or lucking into money here.




Throwing out random theories and stats is wild.

Vast majority of people will not be successful without a college degree?

That college degree you got framed in your entryway got you feeling that special huh?

Lol.

I’m the first one to admit my degree is completely worthless. It didn’t even get me a job. I have a BS in business management and I got hired as a programmer.

I spent 4 years partying and having an absolute blast. It was 100% worth what I paid.

That being said, it was drilled into me from day 1 that I would be going to college or the military. There was no other option. If I could go back I’d probably go into a trade instead but such is life. I make great money, have a laughably easy job at a fortune 100 company with great benefits and work life balance. It’s nice and safe and easy and that works for me

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

The belief that everything is quantifiable, which leads to the assumption that everything can be reduced to an algorithmic solution of some kind.

The temporal provincialism generated by an exclusive focus on the manipulation of the present for desired outcomes at the expense of any consciousness of historical context.

The inability of many STEM practitioners to communicate effectively in written prose pr public speaking.

crickets...

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by cnewby

crickets...

If you hadn't put me on ignore you would have read my reply to this

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I don’t disagree. You can find nonsensical components in just about anything.

The bottom line is that the STEM path, generally, produces the best ROI if you’re going to go to college and you’re not doing post grad

And how does ROI correlate to non tangible life measures like happiness, fulfillment, being content.

I just can’t get past these types of statements that turn a spectrum of world experience into a singular truth.

I hope to Jeebus that kids today are not fed this “STEM produces the best ROI” statement when considering their futures.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by jplarson

If you hadn't put me on ignore you would have read my reply to this

Wasn't talking about you. I have 0 people on ignore, my skin is thikk. Was referring to the person who asked Hairy the question.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

And how does ROI correlate to non tangible life measures like happiness, fulfillment, being content.

I just can’t get past these types of statements that turn a spectrum of world experience into a singular truth.

I hope to Jeebus that kids today are not fed this “STEM produces the best ROI” statement when considering their futures.

All of the highest ROI undergrad degrees are engineering. You can ignore it but that's just the simple reality. Truth is kind of important

People should do whatever makes them happy but also not cry when the software engineers are making 4x the people who didn't consider it.

If you're going to spend $150k on something shouldn't you consider what the future earnings of that thing are? That would be the smart thing to do.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

And how does ROI correlate to non tangible life measures like happiness, fulfillment, being content.

I just can’t get past these types of statements that turn a spectrum of world experience into a singular truth.

I hope to Jeebus that kids today are not fed this “STEM produces the best ROI” statement when considering their futures.

100%.

Originally Posted by cnewby

Wasn't talking about you. I have 0 people on ignore, my skin is thikk. Was referring to the person who asked Hairy the question.

My mistake, I took the crickets to be no one replying to H-Sas. Carry on

[jcardstore]

If you want to study art history, or medieval literature... go for it. You're probably not going to find a great job very easily and end up going back to school for something else.

I've hired many people who had to learn the hard way that their degree was worthless and ended up having to go back to school at 40 to learn something that actually paid the bills

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by Blazed

You're talking about Hollywood. Hollywood is fake. I agree.

The worst advice you could ever give is telling someone not to try something just because it didn't work out for you or you think it won't work out for them based on your beliefs.

It's 2024 not 1900's.

Huge difference in how the world operates.

I don’t know you. Is this your bit, your routine on the boards? It needs work. Too obvious. Not working for you.

Just write “OK, boomer” to me and get it over with. I get it. I get your little bit. It’s clever. Really, it is. No one’s done it before. It works better when you appear slightly more worldly.

This is a weird character you are workshopping. Not sure it’s saying about you what you think it is.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

All of the highest ROI undergrad degrees are engineering. You can ignore it but that's just the simple reality. Truth is kind of important

People should do whatever makes them happy but also not cry when the software engineers are making 4x the people who didn't consider it.

If you're going to spend $150k on something shouldn't you consider what the future earnings of that thing are? That would be the smart thing to do.

Who is spending $150k on an undergrad degree. I’m not arguing the point, I’m questioning the value and risk of saying that to kids.

Do you think you’re singular and detrimental “college or military” upbringing is being carried forward in the overly simplified language you use around secondary education?

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I don’t know you. Is this your bit, your routine on the boards? It needs work. Too obvious. Not working for you.

Just write “OK, boomer” to me and get it over with. I get it. I get your little bit. It’s clever. Really, it is. No one’s done it before. It works better when you appear slightly more worldly.

This is a weird character you are workshopping. Not sure it’s saying about you what you think it is.

Your. sentence structure. sucks.

[TheHeel]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

The belief that everything is quantifiable, which leads to the assumption that everything can be reduced to an algorithmic solution of some kind.

The temporal provincialism generated by an exclusive focus on the manipulation of the present for desired outcomes at the expense of any consciousness of historical context.

The inability of many STEM practitioners to communicate effectively in written prose pr public speaking.

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

At its highest level, a lot of pure mathematics is non-practical. Nonsense isnt really the right word- it's all legit- but if the above is talking about practicality, then a lot of it isnt. And dont get me wrong, it's one of the most interesting things to study (math and physical sciences are most interesting of STEM to me). But a lot of it is learning for knowledge sake, 'in the clouds' so to speak, not totally different than philosophy in the humanities. Im talking about pure mathematics, not applied.

Dont get me wrong, some theoretical developments in math can lead to practical consequences far down the road, but when we're talking about whether pi and e are transcendental, whether Fermat's Last Theorem is true, whether under the axioms of ZFC there exists a set whose cardinality is greater than that of the integers but less than that of the reals....that basically doesnt affect the world. But it is interesting to know. And its 'use' I guess is primarily to teach it to others, who may go on to teach it, and rinse and repeat.

Good points.

[TheHeel]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Wasn't talking about you. I have 0 people on ignore, my skin is thikk. Was referring to the person who asked Hairy the question.

I was genuinely curious. I wasn’t looking for a fight.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Who is spending $150k on an undergrad degree. I’m not arguing the point, I’m questioning the value and risk of saying that to kids.

Do you think you’re singular and detrimental “college or military” upbringing is being carried forward in the overly simplified language you use around secondary education?

If you're going to an out of state school, you're paying $150k easily. I ended up with ~144k and I graduated almost 10 years ago.

Not really because I have a better career than 90% of people because of it. I see the value now. Could I have been better off going into the trades, maybe?

[jcardstore]

I think realistically, the only difference in the trades would be after 10 years you're probably on the verge of having your own company. Especially if you're doing something in demand like electrical or hvac

Then having your own company comes with all kinds of other issues.

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I’m the first one to admit my degree is completely worthless. It didn’t even get me a job. I have a BS in business management and I got hired as a programmer.

I spent 4 years partying and having an absolute blast. It was 100% worth what I paid.

That being said, it was drilled into me from day 1 that I would be going to college or the military. There was no other option. If I could go back I’d probably go into a trade instead but such is life. I make great money, have a laughably easy job at a fortune 100 company with great benefits and work life balance. It’s nice and safe and easy and that works for me

The bolded is my point.

When kids/people believe there's no other option it kills their imagination/creativity.

That's why I'm huge on "give it a shot".

I'd never limit my kids imagination/creativity.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Blazed

The bolded is my point.

When kids/people believe there's no other option it kills their imagination/creativity.

That's why I'm huge on "give it a shot".

I'd never limit my kids imagination/creativity.

I agree that you shouldn't limit creativity and you should lay out all the options.

I also think that most people's creativity is worthless in the market. Being a creator is extremely difficult because there's no guarantee anyone is going to care about your content.

There are millions of people writing books and papers and articles etc... and only a handful ever get any real traction.

College is the best option for the most people

[Blazed]

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

I don’t know you. Is this your bit, your routine on the boards? It needs work. Too obvious. Not working for you.

Just write “OK, boomer” to me and get it over with. I get it. I get your little bit. It’s clever. Really, it is. No one’s done it before. It works better when you appear slightly more worldly.

This is a weird character you are workshopping. Not sure it’s saying about you what you think it is.

It's not a "bit".

You grew up in a different world, pre-technology.

Older generations can't relate.

Example, before computers, internet and cellphones, what did older generations do all day at work when they were sitting at their desk?

I can't relate to that because I grew up in the technology era.

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Your sentence structure? Sucks.

You didn't use it right. Fixed it for you. Now you see why it works.

Next lesson is going to cost you.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

I’m the first one to admit my degree is completely worthless. It didn’t even get me a job. I have a BS in business management and I got hired as a programmer.

I spent 4 years partying and having an absolute blast. It was 100% worth what I paid.

That being said, it was drilled into me from day 1 that I would be going to college or the military. There was no other option. If I could go back I’d probably go into a trade instead but such is life. I make great money, have a laughably easy job at a fortune 100 company with great benefits and work life balance. It’s nice and safe and easy and that works for me

Originally Posted by jcardstore

If you're going to an out of state school, you're paying $150k easily. I ended up with ~144k and I graduated almost 10 years ago.

Not really because I have a better career than 90% of people because of it. I see the value now. Could I have been better off going into the trades, maybe?

You paid $144K for a degree that you don't use.
You stated, if you could go back, you'd go into trades.

I don't see those as positive outcomes though the end result seems to have worked for you. I'm not sure you would openly admit, but putting kids in the position you were put in and expecting positive results is not logical.

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by Blazed

It's not a "bit".

You grew up in a different world, pre-technology.

Older generations can't relate.

Example, before computers, internet and cellphones, what did older generations do all day at work when they were sitting at their desk?

I can't relate to that because I grew up in the technology era.

How old do you think I am? I had computers almost my whole life.

I use every bit of technology available, adopt everything immediately.

I'm not a top-hat wearing man of means who made his hay in the oil fields.

You can't say "Hollywood is fake" and not have me think you are shockingly unworldly.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

I was genuinely curious. I wasn’t looking for a fight.

Well….that’s not how you get a response. Now he’s sitting there bewildered that someone was being civil.