Panini America Announces Plan to Address Kobe Bryant Autograph Redemptions

[ClipsandVols]

Really quite baffled by this. I think it should have gone:

Step 1: Fulfill on card redemptions you have in hand based on date of redemption.

Step 2: Fulfill sticker redemptions based on date of redemption.

Step 3: Offer customers a choice of sticker auto or points until you run out of stickers.

Step 4: Fulfill remaining redemption requests based on value/date of redemption.

Step 5: Give copious amounts of Panini points to anyone left or who redeems after today.

Step 6: Sell this Mosaic product on dutch auction starting at $10k. It is Panini after all.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[doubledribble]

Have a 2019-20 Optic signatures series holo outstanding...fingers crossed for an auto. Wish they provided information on what auto sets/years are being filled with the remaining autos, sticker or on-card.

[TimBuckTwo]

Sold a Threads Kobe auto a few years back. Could only get $85 for it at the time.

Wish I had that sumbitch now !

[Hateredemption]

This pack so bad .What’s unfair replacement

[hermanotarjeta]

What sucks is Poopnini will probably back door a lot of these packs eventually on the open market. You will likely see certain dealers with a bunch of these unopened packs for sale.

Lesson learned - never, EVER trust a redemption card. EVER.

[thecardscout]

Panini is a bad bad bad bad company. I can not wait until the NBA wakes up.

[Chryghst]

I don’t have much to add on this particular topic, but I am still confused about redemptions generally. They seem like a horrible business practice for Panini, and horribly inefficient as well. If a player is unable to sign in time for a product’s deadline (which I’m certain is weeks or months before release), then surely he should complete ALL of his signings as immediately as possible. In all likelihood this will still be in advance of release, and if they are in a stack in Panini’s offices, should be sent out individually as they are redeemed.

If a player refuses to sign over some contract dispute, and panini includes him in the set as a redemption, then the player possesses all negotiating power over panini as his autographs have been promised to customers.

If panini has arranged a contract for a certain number of signatures as they seem to do rather than by calendar year or product, and redemptions are filled on a irregular basis, then how do they monitor how many signatures they have received? And how many more labour hours are required to support this system?

So not only are redemptions terrible business, they’re also incredibly inefficient. I think we underestimate what an absolute nightmare it would be to chase down players and get them to sign redemptions on a regular basis, especially once they are no longer playing the sport. It just makes so much more sense to design contracts around a per signature/per product basis, and if a player is unable to meet a ‘first’ signing deadline, to have them meet a ‘second’ release deadline to insure that all autographed cards are printed, signed and serial numbered in Panini’s offices before the product goes live (or in full immediately afterwards). There should be some monetary deduction for each sequential missed deadline included in the contract. It would save Panini a ton of time, labour and money. And it would be better for customers, which would also save Panini a ton of time, labour, and money.

I also don’t understand the methodology under which redemptions are filled on an ongoing basis. Let’s assume RJ Barrett and Romeo Langford have the same number of autographs in a given set. If this number is 100, and RJ is live in a product, then he has supplied 100 autographs. If Romero is a redemption, then he should also supply Panini with 100 autographs. If instead these are fulfilled 10 at a time to meet redemptions, and not all 100 cards are redeemed, then he has supplied fewer autographs than RJ Barrett, who has autographs in unopened boxes which have still been supplied. The players would then ALWAYS be incentivised to be redemptions, because they would have to provide fewer autographs for each product. Panini therefore has to dedicate more labour hours to categorising, totalling, and tracking redeemed autographs for each product, and tracking players down outside of their typical product release schedule. One would think that Panini would make every possible effort to avoid this.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by dkcardman

These All should have been called 'mamba' parallels. Not snakeskin.

I agree with you there.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

what was the value of the card BEFORE he passed? I hear a lot of whining and bitching in this thread of people trying to play it both ways.

If he was alive and signing for the next 50 years, you'd have your auto but it would probably only be worth $250

They went out of their way to create these special cards that you'll probably be able to sell for at least $500

You're all whining about Scenario C, where you obtained the auto BEFORE he passed and are able to sell it AFTER, which is conveniently the only case in which you are up thousands of dollars. seriously, be happy you're getting anything. money is important, but it always brings out the worst in people

They were not going to honor post-death prices with the replacements, too many unrealistic expectations.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

The other thing to remember about the Kobe Estate is Vanessa controls what can and cannot be done. Even the Lakers got her permission to wear those Mamba Jersey’s

Ding ding ding.

When we said months back that it probably would be a special set created one of the first caveats we were hearing that Kobe's marketing team and Vanessa would have to approve anything that is done.

For some that wanted an elaborate set of just Kobe that was not going to happen. Vanessa can authorize that at a later set as the Kobe Master Set and insure more profitability for the long term valuation of his name.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Chryghst

I don’t have much to add on this particular topic, but I am still confused about redemptions generally. They seem like a horrible business practice for Panini, and horribly inefficient as well. If a player is unable to sign in time for a product’s deadline (which I’m certain is weeks or months before release), then surely he should complete ALL of his signings as immediately as possible. In all likelihood this will still be in advance of release, and if they are in a stack in Panini’s offices, should be sent out individually as they are redeemed.

If a player refuses to sign over some contract dispute, and panini includes him in the set as a redemption, then the player possesses all negotiating power over panini as his autographs have been promised to customers.

If panini has arranged a contract for a certain number of signatures as they seem to do rather than by calendar year or product, and redemptions are filled on a irregular basis, then how do they monitor how many signatures they have received? And how many more labour hours are required to support this system?

So not only are redemptions terrible business, they’re also incredibly inefficient. I think we underestimate what an absolute nightmare it would be to chase down players and get them to sign redemptions on a regular basis, especially once they are no longer playing the sport. It just makes so much more sense to design contracts around a per signature/per product basis, and if a player is unable to meet a ‘first’ signing deadline, to have them meet a ‘second’ release deadline to insure that all autographed cards are printed, signed and serial numbered in Panini’s offices before the product goes live (or in full immediately afterwards). There should be some monetary deduction for each sequential missed deadline included in the contract. It would save Panini a ton of time, labour and money. And it would be better for customers, which would also save Panini a ton of time, labour, and money.

I also don’t understand the methodology under which redemptions are filled on an ongoing basis. Let’s assume RJ Barrett and Romeo Langford have the same number of autographs in a given set. If this number is 100, and RJ is live in a product, then he has supplied 100 autographs. If Romero is a redemption, then he should also supply Panini with 100 autographs. If instead these are fulfilled 10 at a time to meet redemptions, and not all 100 cards are redeemed, then he has supplied fewer autographs than RJ Barrett, who has autographs in unopened boxes which have still been supplied. The players would then ALWAYS be incentivised to be redemptions, because they would have to provide fewer autographs for each product. Panini therefore has to dedicate more labour hours to categorising, totalling, and tracking redeemed autographs for each product, and tracking players down outside of their typical product release schedule. One would think that Panini would make every possible effort to avoid this.

Far as the bolded part Panini is not putting much time, labor, or money. They FedEx the cards or stickers to the player or a rep and they come back. They will at times hold signings with players, but none of the companies hold as many signings as they used to. It is now more in the hands of the players, they dont have time or ability to get everyone in Corporate offices and signings. As far as incentivizing the players to sign, it does not work when you take away the money. Players just say heck with it or then say ok I will sign and then whoops lose the cards or whoops damage the cards. Then accuse a player of doing it on purpose and you have a Players Association after it. The PA and the League control things more than people realize and this bit another company in the butt hard. We have sat at a signing for card companies and had a player stop halfway thru sticker sheets and say maybe some other time. We have had a player take the cards and sign 20% and say pay me double I will do the rest. There was a HOFer with an entire Exquisite Run that held it hostage for over a year. Every single time the PA and the league backed the player.

[ninjacookies]

Would be hilarious and the most Panini move ever if they filled these substitute Mosaic packs with......Kobe redemptions.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Ding ding ding.

When we said months back that it probably would be a special set created one of the first caveats we were hearing that Kobe's marketing team and Vanessa would have to approve anything that is done.

For some that wanted an elaborate set of just Kobe that was not going to happen. Vanessa can authorize that at a later set as the Kobe Master Set and insure more profitability for the long term valuation of his name.

But they are including commemorative Kobe cards within the packs.

We don't know the details of the contact, but I have to imagine that if they can make some generic chrome set to pass out one at a time that they could have have an all Kobe set to pass out.

Either way. You had a Kobe auto due to you, which is a special thing now. It's being replace by more parallels of a 2nd tier brand.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by tjforce

But they are including commemorative Kobe cards within the packs.

We don't know the details of the contact, but I have to imagine that if they can make some generic chrome set to pass out one at a time that they could have have an all Kobe set to pass out.

Either way. You had a Kobe auto due to you, which is a special thing now. It's being replace by more parallels of a 2nd tier brand.

A chrome set with a Kobe here or there inside of another set is one thing.

A stand-alone Kobe set with Patches, Shoes, Cut Autos, and more that is done like Chronicles mixed with Flawless is a whole another ballgame and this situation lets that be kept alive at a date that Vanessa and the Mamba team wants to go that route.

Either way you had an autograph that if a tragic event would not have occurred would not have skyrocketed in value. It is being replaced for many people with a Kobe autograph and for others the options would have been

1) Replacements equal to mid-January prices
2) Points
3) a Pack like this.

Most people I believe would not choose 1 or 2 based on what the rare packs (not second tier) go for on the aftermarket these days.

[Mrhenrychan]

No matter what the customer loses. I remember asking somebody at Panini about my Kobe redemptions and I remember saying I’ll be happy with a Zion graph, Luka graph or 30,000 panini points. He just laughed...

[thekiddfan]

30000 points is quite a stretch no?

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Mrhenrychan

No matter what the customer loses. I remember asking somebody at Panini about my Kobe redemptions and I remember saying I’ll be happy with a Zion graph, Luka graph or 30,000 panini points. He just laughed...

That isnt a bad ask for your Kobe NT Auto Patch /10.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by thekiddfan

30000 points is quite a stretch no?

Just a bit.

[thenashcollecto]

What were Kobe autos worth prior to the tragedy? Not that long ago he had signed so much they were getting close to worthless. I remember in 2012 you were annoyed by a Kobe case hit of nt and there were 2 in almost every case of gold standard.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by thenashcollecto

What were Kobe autos worth prior to the tragedy? Not that long ago he had signed so much they were getting close to worthless. I remember in 2012 you were annoyed by a Kobe case hit of nt and there were 2 in almost every case of gold standard.

2010 Kobe NT Auto Dual Patch /30 Sold for $140 last November

Some of the other Kobe NTs /25 and up were in the $130-150 range

Certified /25 $99

Elite /25 $88

Gold Standard /40 $126

Prizm $105-129

Court King 1/1 Auto $1200

Opulence /79 $108

2003-04 Ultimate BGS 9 $350

Flawless Auto /25 $205

Kobe Eminence Diamond Auto /10 $1800

Exquisite Enshrinements /25 $2200

Flawless USA Auto /15 $456.70

Select Gold Prizm /10 $400

[thenashcollecto]

Thanks for taking the time on that. So it was basically flat for years and then just really went nuts outside of higher end which had edged up a bit it looks like? That’s really interesting. One hell of a spike.

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

2010 Kobe NT Auto Dual Patch /30 Sold for $140 last November

Other Kobe NTs /25 and up were in the $130-150 range

Certified /25 $99

Elite /25 $88

Gold Standard /40 $126

Prizm $105-129

Court King 1/1 Auto $1200

Opulence /79 %108

2003-04 Ultimate BGS 9 $350

Flawless Auto /25 $205

Kobe Eminence Diamond Auto /10 $1800

Exquisite Enshrinements /25 $2200

Flawless USA Auto /15 $456.70

Select Gold Prizm /10 $400

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by thenashcollecto

Thanks for taking the time on that. So it was basically flat for years and then just really went nuts outside of higher end which had edged up a bit it looks like? That’s really interesting. One hell of a spike.

There were more obviously. A logo went for $15000 from NT pre-death.

Number of #8 of whatever cards went very affordable and now are $$$$$, everything has jumped but those took massive leaps.

[Ra3]

Originally Posted by thenashcollecto

Thanks for taking the time on that. So it was basically flat for years and then just really went nuts outside of higher end which had edged up a bit it looks like? That’s really interesting. One hell of a spike.

I think even the higher end stuff has shot up a ton since Kobe’s death...

[hairyangryfella]

I remember several years ago they were $80-100, not an especially desirable thing because Panini were PUMPING them out.

My one, from October 2018:
2017-18 Panini Vanguard Kobe Bryant Beyond the Scripts AUTO /25 Redemption
$219.50 USD

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Ra3

I think even the higher end stuff has shot up a ton since Kobe’s death...

That USA has gone from less than $500 to over $6000