Right now, where do you rank Lebron all time?

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

More than anything I’m glad I was able to witness the 2nd half of MJs career and the totality of Lebrons. Both are truly special to watch play the game.

This. 100%.

[ThoseBackPages]

who takes the baton from Lebron?

KD? Giannis?

Curry? no denying he's a great shooter, but that style of NBA is boring AF to me

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

This. 100%.

Even though I have Lebron as the greatest overall NBA player of all-time, I understand it’s a coin-flip between him and MJ and there’s no wrong answer.

What I don’t believe is close at all is the fact that MJ completely changed the NBA. I don’t think one athlete has had a bigger impact on sports other than Jackie Robinson.

So while my opinion is that Lebron is the greatest to play the sport, I think MJ is the greatest thing to ever happen to the sport. I think he’s the greatest thing by such a wide margin that in the totality of the sport of basketball MJ is sort of a on a pedestool that no other player can ever reach, regardless of on the court accomplishments. In that context MJ is the GOAT and will never be touched.

There is NO Lebron without all the greats before him, and that most certainly includes Jordan.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

who takes the baton from Lebron?

KD? Giannis?

Curry? no denying he's a great shooter, but that style of NBA is boring AF to me

KD.

Simply because he's already got the accolades and the ring. And multiple scoring titles.

But I absolutely despise the path his career took late, and I think it will wear on his legacy after it's all said and done.

Was originally going to say Kawhi but just a shame how things came to a sudden ugly halt. He had/has the all around game that could make him a legend.

[ljandkg]

Originally Posted by motu79

Jordan #1
LeBron #2

Have got to watch both of their full careers. I mean, I was 5 when Jordan hit the league, but I got to watch him all the way through High School.

Both of these players are must watch to me when they're on. Only 2 I can think of when it comes to individually. There have been better teams and great players on those teams, but individually watching, it's MJ and LBJ for me. Not even close with anyone else.

I agree. I was 11 when MJ made the league and saw him dominate. He was amazing. There are pros and cons with every great player but in recent times no one has been as unstoppable as Lebron. For me they're 1 and 2 or 2 and 1. They could both dominate games, yet in different ways.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Even though I have Lebron as the greatest overall NBA player of all-time, I understand it’s a coin-flip between him and MJ and there’s no wrong answer.

What I don’t believe is close at all is the fact that MJ completely changed the NBA. I don’t think one athlete has had a bigger impact on sports other than Jackie Robinson.

So while my opinion is that Lebron is the greatest to play the sport, I think MJ is the greatest thing to ever happen to the sport. I think he’s the greatest thing by such a wide margin that in the totality of the sport of basketball MJ is sort of a on a pedestool that no other player can ever reach, regardless of on the court accomplishments. In that context MJ is the GOAT and will never be touched.

There is NO Lebron without all the greats before him, and that most certainly includes Jordan.

Who's Jackie Robinson?

I bet most of the world has no idea.

[WillC]

Definitely at least top 5 (he has to be above Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe etc) at this point.

I think he’s now got an argument to be ahead of Kareem. I’m still a little uncomfortable putting him ahead of Wilt and Russell. So I have LeBron ranked 4th but expect he’ll retire as the 2nd greatest player of all-time when it’s all said and done.

[davechappelle]

1. MJ
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Lebron
4. Magic
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Bill Russell
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaq
10. Kobe

[cienpelusas]

I still find incredible how this debate always gets down to MJ-LJ (reasonable) but people forget about such icons as Russell, Kareem, Magic...

Those were crazy OGs on their own.

[hofcollector2]

How in the heck is Lebron more athletic than Jordan, lol. Has anyone watch Jordan dunk, or how fast he was. Jordan can do dunk moves than Lebron couldn't even fathom. And I'm not even going to start with who can stay in the air longer. Lebron being more athletic or way more athletic is false.

[cienpelusas]

Originally Posted by hofcollector2

How in the heck is Lebron more athletic than Jordan, lol. Has anyone watch Jordan dunk, or how fast he was. Jordan can do dunk moves than Lebron couldn't even fathom. And I'm not even going to start with who can stay in the air longer. Lebron being more athletic or way more athletic is false.

This is key to me and probably what makes it a hard decision to compare and pick one between them. Watching Jordan is special. LeBron has that ultra-built frame that can get him through a wall, but MJ could fly around the court, so agile, so fluid in all his moves, true that.

[BBallCT]

I'm surprised (and glad) to see results leaning towards #1 or 2.

I hedged with #3 because of guys like Kareem, Wilt and Russell (I do think LBJ surpassed Magic and Bird in term of overall dominance)

I'm happy with #2 and I would consider arguments for #1. Either way I think he's been the most dominant since MJ (sorry Kobe fans)

[6celtics33]

I want everyone who supports the idea that Lebron is so strong to really think about that the next time he gets a hard foul and lays on the ground for 5 minutes like he’s dead. Maybe his body is strong and his mind is feeble. I have no clue. And every time someone tells you MJ is only better because he never lost in the finals think about this...


MJ 5 MVP’s Lebron 4
MJ 6 Finals MVP’s Lebron 3
MJ 24-11 Finals record Lebron 18-27
MJ 10 scoring titles Lebron 1
MJ Def POY 88 Lebron n/a
MJ 9 1st Team All Defense Lebron 5
MJ 30.1 ppg NBA record
MJ 33.4 playoffs ppg NBA record
MJ 63 against Boston playoff record
MJ 41ppg against Phoenix. Finals record

So will Lebron pass his counting numbers? Yes Lebron is more durable. But who has done more with the time they were given? Not even a question.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

So will Lebron pass his counting numbers? Yes Lebron is more durable. But who has SCORED MORE POINTS with the time they were given? Not even a question.

FIFY.

[BlueXtreme]

Originally Posted by hofcollector2

And I'm not even going to start with who can stay in the air longer. Lebron being more athletic or way more athletic is false.

I saw something somewhere (I think it was sports science) that the whole staying in the air longer and floating is an illusion. It’s impossible. There is a reason he looks like he hangs in the air. If you’re interested in that kind of stuff at all, I suggest watching it. It was pretty cool.
In fact.. I may go try to find it because I forget the exact reasoning behind it lol

[jr24ai3]

I have seen both MJ and Lebron play in their prime. I have MJ as 1, and Lebron as 2. It is impressive what Lebron has done. However, there are some other factors to consider. Yes, he has great stats in his 17th season. But I can't remember a time when I've seen such a lack of defense in the NBA. You probably have 25 teams averaging 100ppg. I know the 3 point shot has a big impact on the increase of scoring, but teams just play very little defense. It's much easier to rack up scoring/assist numbers today. Also, this league is very soft - no physicality at all. Jordan would be averaging 35-40ppg with this type of defense in his prime.

Another stat that is overrated is his 7 straight trips (probably going to be 8) to the finals. I know you can't control how good the other teams are, but the fact is that the east is extremely weak. When he had some true competition from Chicago, 3 of the years Rose was injured. Once he finally had to play real competition, he has a losing record. I believe if his teams were in the West, he probably makes 3 finals in 7 years. Still a very impressive feat.

One item I strongly consider is clutch performance in the finals. Lebron has a history of not making clutch shots in the final seconds of finals games. While he performs great for the first 47 minutes, it's still something I consider.

I still rank him #2, so I'm not "hating". There are just some overrated stats today.

[Nyfancam01]

Lebron IS and SHOULD BE #1 or #2 on every list.

I don't even respect or consider a list where James isn't already top 3 all time.

Btw: He's the GOAT. Greatest overall player of all time. Period.

[jcardstore]

You want to have Russell, Kareem, Wilt above LeBron that's arguable. To say Kobe is ahead of LeBron is objectively laughable and I really have never ever seen anybody put Duncan ahead of LeBron.

[Nyfancam01]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

You want to have Russell, Kareem, Wilt above LeBron that's arguable. To say Kobe is ahead of LeBron is objectively laughable and I really have never ever seen anybody put Duncan ahead of LeBron.

as a basketball great of all time... Duncan and kobe ahead of LEBRON JAMES? Lmao no damn way.

even if James didn't record another point or stat at all and retired now still no damn way! ridiculous. Just haters who will always claim their era was just soooo much better than the modern day players. James passed Kobe and Duncan years ago. His eyes have been on Magic and MJ IMO.

[Kingofkings1281]

Anyone not saying top 5 hasn’t been paying attention.

[apb4]

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

I was a huge fan of Bird, but he shouldn’t be higher than Lebron. Even he would say that.

I agree with this 100%. I loved Bird's game as well but it's hard to take anyone serious when they put him above Lebron simply because of longevity. One guy had 10 years of prime/elite play while the other guy is working on his 15th year. To make up those 5 years you better have been a far far far superior player and I think most would agree that is not the case.

[Sauceman]

Wow. If you can honestly type out that LeBron James is NOT a top 5 NBA player of all time...I don't even know what to say to you. Larry Bird better than LeBron James? What in the hell...Frustrating stuff here sometimes.

[Jasondr91]

I'll play along, here's how others support the believe that the Spurs long term success can be attributed to Pop and his "system".

Now before someone tunes out because these aren't known sports sites or links: When the outside world catches notice, isn't that a sign of success?

http://time.com/5125421/gregg-popovi...spurs-success/

One excert I found interesting: The Spurs eat together approximately as often as they play basketball together. First there are the team dinners, regular gatherings of all the players. Then there are smaller group dinners, handfuls of players getting together. Then there are the coaches’ dinners, which happen every night on the road before a game. Popovich plans them, picking the restaurants, sometimes two a night, to explore. These are not meals to be eaten and forgotten. At the end of the season, each coach gets a leather-bound keepsake book containing the menus and wine labels from every dinner.

https://wideangle.com/build-a-coaching-culture/

1. Belief in the team: coaches create cultures that put the team first. Managers create a culture about the individual then get out of their way.

” The Spurs do things together. There’s a lot of respect for everybody, and everybody is expected to give his or her opinion and help the group. It’s a unique philosophy of working together and facing adversity together as well. This is family first, basketball club second.” – Yahoo Sports

http://www.businessinsider.com/gregg...success-2016-3

http://www.businessinsider.com/gregg...players-2016-2

But I think being honest with people is great. Somebody's doing well — you tell them they did well. But you don't have a different system for Duncan, [Tony] Parker, and [Manu] Ginobili than you do for number 12, 13, and 14. And a lot of people are afraid of that. You want the best players to like you for all the reasons. It won't work. It'll bite you in the bum after awhile. You need to have the same standards for everyone. You can treat people differently because each one is different, but they all have to march to the same drummer, to the same standards."

"If you're on Duncan's fanny or Parker, [other players] see it, and they know it's fair and they wanna play for you. And it just compiles geometrically, and it just keeps going and you end up having a really good situation."


Now, it's easy to scour the internet for stories on why a coach won multiple NBA titles is a success, and Pop being blessed with the greatest ever to play his position , his entire career in San Antonio.....but how many coaches get blessed with multiple stars and have them buy into a system of play, and get folks to stay their entire careers on one team?

“The Spurs are good at what they do. They are good at finding the right guys who will fit the system, first of all,” says Diaw. “That’s a tribute to RC and the scouting department finding those guys like Manu playing in Europe, even Kawhi or Jonathon Simmons and Danny Green. And then it’s having the right system for them. Those players who were not blossoming somewhere else but are doing great here is because of the system. It’s easier to play in that system and contribute because of your role—you know what you gotta do and Pop makes it comfortable for those players.” -Boris Diaw former player


Do I believe Duncan himself buying into the system caused others afterwards to follow suit? Not at all, Duncan does deserve credit there. He's awesome, the best at his position. Another NC product we are proud of. Ask Duncan himself who deserves the praise for his success and his teams' success....
It's not an alien thought to say San Antonio's long term success is because players buy/bought into the system of coaching Popovich teaches. Well, I guess it is hard to comprehend....on Blowout. Imagine that....

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

You want to have Russell, Kareem, Wilt above LeBron that's arguable. To say Kobe is ahead of LeBron is objectively laughable and I really have never ever seen anybody put Duncan ahead of LeBron.

You know full well the downside of Lebron. Kobe is out of the question for me. But as far as Duncan goes, it’s all upside. So maybe people recognize the upside of Lebron being higher than Duncan but would rather have Duncan due to the downside of Lebron in the overall scheme of things.

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by apb4

I agree with this 100%. I loved Bird's game as well but it's hard to take anyone serious when they put him above Lebron simply because of longevity. One guy had 10 years of prime/elite play while the other guy is working on his 15th year. To make up those 5 years you better have been a far far far superior player and I think most would agree that is not the case.

The extra years puts Lebron ahead. But I would take Bird’s first 9 years over just about anybody.