Top 10 promising talent in the NBA

[drobfan8]

I like Lonzo a lot. I think he actually makes his team better. His shot will come.

[daeve]

The people comparing Simmons to Lebron/Giannis are probably the same types who were comparing Wiggins to Kobe/LeBron back when he was the can't-miss #1 pick/'Future'/ ROTY favorite.

Here, this article just turned 2 years old...http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/kobe...me-moves-video

A similarly ridiculously talented player with great physical measurements who had question-marks and has seemingly flatlined before his 23rd birthday. A 'scorer' but not a great shooter, and never a good defender, his game was very 'one-note' and it's now catching up to him. That being said, he's still young and his defense is improving this year [though his O is taking a step backwards] - but ask the people who were buying up his High-end stuff back in 2014 how they feel now, I don't think they'll feel very good about it. To be a star in the NBA you need to have both unreal physical ability/measurements and also the drive to improve/be great. Simmons has the advantage of being a good defender right away, but I do wonder why his offensive game is so lacking when he had a whole year with the coaching staff/film/pro advantages and he still can't shoot worth a darn. Big red flag imo.

[tmar214]

Originally Posted by daeve

The people comparing Simmons to Lebron/Giannis are probably the same types who were comparing Wiggins to Kobe/LeBron back when he was the can't-miss #1 pick/'Future'/ ROTY favorite.

.

Other than both being annointed future stars Wiggins and Simmons have nothing in common. Most of Wiggins hype was based off expectation coming in to the nba. Simmons hype is based off him having an all time great season for a rookie.

The Simmons, lebron, Giannis comparisons make quite a bit of sense considering none of them can shoot but they are all efficient scorers, who impact the game in many ways.

Btw when is scoring over 16 a game on over 50% shooting while averaging over 7 assists considered a weak offensive game ? Shooting is only 1 part of the overall package and a lot of guys who can't shoot (especially someone who's almost 7 ft tall) are strong offensive players.

[drobfan8]

Daeve you seem to not understand that those writers need clicks..

Saying outlandish things is the way to get that. You either need to exaggerate one way or the other.

Simmons will not get close to LeBron. If he becomes a 5 time All Star I'll be shocked.

I remember the 90s how many guys were the "next Jordan" and you bet I bought the magazine.

People love hype. It keeps the NBA in the news.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by tmar214

Other than both being annointed future stars Wiggins and Simmons have nothing in common. Most of Wiggins hype was based off expectation coming in to the nba. Simmons hype is based off him having an all time great season for a rookie.

The Simmons, lebron, Giannis comparisons make quite a bit of sense considering none of them can shoot but they are all efficient scorers, who impact the game in many ways.

Btw when is scoring over 16 a game on over 50% shooting while averaging over 7 assists considered a weak offensive game ? Shooting is only 1 part of the overall package and a lot of guys who can't shoot (especially someone who's almost 7 ft tall) are strong offensive players.

Well said..

Personally I'll take winning over numbers. I like Simmons temperament so far. I mean, we're talking about a rookie here. The dude is doing crazy things.

[patchgenie]

1. ben simmons
2. kris dunn
3. royce o'neale
4. fred vanvleet
5. thon maker
6. trey burke
7. jamal murray
8. davis bertrans
9. tyrone wallace
10. dragan bender

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Daeve you seem to not understand that those writers need clicks..

Saying outlandish things is the way to get that. You either need to exaggerate one way or the other.

Simmons will not get close to LeBron. If he becomes a 5 time All Star I'll be shocked.

I remember the 90s how many guys were the "next Jordan" and you bet I bought the magazine.

People love hype. It keeps the NBA in the news.

If he stays in the East, he should be, at least, a 5 time All-Star. He should've been one this year and if he keeps it up, he will be one next year. Plus, East PGs would start declining/have already decline as he enters his prime (Lowry, Walker, Wall).

But yeah, he's no LeBron. I mean, there's nothing wrong with not being as good as a Top 5 player of all-time.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by tmar214

Other than both being annointed future stars Wiggins and Simmons have nothing in common. Most of Wiggins hype was based off expectation coming in to the nba. Simmons hype is based off him having an all time great season for a rookie.

The Simmons, lebron, Giannis comparisons make quite a bit of sense considering none of them can shoot but they are all efficient scorers, who impact the game in many ways.

Btw when is scoring over 16 a game on over 50% shooting while averaging over 7 assists considered a weak offensive game ? Shooting is only 1 part of the overall package and a lot of guys who can't shoot (especially someone who's almost 7 ft tall) are strong offensive players.

Lol I like how you just double-down on the ridiculous LeBron/Giannis comp.

Let's look at their shooting #'s then since you seem really keen to group them all together.

Rookie Year:
Age 18/19 : 29% 3P, 75% FT, .488 TS%, and 2.4 OWS
Age 18/19 : 34% 3P, 68% FT, .518 TS%, and 0.1 OWS
Age 21 ----: 0% 3P, 56% FT, .542 TS%, and so far 1.7 OWS

So there's an honest look at their rookie shooting #'s. LeBron/Giannis both have December BDays, so they started their first months as 18 yo's - LeBron coming in with a lot of experience against the best HS competition in the world, and Giannis coming in with hardly any experience against good competition, neither played in college. Simmons is working with a year at a major Div-1 university and a year with Pro coaching/film/experience. Neither LeBron nor Giannis were good outside shooters coming into the league but they at least had enough of something to work with, Simmons has nada. Giannis/LeBron were also decent FT shooters given their age/experience, Simmons is not. Simmons has the best TS% so there's that, but again, he's 21 and has been involved with the team for a whole year before having to play. His team is also far better than what Giannis/LeBron were working with and he has the benefit of playing next to Embiid, an AS Starter and the likely DPOY.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Daeve you seem to not understand that those writers need clicks..

Saying outlandish things is the way to get that. You either need to exaggerate one way or the other.

Simmons will not get close to LeBron. If he becomes a 5 time All Star I'll be shocked.

I remember the 90s how many guys were the "next Jordan" and you bet I bought the magazine.

People love hype. It keeps the NBA in the news.

I do understand that, I'm very familiar with clickbait and how writers/advertisers make money [I live with one].

ESPN has mentioned Magic and Simmons how many times this year? Just ridiculous. Glad you are admitting that BS and LJ are not anywhere near the same though.

[tjforce]

I love how the few ppl here bashing Simmons love to talk about his lack of on outside shot, but won't give credence to the fact that he probably deserves to make an All NBA defensive team as a rookie while having an all around efficient year on offense.

That sounds like a stretch? He's 3rd of any player in the NBA in Defensive Win Shares. 4th in Defensive Box Plus Minus.

"Yea but advanced analytics don't tell everything". Agreed, so let's look at his stats: Amongst all Guards, he's 2nd in rebounds per game, 1st in blocks per game and 4th in steals per game.

Oh ya, and on offense to go along with the fact that he is 4th in the league on assists he also leads all guards in shooting percentage.

But let's go ahead and only focus on his outside shooting.

[tylermckinzie]

Personally, here's how I like the. Age, potential, everything factored in. Basically, if I were a GM, and the team below me called, would I keep my player or make the trade? Sure, I devalue "fit" in my rankings, but talent wins out.

1. Ben Simmons
2. Devin Booker
3. Nikola Jokic
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Donovan Mitchell
6. Brandon Ingram
7. Lauri Markkanen
8. Lonzo Ball
9. Jamal Murray
10. Clint Capela
11. Andrew Wiggins
12. Jaylen Brown
13. Dennis Smith Jr.
14. Dejounte Murray
15. De'Aaron Fox
16. Steven Adams
17. Otto Porter Jr.
18. Gary Harris
19. Josh Jackson
20. Kyle Kuzma
21. Myles Turner
22. Jusuf Nurkic
23. Dario Saric
24. Deangelo Russell
25. Kris Dunn

I know Aaron Gordon isn't on my list, but for me he just isn't as good as the sum of his parts are.... I just don't see it with him. And I can't rank Markelle Fultz until I know what the heck is going on.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Simmons will not get close to LeBron. If he becomes a 5 time All Star I'll be shocked.

I remember the 90s how many guys were the "next Jordan" and you bet I bought the magazine.

And then magazines said the same thing about LeBron in early 2000s, and everyone who read it laughed and said they'd be surprised if LeBron ended up being a five time All-Star. KD was too skinny, Curry too fragile, etc.

Simmons shows a lot of promise. A lot of the guys on these lists do. I think it's ridiculous to anoint anyone as the next generational talent, but equally ridiculous to write up-and-comers off before giving them a few seasons to grow.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by tjforce

I love how the few ppl here bashing Simmons love to talk about his lack of on outside shot, but won't give credence to the fact that he probably deserves to make an All NBA defensive team as a rookie while having an all around efficient year on offense.

That sounds like a stretch? He's 3rd of any player in the NBA in Defensive Win Shares. 4th in Defensive Box Plus Minus.

"Yea but advanced analytics don't tell everything". Agreed, so let's look at his stats: Amongst all Guards, he's 2nd in rebounds per game, 1st in blocks per game and 4th in steals per game.

Oh ya, and on offense to go along with the fact that he is 4th in the league on assists he also leads all guards in shooting percentage.

But let's go ahead and only focus on his outside shooting.

You really don't even need advanced analytics to tell me Ben Simmons is an elite defender. Just watch the games. He's a lock down one on one defender, seamlessly switches off on screens, has excellent ability to anticipate passes and turn them into points off turnovers. There's also a lot that he does on offense that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. It's easy for anyone to sit at a computer and find a couple cherry picked stats out of the 9000 measured advanced metrics and say, "He's not that good." Just as easily as you can put these rookies in the same class as all time greats, you can find stats that put them in the basement of the league... neither of which are really indicative of anything once you realize how easily they can be manipulated to fit a narrative. Simmons is already an all-star caliber player... today. Barring extraordinary circumstance or injury, there's no reason to assume that he will regress from that.

[OGCNYC]

^ Absolutely, people nit pick everything, even LeBron coming into the league had people saying he had no jumpshot.

I'll say it again and again, as long as Simmons is healthy, he is a good jumpshot away from taking over LeBrons throne. The King himself said it as well, and I myself see it after 35 years of coaching and watching players play.
Even without a jump shot, he's going to be a top 5 player in his prime. With a good jumpshot? It's game over.

[RedMikeC]

Originally Posted by patchgenie

1. ben simmons
2. kris dunn
3. royce o'neale
4. fred vanvleet
5. thon maker
6. trey burke
7. jamal murray
8. davis bertrans
9. tyrone wallace
10. dragan bender

What kind of list is this?

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by patchgenie

1. ben simmons
2. kris dunn
3. royce o'neale
4. fred vanvleet
5. thon maker
6. trey burke
7. jamal murray
8. davis bertrans
9. tyrone wallace
10. dragan bender

I don't know what kind of list this is..... But Royce O'Neale for the win!

[BlueXtreme]

Originally Posted by OGCNYC

^ Absolutely, people nit pick everything, even LeBron coming into the league had people saying he had no jumpshot.

I'll say it again and again, as long as Simmons is healthy, he is a good jumpshot away from taking over LeBrons throne. The King himself said it as well, and I myself see it after 35 years of coaching and watching players play.
Even without a jump shot, he's going to be a top 5 player in his prime. With a good jumpshot? It's game over.

Giannis will be the one who takes the throne. Simmons is great. Not taking anything away from him. But I see it Giannis and then Simmons personally.

[BBallCT]

Originally Posted by patchgenie

1. ben simmons
2. kris dunn
3. royce o'neale
4. fred vanvleet
5. thon maker
6. trey burke
7. jamal murray
8. davis bertrans
9. tyrone wallace
10. dragan bender

Bender's intriguing, had a few solid games recently

[ballhawkdawk]

32/7/11/1/1 for Simmons last night, and two clutch go ahead free throws at the end of the game. The notion that this guy, who is doing these things as a rookie, doesn't have a reasonable chance at becoming an all-time great is stupid.

[ShtHairMcGee]

I agree with everyone about Ingram. I agree because I'm a Lakers fan. I agree because I own a boatload of Ingram Prizm. #Facts

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[ninjacookies]

The Simmons/Lebron comp was simply the closest comparison people could make, and I don't see how it's completely outlandish.

- You have to look at draft pedigree. Both are/were 1st overall picks and projected generational talents with HUGE expectations coming out the gate

- Both were/are giant, oversized point guards with extreme athletic ability

- Both came into the league with a very questionable outside games. Granted, Lebron wasn't quite as handicapped as Simmons in that respect, he also was not touted for his jumper, either. Look at Lebron's rookie season shooting numbers. He was anything but efficient. But he also came fresh from high school.

- And most importantly, both had distribution skills and court vision that had not been seen in a long, long time, drawing Magic comps.


I'm not saying Simmons is ever going to be Lebron, I'm just saying I can see where the early comparisons stemmed from. This isn't a complete stretch of the imagination.


As for the early Wiggins' comp...yeah...that was bad. But a good chunk of that falls on Wiggins own shoulders. He's every bit the athlete that those other players are, but he just doesn't have 'it,' just like majority of draftees that never live up to expectation.