The Official NBA Regular Season Thread—-21/22 Edition

[RogerGodahell]

You're missing the context of the discussion. Which was an easy matchup for a 1 vs 8 seed. An 8 seed with a healthy Kawhi, PG, Powell and crew is not an easy 8 seed first round matchup for anyone.

That was the the context of the discussion. No one ever said PHO wouldn't/shouldn't beat them.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by daeve

Jokic 12-7-5-2-1 on 6-6 FG, good for a +22 vs the G-league Pacers so far tonight.


edit - we're in the 1st Q folks.

What is one quarter against a below-.400 team supposed to show anyone? Larger data sets mean more.

[ninjacookies]

Phoenix 'handled' the Clips 4-2 last season, and that was with a much healthier Kawhi.

They're not scaring Phoenix or providing them any sort of unsettling feeling. They'll be an easy of an out for them as the Lakeshow will be to anyone if they're somehow able to escape the play-in.

[RogerGodahell]

I could think of easier matchups for a 1 seed. Like a team without any of those 3 playing but i'm gonna let it go.

[ninjacookies]

We don't even know if Kawhi's playing.

PG13 in the playoffs? Like, have we completely disregarded what's happened the past 2 seasons? He may have actually been the primary reason why they've missed the finals. Dude's the consummate choke artist until proven otherwise.

I'd fear a squad like Minnesota far more than the Clips because there's no baked in expectations and dudes are playing with house money.

[AutoPatchRookie]

Noticed a lot of 30-day Jokic BIN listings suddenly end in the last 24 hours.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Top 15ish? Since when? It's odd seeing some of kneejerk takes after an otherwise meaningless regular season win vs a team both BO and the media at large have completely disregarded as a contender (Utah).

And seeing some of the Mavs fans suddenly tout the Clips as a scary proposition is odd. The same team they were denigrating the past 2 years as they struggled to maneuver past a team of basically one in the first round. The entire world watched as George Playoff Pee'd himself into one of the most laughable postseason performers of recent memory. Even IF Kawhi comes back, does anyone honestly expect him to be anywhere near even 80%, as he'll be almost a year removed from competitive activities?

Phoenix crushed this squad last year, and they seem to be even stronger this time around. Clips might present a challenge for any of the other WC squads, but the Suns have proven themselves in a different echelon until proven otherwise.

Legit only squad I think they'd feel some mental anguish over are the Warriors. But unless they flip a magical switch, both Curry and Klay aren't quite right, Green's availability continues being a floating questionmark, and their star center is done for the year.

I WANT to see Memphis push their buttons, but they're entirely too young, and the playoffs are a completely different beast.

You don't have healthy Kawhi and PG13 in the top ~15ish players? If Kawhi comes back 100% what he was, he's in the 5-8 range easy. PG13 in the 13-15 range, easy. I don't think either of those statements is shocking or out of line with where most people would rank them.

Now PG looked great last night, athleticism was there. Will Kawhi? Idk, but all I said was it'd "irk" Phx, which it would... regardless of whether Kawhi comes back at 80 or 90% what he was.

It is looking like Grizz/Dubs are the only ones who may give them trouble, but Dubs have a lot of question marks right now, and as the Celtics are proving, all it takes is getting hot at the right time - see also : Hawks last year.

[RogerGodahell]

The discussion was hypothetical if Kawhi plays in the playoffs or not. But would they have been an 8 seed if they played and were healthy during the regular season? Probably not. Therefore the Suns wouldn't be playing a true bottom feeder 8 seed in a 1v8 matchup. Almost identical to the East and 1 seed vs Brooklyn matuchup. Neither team at full strength are a true 8 seed caliber team. They're both much better than that.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

What is one quarter against a below-.400 team supposed to show anyone? Larger data sets mean more.

this is just the daily game thread... and in saying that, Pacers have made it a game again. sigh, Malone and "adjusting" - not his forte.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by daeve

You don't have healthy Kawhi and PG13 in the top ~15ish players? If Kawhi comes back 100% what he was, he's in the 5-8 range easy. PG13 in the 13-15 range, easy. I don't think either of those statements is shocking or out of line with where most people would rank them.

Now PG looked great last night, athleticism was there. Will Kawhi? Idk, but all I said was it'd "irk" Phx, which it would... regardless of whether Kawhi comes back at 80 or 90% what he was.

It is looking like Grizz/Dubs are the only ones who may give them trouble, but Dubs have a lot of question marks right now, and as the Celtics are proving, all it takes is getting hot at the right time - see also : Hawks last year.

In what metric or criteria is PG a top15 player

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by daeve

You don't have healthy Kawhi and PG13 in the top ~15ish players? If Kawhi comes back 100% what he was, he's in the 5-8 range easy. PG13 in the 13-15 range, easy. I don't think either of those statements is shocking or out of line with where most people would rank them.

Now PG looked great last night, athleticism was there. Will Kawhi? Idk, but all I said was it'd "irk" Phx, which it would... regardless of whether Kawhi comes back at 80 or 90% what he was.

It is looking like Grizz/Dubs are the only ones who may give them trouble, but Dubs have a lot of question marks right now, and as the Celtics are proving, all it takes is getting hot at the right time - see also : Hawks last year.

Fully healthy Kawhi is a top 10 player. But he's been out since June of last year, and we don't even know his status after yet another lower body injury. At this point both his legs should be bionic. There is no way he's anywhere near 100% if he somehow manages to make it back after the play-ins being thrusted into game action.

PG-13 is fringe top 20 if I'm being overly generous. Far too much talent leaguewide. Problem is, regardless how good he is in the regular season, he's going to be a roller coaster ride once April comes around. Inefficient shooter that will have the occasional big game but will shrink in the biggest moments. His postseason game is mentally capped.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

In what metric or criteria is PG a top15 player

4th in Raptor WAR, 8th in overall Raptor last year.

[daeve]

ahh there we go, Jokic getting slapped around like Jodi Foster in Taxi Driver in the paint, Malone sitting there like moss on stone, so Jokic reacts and gets T'd up and Indiana has all the momentum now - seriously this dude has a dud coach and a dud team without Murray/MPJ, I can't believe they're flirting with a .600 winning pct.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by daeve

4th in Raptor WAR, 8th in overall Raptor last year.

Payton Jr., Caruso, Poetl, and FVV are all top 15 in overall Raptor this year. I think this is where advanced metrics can cloud things.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by daeve

4th in Raptor WAR, 8th in overall Raptor last year.

So is Jae Crowder a top20 NBA player?

[daeve]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Payton Jr., Caruso, Poetl, and FVV are all top 15 in overall Raptor this year. I think this is where advanced metrics can cloud things.

Jokic, Gobert, Giannis were above him in WAR - you're right, a bunch of scrubs. We should scrap the metric.

Those 3 plus Embiid, Curry, Kawhi, Conley were above him in overall.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

So is Jae Crowder a top20 NBA player?

you asked "what metric" and I provided one. Really don't have the patience for the moron takes tonight dude

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by daeve

Jokic, Gobert, Giannis... a bunch of scrubs.

Glad someone finally said it.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by daeve

Jokic, Gobert, Giannis were above him in WAR - you're right, a bunch of scrubs. We should scrap the metric.

Those 3 plus Embiid, Curry, Kawhi, Conley were above him in overall.

Again, there's a time and place for certain metrics. We all know the above referenced players are top players. Because we've all had 2 eyes for the past half decade+. Nobody's going to argue FVV is a top 12 player just because he ranks there both overall and in WAR this year.

Yes, PG13 still offers great defense and rebounding for his position. But having 2 eyes still tells me he's a playoff choke artist who easily succumbs to media and game pressure. I don't need an advanced cheat sheet to tell me that.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by daeve

you asked "what metric" and I provided one. Really don't have the patience for the moron takes tonight dude

This is so rich coming from you.

Not surprised when you get challenged on a bad take you resort to the personal attacks. That just confirms you can’t actually back up your position.

Take it back to Reddit where you can easily fool all the rubes

[SK40]

Should be a good fourth quarter between the Celts and the Heat.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

This is so rich coming from you.

Not surprised when you get challenged on a bad take you resort to the personal attacks. That just confirms you can’t actually back up your position.

Take it back to Reddit where you can easily fool all the rubes

You challenged me to present anything showing PG as a top 15 player and I did. Now you're talking about Crowder for some reason, why? Because when I answered you and you were wrong, we have to go on some merry-go-around all the time. I'm over it - prove your point

[daeve]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Again, there's a time and place for certain metrics. We all know the above referenced players are top players. Because we've all had 2 eyes for the past half decade+. Nobody's going to argue FVV is a top 12 player just because he ranks there both overall and in WAR this year.

Yes, PG13 still offers great defense and rebounding for his position. But having 2 eyes still tells me he's a playoff choke artist who easily succumbs to media and game pressure. I don't need an advanced cheat sheet to tell me that.

I don't see how that means he still isn't a top ~15 player...? 4th in Raptor WAR, I didn't just call him a top 4 player. I also use metrics and eye test and traditional stats to form a conclusion.

[bigjbasketball]

To call PG a top 15 player, you really need to list out all the other top players and make sure you can squeeze him in there before you get to 15. I think top 5, top 10, top 15, etc. gets thrown around a lot without actually looking at the other players in the league. Even if he was healthy the whole year, I’m not sure I’d have him on an All-NBA team, so that’s 15 players right there.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by daeve

You challenged me to present anything showing PG as a top 15 player and I did. Now you're talking about Crowder for some reason, why? Because when I answered you and you were wrong, we have to go on some merry-go-around all the time. I'm over it - prove your point

So my point was obvious. Using that single method to say he’s a top15 player is dumb. I’m pretty sure it’s the only advanced metric that has him top 15 last season but even then if your entire evaluation of a player is RAPTOR, there’s no discussion to be had.

I bet even 90% of this board could name 15 players off the top of their head over him.

You just can’t admit when you have a bad take and then for some reason defend it to the death