PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[superdan49]

1948 Leaf #4 Stan Musial SGC 5.5 to PSA 7

Sold on 10/12/2016 as an SGC 5.5 by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser) for $1,703
Consigned to PWCC as a PSA 7 and sold on 3/11/2018 for $7,112
Value gain of $5,409!

Here we have whitman111 purchasing an SGC '48 Leaf Stan Musial rookie card from PWCC, cracking it out, cutting and sharpening the two left corners and noticeably trimming the right edge. He then submitted it to PSA, which missed the alterations, awarding the card a PSA 7 grade. He then consigned the altered card to PWCC, which sold it in March 2018.

Of special note on this card is the fact that it earned PWCC's HE certification sticker not once, but twice: first as an SGC 5.5 and then as an altered PSA 7.


https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1362229



https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1619505












This is the second 1948 Leaf Musial found to be trimmed in this thread alone. The other was uncovered by corndog, which you can view HERE.

[corndog]

Great find.

There is a definite pattern of cards being bought from PWCC, altered and then resold through PWCC.

I don't just smell smoke, the house is burning.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by corndog

Great find.

There is a definite pattern of cards being bought from PWCC, altered and then resold through PWCC.

I don't just smell smoke, the house is burning.

1948-49 Leaf cards are a trimmer's paradise. The natural size variations give expert trimmers a big window to work in. I think we can find close to $200,000 in trims just by searching through all '48 Leafs.

If PWCC wants to fix this problem, they will not only be cutting off one of their top consignors, but they will concurrently lose one of their best customers.

[GatorPie]

Damn, that Musial is trimmed on BOTH sides! Does anyone have a clue who whitman111 is?

The side-by-side comparison photos are terrific.

[mjohnatgt]

Mentioned earlier in the thread, it is Gary Moser. Google his name for fraud dating back 20 years.

[daveyc1]

so now with the vault, PWCC can possibly ¨sell¨ a card, never have it leave their possession, have it doctored and then resell again. how convenient.

[Felada]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Mentioned earlier in the thread, it is Gary Moser. Google his name for fraud dating back 20 years.

Looks like a quick google search turns up a 2014 article on hauls of shame involving trimming and altered t206 magee’s.

[pspa123]

He has been mentioned several times going back many years on Net54.

[daveyc1]

some interesting info was posted on another forum. It seems that collectors universe self insures the guarantee of authenticity. part of their financials were posted regarding this.

Collectors Universe warranty expense for year:
2016: $145,000
2017: $302,000
2018: $764,000
It seems the warranty expense has been doubling for the last three years. with all the recent revelations, I would expect it to more than double for this financial year.

Their warranty reserves as of 6-30-2018 were $862,000.
think they will have enough??

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

some interesting info was posted on another forum. It seems that collectors universe self insures the guarantee of authenticity. part of their financials were posted regarding this.

Collectors Universe warranty expense for year:
2016: $145,000
2017: $302,000
2018: $764,000
It seems the warranty expense has been doubling for the last three years. with all the recent revelations, I would expect it to more than double for this financial year.

Their warranty reserves as of 6-30-2018 were $862,000.
think they will have enough??

Unfortunately they do not break down their PCGS and PSA expenses, so we can’t draw a conclusion on where the rise is coming from. I am looking into the best way to leverage the Financial Guarantee as a way to draw attention to this issue. But collectors returning their fraudulent cards to PSA might take care of it for me.

[shagrotn77]

Damn. It's starting to look that those certified stickers really mean certified altered.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by daveyc1

so now with the vault, PWCC can possibly ¨sell¨ a card, never have it leave their possession, have it doctored and then resell again. how convenient.

Stuff like this is why the people here that are putting in hours of work and following the evidence will never get a serious response to any of their inquiries from anyone involved. This thread is chock full of kids making outlandish claims that have no basis in reality or have no evidence to support it, yet. They taint everything that's going on here and make it easy for those involved to point to it all and dismiss it as an "agenda," "conspiracy theory," or simple "bashing/hatred."

When people make giant assumptions or extrapolate things as fact that there's no evidence of it hurts the legitimate work that people are doing. If you don't know something to be true, don't throw out some ludicrous statement. You're not adding anything to the conversation and you're probably just lowering the standard that those that are actually working are trying to elevate.

Arthur

[gabballplayer14]

Originally Posted by shagrotn77

Damn. It's starting to look that those certified stickers really mean certified altered.

I was thinking the same thing.

These are the perfect starting point to find trimmed cards/subs to look for. PWCC basically did the work for us by showing which cards are his, or came from his trimmers.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Stuff like this is why the people here that are putting in hours of work and following the evidence will never get a serious response to any of their inquiries from anyone involved. This thread is chock full of kids making outlandish claims that have no basis in reality or have no evidence to support it, yet. They taint everything that's going on here and make it easy for those involved to point to it all and dismiss it as an "agenda," "conspiracy theory," or simple "bashing/hatred."

When people make giant assumptions or extrapolate things as fact that there's no evidence of it hurts the legitimate work that people are doing. If you don't know something to be true, don't throw out some ludicrous statement. You're not adding anything to the conversation and you're probably just lowering the standard that those that are actually working are trying to elevate.

Arthur

I agree with this. There is no evidence that PWCC is doctoring these cards, just as there is no evidence that PSA is "in" on this scandal.

I appreciate the passion from folks, I really do, but hyperbolic statements like that only give fuel to those who think Blowout is just a bunch of meddling kids who shouldn't be taken seriously.

[irv]

Originally Posted by palmetto7

Welcome back Dan!!! AND THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO FOR THE HOBBY!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by superdan49

Thanks! We have a great team here on BO. A lot of guys whose only goal is to rid the hobby of as much fraud as we possibly can.

X2!

Thanks for all your hard work, Dan.

I think I may start frequenting this site a little more often!

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Stuff like this is why the people here that are putting in hours of work and following the evidence will never get a serious response to any of their inquiries from anyone involved. This thread is chock full of kids making outlandish claims that have no basis in reality or have no evidence to support it, yet. They taint everything that's going on here and make it easy for those involved to point to it all and dismiss it as an "agenda," "conspiracy theory," or simple "bashing/hatred."

When people make giant assumptions or extrapolate things as fact that there's no evidence of it hurts the legitimate work that people are doing. If you don't know something to be true, don't throw out some ludicrous statement. You're not adding anything to the conversation and you're probably just lowering the standard that those that are actually working are trying to elevate.

Arthur

It needed to be said, and a good job of saying it. These cases are built, patiently, with building blocks, not with wild accusations.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Stuff like this is why the people here that are putting in hours of work and following the evidence will never get a serious response to any of their inquiries from anyone involved. This thread is chock full of kids making outlandish claims that have no basis in reality or have no evidence to support it, yet. They taint everything that's going on here and make it easy for those involved to point to it all and dismiss it as an "agenda," "conspiracy theory," or simple "bashing/hatred."

When people make giant assumptions or extrapolate things as fact that there's no evidence of it hurts the legitimate work that people are doing. If you don't know something to be true, don't throw out some ludicrous statement. You're not adding anything to the conversation and you're probably just lowering the standard that those that are actually working are trying to elevate.

Arthur

I hear what you are saying Arthur but the comment was so off base that few will notice it. This is a message board. People want to pipe in without knowing the facts and make irresponsible and inaccurate comments.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I agree with this. There is no evidence that PWCC is doctoring these cards, just as there is no evidence that PSA is "in" on this scandal.

I appreciate the passion from folks, I really do, but hyperbolic statements like that only give fuel to those who think Blowout is just a bunch of meddling kids who shouldn't be taken seriously.

Correct. But there is an abundant amount of evidence that PWCC is knowingly selling altered cards without disclosure. The DiMaggio and Mantle being the two best examples. And in the case of the DiMaggio, the card was purchased (pre-alteration) by PWCC for a client, graded (post-alteration) through PSA by PWCC for a client, then sold by PWCC just a mere months after the original purchase.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by Felada

Looks like a quick google search turns up a 2014 article on hauls of shame involving trimming and altered t206 magee’s.

The blog mentions his name but it does not attribute the T206s to him.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Correct. But there is an abundant amount of evidence that PWCC is knowingly selling altered cards without disclosure. The DiMaggio and Mantle being the two best examples. And in the case of the DiMaggio, the card was purchased (pre-alteration) by PWCC for a client, graded (post-alteration) through PSA by PWCC for a client, then sold by PWCC just a mere months after the original purchase.

Disclosure I am with you 100%

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by irv

X2!

Thanks for all your hard work, Dan.

I think I may start frequenting this site a little more often!

Thank you. Please stick around!

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

And that is not the same as PWCC altering cards. There seems to be plenty of real, provable nefariousness to go around, we don't need to be making baseless claims that can only hurt the righteous ones. Stick to the facts.

Arthur

Agree that we should stick to the facts. But dealing cards you know are altered and fraudulently sitting in numerical slabs is just as bad as altering them.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Agree that we should stick to the facts. But dealing cards you know are altered and fraudulently sitting in numerical slabs is just as bad as altering them.

Arthur's point is valid. There is enough evidence of the shadiness they are doing. We don't need to connect dots that are not there... yet.

[superdan49]

1948 Leaf #32 Warren Spahn PSA 4.5 to PSA 7

Sold on 10/12/2016 as a PSA 4.5 by eBay seller melhschaferdj7 to whitman111 (Gary Moser) for $346
Consigned to PWCC as a PSA 7 and sold on 9/11/2017 for $885
Value gain of $539

And once again, yet another altered 1948-49 Leaf card. Here we have whitman111 purchasing a PSA 4.5 Leaf Warren Spahn RC off eBay, cracking it out, cutting and trimming the left and right edges and sharpening the corners. He then submitted it to PSA, which missed the alterations, awarding the card a PSA 7 grade. He then consigned the altered card to PWCC, which sold it in September 2017. Look at the drastic changes in that right edge especially. How did PSA miss this one?

The blue circles on front and back on the below images are distinct marks, proving it is the same card.


https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-32-1868747138




https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1619505

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by corndog

Great find.

There is a definite pattern of cards being bought from PWCC, altered and then resold through PWCC.

I don't just smell smoke, the house is burning.

PWCC and ebay then get paid at least twice. However, while PSA got paid twice, it is on the hook if information provided for more money than it collected. PSA does not have enough reserves to support its mistakes. The Jackie Robinson posted was perplexing as there is a change in the yellow background color. Still no evidence that PWCC alters anything, just that there is substantial evidence that he like other third party sellers accept consignments from known card trimmers - if they did not they would not have built up their business to the extent they have. The attitude was if the grading company slabbed it, we will sell it.