Skybox 2024 1992 MM Platinum

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by GFD18

The digital base are consumed in the combine process. Same with the mini boxes when making a kaleidoscope. Aka every kaleidoscope made, removes 10 mini boxes from existence.

Ah I was mixing it up with achievements where you retain the card. That is somewhat surprising. So someone making a Spider-Man kaleidoscope has to give up 10 spidey mini boxes which are trading anywhere $50-80 per, wow.

So I guess this means those additions with kaleidoscopes turn to subtractions, there’s an interplay then, and we subtract all kaleidoscopes worth of mini boxes from the utopia number to get a max possible mini box amount. I think it’s safe to assume the print run of mini boxes will be in the few hundred, maybe like 250-300 or so.

I agree with the other comment you can’t be 100% sure with backdoors, but I’m just operating under the assumption what ends up on the market is what was redeemed. It’s an assumption, that’s fair. I am pretty confident that it’s true going back to at least MM16 since there’s no way a flood of those tier 4 achievements have hit the market to date, they continue to be scarce.

Originally Posted by Kobefan

Great card, must have spend a fortune or you got a steal. It's probably as rare, if not more, than a kaleidoscope. Too bad they don't have one for the surfer.

I thought it was a pretty fair price. That’s the thing with the VIP’s, kinda a bummer not being a true parallel. I feel like Surfer deserved a spot. Maybe over She-Hulk close to the top…but certainly at least over Enchantress, Morbius, and Bullseye?

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

I have a lot of stuff in transit and a bunch of others I'm still trying to find, but wanted to share this one as it marked the end of my run with ripping hobby boxes. Kind of funny that I only opened enough boxes to hit 6 PMGs, and 3 of them happened to be the same character (and all 3 parallels at that). This in my estimation is probably in the top 1% of cards in the entire set, and I'd be really pressing to hit anything better, which is why I'm comfortable to say I'm done ripping personals.

Oh wow what a hit! Awesome on the color match, and easily one of the top tier cards in the product. Congrats!

[js0000001]

Sweet Hulk. Love the color match

[Kobefan]

My Silver Surfer break # 3 is back. Such bad value, there's no rational reason for me to keep on doing this, but I blame it on the first break when I passed on a Surfer break and they pulled a Surfer PMG Green. The only card of any value is the one rainbow.

IMG_9519 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/144733631@N03/]


On a happier note, I just got back these cards from Comc, most of which are from epack transfer. The holofoil is indeed off-centered.
IMG_9521 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/144733631@N03/]

[DynaEtch]

Man that Surfer Kaleidoscope…that’s a sweet mail day.

I’m doing my shipments home from comc in pieces…a little here and there….I had an initial grouping of like 10 Holofoils come in today. They were all off-center, but some worse than others. I will say most had the 92 Plat box basically touching the bottom edge, but like 1 or 2 had “somewhat” tolerable centering- still off but not that bad. So there’s at least a little variance.

Break-wise…oh we all know why we’re doing them…to hit some nuts golden treasures or green PMG lol. The odds are so bad though, I gotta keep reminding myself.

[Spacemanspif]

looks like that one superuser completed another VIP black set

[DynaEtch]

Couple recent pickups…anyone picking anything up or making progress on parallel sets?

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Couple recent pickups…anyone picking anything up or making progress on parallel sets?

I’m not jealous, I’m not jealous…I am jealous, how did you get them? I don’t see them on eBay. Congrats.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

I’m not jealous, I’m not jealous…I am jealous, how did you get them? I don’t see them on eBay. Congrats.

It was just Ebay, sometimes searching for this set is a little tedious- some listings include platinum, some dont and just say 2024 marvel masterpieces (like all comc listings, which don’t include platinum). But then it’s mixed with the other 2024MM Grego set. I often keep searches general as possible, even as just “marvel masterpieces”. Although I don’t think the above ones were missing any key terms from title, should be searchable.

Anyway, many of the bigger purple variants are going for less than price of one blaster case. Making me second guess my decision early on to buy like 4 blaster cases, I’d rather have just went for 4 guaranteed purple variants, big names too. The main reason I was buying those cases was just for the purple variant chance.

I’d just keep an eye out, at /25 we should see some more of say Surfer trickling onto ebay.

[DynaEtch]

The prices on many of the kaleidoscopes I’m seeing aren’t bad, anyone else notice this? I have a theory why, but just wondering if anyone else thinks compared to how hard they are to get, the prices are pretty reasonable.

[LittleJimmies]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

The prices on many of the kaleidoscopes I’m seeing aren’t bad, anyone else notice this? I have a theory why, but just wondering if anyone else thinks compared to how hard they are to get, the prices are pretty reasonable.

Same story as every combinable achievement from every set. People who didn't put in the hard work to combine them never value them as highly as those who did. Also, no serial # kills it for many collectors.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by LittleJimmies

Same story as every combinable achievement from every set. People who didn't put in the hard work to combine them never value them as highly as those who did. Also, no serial # kills it for many collectors.

Those are fair points too…although for the first im the opposite- as an outside buyer I value them more because I know someone went to the tedious work of getting them. Or take some of those high tier VIP blacks- I’m mentally calculating how much $ some of those ePack whales must have spent to even do that, it’s near astronomical.

The no serial number makes sense. My thought was because unlike the mini-boxes (which everyone seems to be set collecting), the kaleidoscopes are basically not gonna be set collected due to being such a high caliber parallel and price. And if they are at all, only by a very, very small number of people. It’s the “set collecting effect” and also explains why some gold seismic /92 are in range of their orange lava /25 counterparts (almost no one collecting the latter, while some actually are attempting the former). With few to no set collectors of kaleidoscopes, it leaves just character collectors which are typically the big characters, and for the low to mid characters there isn’t much an audience for that card.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

The prices on many of the kaleidoscopes I’m seeing aren’t bad, anyone else notice this? I have a theory why, but just wondering if anyone else thinks compared to how hard they are to get, the prices are pretty reasonable.

There are just way too many options out there right now. The glut of sets as well as all the ePack sales has people's money spread thin. If I was to venture a guess...it'd be that the Kaleidoscopes do pretty well long term, once Marvel vanishes from ePack and Topps pumps out the same junk over and over.

It took years for many achievement cards to actually be worth something, combinable or otherwise. I'm old and forgetful but I think 16MM was the first achievement cards they did. Here's an example:



First of all, yes, that is my sale from COMC in 2016. Secondly, no, I don't feel stupid for moving the card for $2.00. That's what it was worth in 2016, and I had nearly 50 of them, ha-ha. The eBay sale is the most recent that I found while doing a quick search. The card was selling for $400-$700 in 2022...so I guess if I was going to feel stupid, I'd feel more stupid about paying $700 in 2022 vs selling for $2.00 in 2016 Another example from the same set is the Acetate what if tier 4's. While I don't have an image of a COMC sale because I never sold any on there, the last sale I can find is:



I do remember these moving in the $1k-1.5k~ range out of the gate. There weren't many of them, maybe 12-15~. Lastly, I wouldn't be surprised if the card came up again if it actually outsold that "covid boom" high, which sounds crazy, but there just aren't many out there and the demand is still there.


Point is, while Kaleidoscopes will never see nearly that kind of return, it'll take time(and people being interested in the set, which I think will happen) to see what happens with them.

[LittleJimmies]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Those are fair points too…although for the first im the opposite- as an outside buyer I value them more because I know someone went to the tedious work of getting them. Or take some of those high tier VIP blacks- I’m mentally calculating how much $ some of those ePack whales must have spent to even do that, it’s near astronomical.

The no serial number makes sense. My thought was because unlike the mini-boxes (which everyone seems to be set collecting), the kaleidoscopes are basically not gonna be set collected due to being such a high caliber parallel and price. And if they are at all, only by a very, very small number of people. It’s the “set collecting effect” and also explains why some gold seismic /92 are in range of their orange lava /25 counterparts (almost no one collecting the latter, while some actually are attempting the former). With few to no set collectors of kaleidoscopes, it leaves just character collectors which are typically the big characters, and for the low to mid characters there isn’t much an audience for that card.

I can't definitively say what the reason is they don't sell for as much as they objectively should, I'm sure there's a number of valid reasons that are weighted differently for different sets, but they just don't. I'm a big fan of a lot of these cards from various sets. My favorite is the 2017 Fleer Ultra Spider-Man Metal "Patterned". Based on rarity (10 base Metal on ePack) and awesomeness of the cards, I'd think 20x++ base price would seem like a fair estimate, yet they typically go for 3-5x. Another great example is last August I picked up a Fleer Ultra Avengers Spider-Man Gold Rainbow (100 base cards) for $30 delivered on eBay. This one was definitely an outlier on the bargain end of things. It was also a PSA 8 which looks bad in our gem or die climate, but in reality really good condition being a thick foil card.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Yea finfang covered it all…it’s uncirculated stock image and I would expect it with 99.97% chance to be very off center. Simply because I haven’t seen a single Holofoil originating from epack thats not off center to this point.

I wanted to circle back to this...

Yesterday I was searching around on COMC and someone was listing a few Holofoils. Obviously, we've talked the fact that all the cards coming from COMC seem to be O/C when either scanned in or sent home. With that said, I started looking through all of the listings that were on site and I noticed every "stock image" that I clicked on(maybe 30 or so), all had decent centering.

So, the question I have for either COMC or UD is, where did COMC get the cards for the "Stock Image" photos? I'd assume they came from the same stock UD sent them to send to ePack users. Are they just sending out the snicklefritz to us and holding back the decently centered copies like the "Stock Image" photo? I always thought COMC received cards from UD and then imaged them all, thus why it took so long between physical and ePack release. But if they did that with this set, why are we all getting horribly O/C cards when the "Stock Image" photos are decently centered? I'd need to look through the rest of the Holofoils to be sure but I figured 30 decently centered "Stock Image" photos was enough to make that assumption.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by orion9578

There are just way too many options out there right now. The glut of sets as well as all the ePack sales has people's money spread thin. If I was to venture a guess...it'd be that the Kaleidoscopes do pretty well long term, once Marvel vanishes from ePack and Topps pumps out the same junk over and over.

It took years for many achievement cards to actually be worth something, combinable or otherwise. I'm old and forgetful but I think 16MM was the first achievement cards they did. Here's an example:



First of all, yes, that is my sale from COMC in 2016. Secondly, no, I don't feel stupid for moving the card for $2.00. That's what it was worth in 2016, and I had nearly 50 of them, ha-ha. The eBay sale is the most recent that I found while doing a quick search. The card was selling for $400-$700 in 2022...so I guess if I was going to feel stupid, I'd feel more stupid about paying $700 in 2022 vs selling for $2.00 in 2016 Another example from the same set is the Acetate what if tier 4's. While I don't have an image of a COMC sale because I never sold any on there, the last sale I can find is:



I do remember these moving in the $1k-1.5k~ range out of the gate. There weren't many of them, maybe 12-15~. Lastly, I wouldn't be surprised if the card came up again if it actually outsold that "covid boom" high, which sounds crazy, but there just aren't many out there and the demand is still there.


Point is, while Kaleidoscopes will never see nearly that kind of return, it'll take time(and people being interested in the set, which I think will happen) to see what happens with them.

Those are some wild price discrepancies….the thing with you selling the achievement for cheap before Covid…no one knew what would happen to those, it’s hard to blame you.

We do need to be careful when comparing to MM16 and any of those achievements, especially the rarest ones. That is somewhat of a legendary set, one of the very first marvel ePack sets as well. Prices of some of the rarest stuff is in its own stratosphere. The trajectory on MM16 stuff was very reasonable/lower priced early, then skyrocketed during Covid, then came down some, but still high. A set like 92MM released post-covid probably follows a different type of trajectory. It does depend how popular the set will be long term, but I think it’ll be fairly popular down the road.

Originally Posted by LittleJimmies

I can't definitively say what the reason is they don't sell for as much as they objectively should, I'm sure there's a number of valid reasons that are weighted differently for different sets, but they just don't. I'm a big fan of a lot of these cards from various sets. My favorite is the 2017 Fleer Ultra Spider-Man Metal "Patterned". Based on rarity (10 base Metal on ePack) and awesomeness of the cards, I'd think 20x++ base price would seem like a fair estimate, yet they typically go for 3-5x. Another great example is last August I picked up a Fleer Ultra Avengers Spider-Man Gold Rainbow (100 base cards) for $30 delivered on eBay. This one was definitely an outlier on the bargain end of things. It was also a PSA 8 which looks bad in our gem or die climate, but in reality really good condition being a thick foil card.

I will say there’s a charm to these combinables like the ones you mentioned. Very nice looking cards. The work that goes into them I do appreciate too. I recently picked up a pretty main character kaleidoscope for sub $150, so I am surprised is all. I do think a factor is almost no one is collecting the set (way too daunting).

As for the PSA 8, I’d rather have a nice rarer card PSA 8 than something not as rare in PSA 10 all day. The grade to me is quite superfluous with modern marvel limited cards, much more about the card.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by orion9578

So, the question I have for either COMC or UD is, where did COMC get the cards for the "Stock Image" photos? I'd assume they came from the same stock UD sent them to send to ePack users. Are they just sending out the snicklefritz to us and holding back the decently centered copies like the "Stock Image" photo? I always thought COMC received cards from UD and then imaged them all, thus why it took so long between physical and ePack release. But if they did that with this set, why are we all getting horribly O/C cards when the "Stock Image" photos are decently centered? I'd need to look through the rest of the Holofoils to be sure but I figured 30 decently centered "Stock Image" photos was enough to make that assumption.

Good question. Clearly they used a centered Holofoil for their stock photos, and I wonder where it came from.

This has to be causing issues with ebay sales I have to imagine. Comc posts on ebay the uncirculated Holofoil stock photo, pretty sure it doesn’t even say stock photo either. Some buyers (maybe not knowing about the situation with the Holofoils) innocently buy one and get a totally different off-centered card. That’s gotta cause a lot of INAD claims.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Those are some wild price discrepancies….the thing with you selling the achievement for cheap before Covid…no one knew what would happen to those, it’s hard to blame you.

We do need to be careful when comparing to MM16 and any of those achievements, especially the rarest ones. That is somewhat of a legendary set, one of the very first marvel ePack sets as well. Prices of some of the rarest stuff is in its own stratosphere. The trajectory on MM16 stuff was very reasonable/lower priced early, then skyrocketed during Covid, then came down some, but still high. A set like 92MM released post-covid probably follows a different type of trajectory. It does depend how popular the set will be long term, but I think it’ll be fairly popular down the road.

I wasn't comparing 16MM to 92MM, perse. The 16MM achievements floundered for several years(though not $2.00) before they picked up major steam. So, judging how the Kaleidoscopes are selling only a short time after release isn't giving them time to...mature.

16MM isn't the only example, though. Rainbow Web Foil FUSM were a combinable "achievement" that have done OK over the years.



Tough cards to make but I did the entire set for "cheap"...(Probably opened 50-60 cases over the years!)

2019 Premier:



Another tough one to do but again, pennies on the dollar to what they cost when they came out. I know, because I paid over $500 for the X-23 fairly recently...

Point is, the Kaleidoscopes could be big cards in a few years. If the set catches on, with as little product as was on ePack, I see big prices on certain cards....(And those Black Rainbow achievements you've been picking up!).

[DynaEtch]

Yea those are some pretty wild examples lol. Very true about the FUSM rainbow foils absolutely taking off. Those cards are downright gorgeous which doesn’t hurt.

Well if these kaleid’s do mature well in the future, I’ll be happy with the mainish character I bought for under $150! I have yet to see a kaleid in person but I’m sure they are nice.

The VIP blacks look pretty nice in person, have a rainbow finish. I made the arguably stupid decision to collect the entire set of those (maybe will be considered a good decision down the road, time will tell I guess).

[DynaEtch]

Here is my custom binder of purple crystals. I intend the entire binder to be just purple crystal related.










It’s a lot of purple! Variants in toploader pages, the regular ones in normal pages. I’m at 97/100 of the regular ones, with the remaining 3 incoming in a long transit from comc (yes comc is already seeing some of these). So that set is considered finished.

I may or may not be attempting the silly task of a set of the /25 variants. I do like the look of these a lot, and the retail exclusive aspect is interesting to me. In the same way bronze and gold holofoils were interesting in 94MM.

[DynaEtch]

Question, if you could have one of the following parallel sets, which would you rather have? Red PMG /100 set or Gold Seismic /92 set?

Which one do you think the market will value more?

The gold seismics have the slight edge in numbered out of less, although there’s two entire types of the gold seismics, base and variant, so maybe you should double that. And the red pmgs are, well…pmgs.

I think the market will value a set of red PMGs higher but I’d personally want the gold seismic set more. Partly because the white border issue with the PMGs.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Question, if you could have one of the following parallel sets, which would you rather have? Red PMG /100 set or Gold Seismic /92 set?

Which one do you think the market will value more?

The gold seismics have the slight edge in numbered out of less, although there’s two entire types of the gold seismics, base and variant, so maybe you should double that. And the red pmgs are, well…pmgs.

I think the market will value a set of red PMGs higher but I’d personally want the gold seismic set more. Partly because the white border issue with the PMGs.

I'm kinda sorta collecting everything, but I think what I'm going more aggressively after are the variant golds and oranges. I think with the shiny nature of this set, the variant covers just look cooler. I agree with you that the PMGs will probably resonate as the "investment" sets, but on a case by case basis there will be cards in each parallel that do much better than others due to color matches, or the PMG borders.

[Bunny Hop]

way to go on the purples, Dyna. yowza.

[ThatGuyPal]

Dang, I'm an idiot I never knew toploader binder pages existed lol that's sick though picking a purple binder was a great touch. Collection coming along nicely will look great as a set, have always loved cracked ice in any form.

In regards to your question, I think overall fullset vs fullset it's PMG's. People will remember the PMG's for the nostalgia factor and there won't even be any more Gold Seismics as Topps doesn't do those obviously. This is on even footing, if a bunch of people put a PMG set together and only say 1-2 people meticulously put a Seismic set together than yeah the market may be higher for the golds based on supply/demand. Another thing and this could be personal but I've never liked odd numbering like /92. Feels like a cheap gimmick to add more parallels tbh, I prefer traditional /99 or 100 /75 /50 /25 /10 /5 /1. May just be me but I couldn't collect a set out of /92 or /8 or something lol last Seismic is numbered less but by 8 and vs a pretty iconic parallel, now if these were outta /50 and PMG's /100 we may have an argument but I think a difference of 8 is basically negligible when you consider PMG's market status.

[orion9578]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

It’s a lot of purple!

They look great

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

I may or may not be attempting the silly task of a set of the /25 variants. I do like the look of these a lot, and the retail exclusive aspect is interesting to me. In the same way bronze and gold holofoils were interesting in 94MM.

The best looking parallel in the entire set. So as THE "92 guy", I'd say may not isn't an option

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Question, if you could have one of the following parallel sets, which would you rather have? Red PMG /100 set or Gold Seismic /92 set?

Which one do you think the market will value more?

The gold seismics have the slight edge in numbered out of less, although there’s two entire types of the gold seismics, base and variant, so maybe you should double that. And the red pmgs are, well…pmgs.

I think the market will value a set of red PMGs higher but I’d personally want the gold seismic set more. Partly because the white border issue with the PMGs.

Base Gold /92 if I have my "collector" hat on. The PMG's are PMG's but they're also a huge disappointment to me. Not only the white issue, which is bothersome...but the lack of PMG on the front totally kills it for me. With that said, they're still PMG's. They'll probably be worth more. Golds have no history, save the /10's in Platinum, which also has no history...ha-ha.

My ranking's would go:

1. Purple Variant /25's(I'd actually go Purple Base /25, if they existed...)

2. Gold Base /92

3. Green /10 & Orange /25 ... I like both but they're just to cost prohibitive

4. PMG's. Ruined. For me, at least.