2016 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - All Politics & Dumb Opinions Here

[zachtruitt]

Let's meet again in 2020.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

Well if someone hacked Trump then it would make it a rigged election but because it's Hillary it's not. Come on, isn't that obvious?

Rigged??? Tell that to the Bernie supporters. Trump won the Republican nomination fair and square. Clinton not so much.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

I totally respect that decision for you. I'm just in the other camp where I'd rather vote for knowing what is coming and then hopefully a better candidate comes in 4 years if Hillary isn't getting anything done. I agree there needs to be change I just don't think Donald is the one to get it done.

As for the 2018 cycle, regardless of who wins I think it will be interesting. Donald (and Bernie) have definitely changed the political atmosphere going forward.

Yes 2018 is going to be very interesting. Both sides have a ton of resentment for the candidates on the top of the ticket. It will be interesting to see how this translates into Senate and House seats. Will the incumbents bear the brunt of the hate and get kicked out or more status quo? I would like to think we will get some new blood into Congress on both sides.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

I totally respect that decision for you. I'm just in the other camp where I'd rather vote for knowing what is coming and then hopefully a better candidate comes in 4 years if Hillary isn't getting anything done. I agree there needs to be change I just don't think Donald is the one to get it done.

As for the 2018 cycle, regardless of who wins I think it will be interesting. Donald (and Bernie) have definitely changed the political atmosphere going forward.

Truthfully, for the sake of my family and my future, Clinton is the right pick. I have no reason to rock the boat, my life will likely remain unchanged w/ a Clinton presidency. The last 8 years have been the most prosperous of my life, so increased taxes, more regulation, slow progress or change, that's good for me.

But for some reason, I find myself enveloped in this election, really wanting to see tangible, actual, change. Stories like this have begun to enrage me ...

'Blue lives don't matter,' pro-BLM UC Irvine protesters say

Perhaps because I now have children, IDK, but in watching the way this country operates on a political level, I'm just ready for something else. ANYTHING else.

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by Scottish Punk

If Trump wins, he will have to do what all candidates do when they win the election. Move to the center. Trump is a bit of different case. I don't see him as a traditional republican, he is pretty center on many issues already. All the talk of renegotiating trade deals, building a wall, shrinking the government ,etc.. They won't happen. All of those will be stonewalled by Congress (and rightfully so in some cases for a change). If he is stubborn and doesn't move from his positions, we will have four years of stalemate and an economy that could slide back due to poor consumer confidence.

Above all with Trump he is a salesman. He will bounce and flip to whatever side that will make himself look good and declare victory.

All of this is moot though, barring a catastrophic scandal. Clinton is going to win and probably pretty easily. Most of the polls I have seen as shown her to be winning in all the key battleground states and her lead his growing. Trump his losing badly in minority and women voters. All he has is middle/upper class white men. I don't think that is enough to carry an election as evidenced by Romney (whose numbers was actually better).

Trump actually has all the Americans that are fed up with the ever growing exposed corruption. This group is growing with every wikileaks dump. Dems were allowed to play stupid on all the "conspiracy theories" about Clinton, but now every single one these "outlandish claims" about them are being proven. I predict there are more Americans who will care about this kind of criminal enterprise over Trump's antics, unless the MSM and DOJ can concoct a legal charge against him, which they might do at this point to hand Hillary the election.

[Scottish Punk]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Truthfully, for the sake of my family and my future, Clinton is the right pick. I have no reason to rock the boat, my life will likely remain unchanged w/ a Clinton presidency. The last 8 years have been the most prosperous of my life, so increased taxes, more regulation, slow progress or change, that's good for me.

But for some reason, I find myself enveloped in this election, really wanting to see tangible, actual, change. Stories like this have begun to enrage me ...

'Blue lives don't matter,' pro-BLM UC Irvine protesters say

Perhaps because I now have children, IDK, but in watching the way this country operates on a political level, I'm just ready for something else. ANYTHING else.

I think a vast majority of americans feel the same way. Hence the big push for Bernie and Trump, who are both failed candidates (IMO), but they represent anarchy vs the status quo. Real change to the presidency options needs to start locally and build up. Vote 3rd party candidates (provided they are qualified of course) in you local elections. It may take a many election cycles, but that is the only way to get real change in my opinion.

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Trump actually has all the Americans that are fed up with the ever growing exposed corruption. This group is growing with every wikileaks dump. Dems were allowed to play stupid on all the "conspiracy theories" about Clinton, but now every single one these "outlandish claims" about them are being proven. I predict there are more Americans who will care about this kind of criminal enterprise over Trump's antics, unless the MSM and DOJ can concoct a legal charge against him, which they might do at this point to hand Hillary the election.

You think Trump's base is growing? The same people that liked him 6 months ago just like him more. What has HE done to grow his base and bring more people into his camp? Regardless of all of the negativity he tosses towards Hillary I could never vote for him.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

Let's try to get this to a semi-intelligent conversation instead of tin foil hats and conspiracies.

Assume that Trump wins the election. How does anything get accomplished considering he has separated himself from the GOP basically? If nothing gets done, is that the change that everyone wants? Can someone voting for Trump please let me know what they think?

I honestly think we need a convention of states. Need to implement term limits and much more. This would be the best and quickest way to shake up DC.

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by babyfaceposey

I honestly think we need a convention of states. Need to implement term limits and much more. This would be the best and quickest way to shake up DC.

I totally agree that a lot should go back to the states and be defederalized (is that a word?). But I don't think he is the one that can accomplish any of it. How do you think he can get anything done with little to no Congressional support?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Chapmans, we disagree in regards to this election but I guarantee you that if we sat down we'd both agree on infinitely more than we disagree on. Even though I would never cast a vote for Trump I respect you for doing so, and respect that you haven't gone down in the mud slinging at all this thread.

Whoever wins is only guaranteed 4 years.

It's your opinion Trump would do less "damage" than Hillary in those 4 years.
It's my opinion Hillary would do less "damage" than Trump in those 4 years.

Nobody really knows what someone like Trump would do, and that scares people (myself included). We all know what were getting with Hillary, and to many that's better than the unknown. I'm not afraid of change and welcome it in the political landscape, I think many who would vote for Hillary would welcome the change as well. People like me just don't like the change Donald Trump represents.

If we're truly going to change the system, we shouldn't do it by putting one of worst forward. There are literally Millions of respectable people who would better represent that change, you being one of them. I can get on board with change, I just can't with Donald Trump. I admire the Republicans for wanting change, even if their voting record (and that of democrats) in off-year elections states otherwise.

Change has got to start somewhere, let's start with Congress, then work the Senate, and then work our way to the Presidency. To start from the top and work our way down wouldn't represent actual change. To think that the change with should start with Donald Trump is downright scary, to me and plenty others.

Two points to make about your post.

(1) I don't agree w/ your assessment of my opinion that I think Trump would do less "damage" than Hillary. Hillary is the safe play here, if you're happy with your life, and the world, vote Clinton. It's an institutional vote, an established politician who will only play the left side of the aisle, which will result in very little actually happening. I absolutely think Trump is more capable of doing more damage ... I just choose to believe that won't happen. Trump is the high risk, high reward candidate in this race, and as you likely can tell from my collecting style, I'm a high risk, high reward kind of guy.

(2) I too thought "why not anybody else". A respectable republican like Mike Pence ... but I think what would end up happening is that even if Pence was elected, the political engine would remain unchanged. It took a guy like Trump to expose the media and the political system for what it is; News organizations spending billions of dollars and every second every day trying to punch this man out of the election, leaving themselves exposed. Yes, a Republican in the White House (which I'd like to see) but again, little change.

Trump represents a chance, albeit small chance, and serious, tear it down and start all over change. In my lifetime, that kind of candidate has not presented itself in a republican or democratic party, with an actual chance of being elected. I don't know if that chance will ever present itself again, so I'm gonna run with it (Even bought a Trump shirt!)

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by tke1600

Trump actually has all the Americans that are fed up with the ever growing exposed corruption. This group is growing with every wikileaks dump. Dems were allowed to play stupid on all the "conspiracy theories" about Clinton, but now every single one these "outlandish claims" about them are being proven. I predict there are more Americans who will care about this kind of criminal enterprise over Trump's antics, unless the MSM and DOJ can concoct a legal charge against him, which they might do at this point to hand Hillary the election.

Really? I tend to think that he's just preaching more and more to his base that is already there. I don't think he's expanding it I just think he's digging in deeper with what he already had to begin with.

[IndySportsCards]

If there's any truth to the secret videotape of Bill raping a 13 year old girl on sex island being released by Anonymous, game over man, game over.

[zachtruitt]

Voting against my own interest just feels good, man.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Two points to make about your post.

(1) I don't agree w/ your assessment of my opinion that I think Trump would do less "damage" than Hillary. Hillary is the safe play here, if you're happy with your life, and the world, vote Clinton. It's an institutional vote, an established politician who will only play the left side of the aisle, which will result in very little actually happening. I absolutely think Trump is more capable of doing more damage ... I just choose to believe that won't happen. Trump is the high risk, high reward candidate in this race, and as you likely can tell from my collecting style, I'm a high risk, high reward kind of guy.

(2) I too though "why not anybody else". A respectable republican like Mike Pence ... but I think what would end up happening is that even if Pence was elected, the political engine would remain unchanged. It took a guy like Trump to expose the media and the political system for what it is; News organizations spending billions of dollars and every second every day trying to punch this man out of the election, leaving themselves exposed. Yes, a Republican in the White House (which I'd like to see) but again, little change.

Trump represents a chance, albeit small chance, and serious, tear it down and start all over change. In my lifetime, that kind of candidate has not presented itself in a republican or democratic party, with an actual chance of being elected. I don't know if that chance will ever present itself again, so I'm gonna run with it (Even bought a Trump shirt!)

That's fair, and I apologize if I put words in your mouth. I guess I lumped you in with the majority of rhetoric I've seen in regards to Trump about the "damage" Hillary would cause.

I agree with your risk/reward assessment, I guess I'm just in the camp that would say you don't play a high risk game with the United States Government. The stakes are WAY TOO HIGH to risk. You're risking the entire country, and not just any country, but THE COUNTRY which in effect is risking the world.

For what exactly? What is the great reward for the risk? I guess I fail to see it, but I could just be too jaded.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by jewcer2k5

I totally agree that a lot should go back to the states and be defederalized (is that a word?). But I don't think he is the one that can accomplish any of it. How do you think he can get anything done with little to no Congressional support?

I don't think he will change much, but it would stop the bleeding. Has to start with the states and setting term limits, no more super pacs or lobbyists.

[jewcer2k5]

Originally Posted by babyfaceposey

I don't think he will change much, but it would stop the bleeding. Has to start with the states and setting term limits, no more super pacs or lobbyists.

Let's write this date and time down, we finally agree on something.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by babyfaceposey

I don't think he will change much, but it would stop the bleeding. Has to start with the states and setting term limits, no more super pacs or lobbyists.

I agree with you as well Posey.

It HAS to start with this.

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by babyfaceposey

I don't think he will change much, but it would stop the bleeding. Has to start with the states and setting term limits, no more super pacs or lobbyists.

This much we can agree on

[tke1600]

Originally Posted by trixstar

Really? I tend to think that he's just preaching more and more to his base that is already there. I don't think he's expanding it I just think he's digging in deeper with what he already had to begin with.

I can tell you it's not just his base. The MSM are the ones pushing that only his base cares about the issues he is raising. By now you can agree that the media is almost never reporting accurately, can't you?

[jarrodsalas]

Originally Posted by tke1600

I can tell you it's not just his base. The MSM are the ones pushing that only his base cares about the issues he is raising. By now you can agree that the media is almost never reporting accurately, can't you?

Not when CNNs headline this morning reads..."He was like an Octopus"

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by trixstar

Really? I tend to think that he's just preaching more and more to his base that is already there. I don't think he's expanding it I just think he's digging in deeper with what he already had to begin with.

I disagree. What about those die hard Sanders supports. Wikileaks is showing the corruption of our politcal system and biased media. MSM running front page articles on Trump based on what someone said with no witnesses or ignoring the fact emails showing the corruption on the left from their own mouth.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by jarrodsalas

Not when CNNs headline this morning reads..."He was like an Octopus"

All they are talking about the are the women and the russians are behind the leaks.

[trixstar]

I guess I'm thinking that way because even right leaning polls are showing him dropping in every state. He just pulled out of VA to put money in closer races. I mean Utah is a toss up....whens' the last time that even happened? You can say it's MSM but these are right leaning sources i.e FoxNews.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by trixstar

I guess I'm thinking that way because even right leaning polls are showing him dropping in every state. He just pulled out of VA to put money in closer races. I mean Utah is a toss up....whens' the last time that even happened? You can say it's MSM but these are right leaning sources i.e FoxNews.

Who runs the polls? The people lining their pockets from the corruption in America. Look at the big picture. Republican politicans are just as corrupt. Trump is an outsider and they are shitting their pants that things might change.

[zachtruitt]

Exactly, look at the Fox News electoral map. Their numbers would mean a landslide for Clinton.