2016 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - All Politics & Dumb Opinions Here

[preakness]

I would never go see the new ghostbusters movie

[ssbledsoe]

Originally Posted by Clarka3

it's not like he's directly buying the cards from Kobe, is he?



but go ahead and attack the messenger rather than address the message. I'm not a woman, so I defer to women with how they are dealing with the Trump situation. Just like I hated the new ghostbusters movie until some women explained why it was great for them, and then I saw it through a different lens (empathy goes a long way).

His message? You mean as long as I like this person their transgressions are OK. If I dislike this person, their transgressions are abhorrent??? That message??? Sorry, but buying cards of rapists, wife abusers, and so forth is supporting them. Buying those cards incentivizes companies to produce more. Producing more leads to money in that players pocket. Sorry, but yes, he is passively accepting rape culture.

It's like the people that are trying to compare Trumps comments and Bill Clinton's actions. They're both abhorrent. Just because one guy does something bad doesn't mean you get to point and say, "But he did something worse?!?!" It doesn't make those comments any more acceptable.

Originally Posted by NeilCO

I don't know, man. Maybe? It's kind of a gray area, I think. Certainly, if I collected Kobe after saying that I think he is guilty, I would be passively supporting rape culture. A lot of people think Kobe is innocent, though, so can we hold those people to the same standards? Or what if he thinks Kobe was guilty, but is sincerely contrite and has changed?

Either way, I think the point made by the woman he quoted was valid. The response was something we've seen over and over in this thread: deflect, deflect, congratulate, deflect.


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Nothing gray about it at all. Kobe settled with her. He admitted he had sex with her. It's a complete line of BS to say supporting Kobe does not equal supporting rape culture. It's like Trump quoting Warren Buffet on taxes. Thanks, but I'll just listen to the message from the guy that actually pays taxes than the guy that dodges them.

Overriding theme: As long as someone agrees with my world view, hypocrisy is ok.

[NeilCO]

Originally Posted by ssbledsoe

His message? You mean as long as I like this person their transgressions are OK. If I dislike this person, their transgressions are abhorrent??? That message??? Sorry, but buying cards of rapists, wife abusers, and so forth is supporting them. Buying those cards incentivizes companies to produce more. Producing more leads to money in that players pocket. Sorry, but yes, he is passively accepting rape culture.



It's like the people that are trying to compare Trumps comments and Bill Clinton's actions. They're both abhorrent. Just because one guy does something bad doesn't mean you get to point and say, "But he did something worse?!?!" It doesn't make those comments any more acceptable.







Nothing gray about it at all. Kobe settled with her. He admitted he had sex with her. It's a complete line of BS to say supporting Kobe does not equal supporting rape culture. It's like Trump quoting Warren Buffet on taxes. Thanks, but I'll just listen to the message from the guy that actually pays taxes than the guy that dodges them.



Overriding theme: As long as someone agrees with my world view, hypocrisy is ok.

Right, but admitting he had sex with her is not the same as admitting he sexually assaulted her. He claims he thought everything they did was consensual. Again, I agree that his claim smells like BS. But I'm not going to project my thoughts on irfujl.

I agree with your statement above that he could be passively supporting rape culture despite not buying directly from Kobe. I'm just saying, homer glasses are strong. A Lakers/Kobe fan could very easily look at the same info you and I had and come to a different conclusion.


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[ssbledsoe]

Originally Posted by NeilCO

Right, but admitting he had sex with her is not the same as admitting he sexually assaulted her. He claims he thought everything they did was consensual. Again, I agree that his claim smells like BS. But I'm not going to project my thoughts on irfujl.

I agree with your statement above that he could be passively supporting rape culture despite not buying directly from Kobe. I'm just saying, homer glasses are strong. A Lakers/Kobe fan could very easily look at the same info you and I had and come to a different conclusion.


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It's not just admitting having sex. Kobe actually settled litigation with her. Why settle if you are innocent? I appreciate the polite discourse, but the issue with rape culture is that people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt. You know the, "well maybe she was looking for a payday"; "he wasn't convicted."

Sorry, I won't back down on the insistence that there's "gray" area. The woman pursued legal action and was paid off by Kobe to keep quiet. It's rape. Let's not dress it up otherwise.

[zachtruitt]

So the Patriots are cheaters since they were punished for that? (I don't care about air in footballs. I think it was a waste of money over nothing)
I like some of R. Kelly's songs, does that make me a supporter of the disgusting things he has done? Let's get real.

[NeilCO]

Originally Posted by ssbledsoe

It's not just admitting having sex. Kobe actually settled litigation with her. Why settle if you are innocent? I appreciate the polite discourse, but the issue with rape culture is that people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt. You know the, "well maybe she was looking for a payday"; "he wasn't convicted."



Sorry, I won't back down on the insistence that there's "gray" area. The woman pursued legal action and was paid off by Kobe to keep quiet. It's rape. Let's not dress it up otherwise.

And again, I'm not disagreeing with you that *I* believe it was rape. Therefore *I* do not collect Kobe cards. If *I* collected Kobe cards, despite thinking he is a rapist, I would be passively supporting rape culture.

And honestly, I appreciate your hard stance on rape culture. I don't understand why you're going along with this idea that the feelings of a sexual assault victim, which irfujl shared, can be ignored because irfujl collects Kobe cards.

Yes, it would be hypocritical for irfujl to condemn Trump while collecting Kobe, IF irfujl feels the same way about Kobe that you and I do. It would still not invalidate the quotes he shared.


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[ssbledsoe]

Originally Posted by zachtruitt

So the Patriots are cheaters since they were punished for that? (I don't care about air in footballs. I think it was a waste of money over nothing)
I like some of R. Kelly's songs, does that make me a supporter of the disgusting things he has done? Let's get real.

Comparing rape and rules of the NFL is beyond absurd.

Originally Posted by NeilCO

And again, I'm not disagreeing with you that *I* believe it was rape. Therefore *I* do not collect Kobe cards. If *I* collected Kobe cards, despite thinking he is a rapist, I would be passively supporting rape culture.

And honestly, I appreciate your hard stance on rape culture. I don't understand why you're going along with this idea that the feelings of a sexual assault victim, which irfujl shared, can be ignored because irfujl collects Kobe cards.

Yes, it would be hypocritical for irfujl to condemn Trump while collecting Kobe, IF irfujl feels the same way about Kobe that you and I do. It would still not invalidate the quotes he shared.


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We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not invalidating the quotes that he shared. I'm amazed that someone that supposedly understands rape culture exhibits such hypocrisy.

[zachtruitt]

Absurd is saying someone supports rape culture because they have Kobe Bryant basketball cards. Mickey Mantle was a drunk that went through multiple livers due to his selfish behavior. If someone has a Yankees hat, are they supporting irresponsible drinking? Where does it end? John Lennon beat up Yoko Ono and wrote songs about it. I can't enjoy the Beatles and their music?

Rape is wrong and rapists are scum. I don't want good things for them. But come on.

[jarrodsalas]

Originally Posted by NeilCO

And again, I'm not disagreeing with you that *I* believe it was rape. Therefore *I* do not collect Kobe cards. If *I* collected Kobe cards, despite thinking he is a rapist, I would be passively supporting rape culture.

And honestly, I appreciate your hard stance on rape culture. I don't understand why you're going along with this idea that the feelings of a sexual assault victim, which irfujl shared, can be ignored because irfujl collects Kobe cards.

Yes, it would be hypocritical for irfujl to condemn Trump while collecting Kobe, IF irfujl feels the same way about Kobe that you and I do. It would still not invalidate the quotes he shared.


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We have no idea what Trump has done to women in the past. His off-the-cuff comments to Bush in the middle of a conversation with a bus full of guys talking about women does not promote rape culture. Do we really think he was walking around grabbing women's crotches? His comment was, "when you are a star they let you do it". Maybe the women instigated it? His comment can be looked at many different ways. Sure you can twist it into rape but do we honestly think that was the case? Maybe because he was a star he had women approaching him? Could that be possible?

[redsoxx11]

It's pretty simple... If you say Trump's remarks are "the worst thing ever, I need a safespace because muh feels"

and yet you support (see above Kobe, Ray rice Et. All) which you are allowed to do...
don't start crying foul when you get called out for being a hypocrite and drama queen(or king) I don't want to assume any genders...

[zachtruitt]

Don't say disgusting things is the lesson here. He said it, why defend it? Condemn it and move on.

[trixstar]

@samsteinhp
SIREN
NBC/WSJ poll
Clinton Trump (4-way)
46%-35%

Clinton Trump (2-way)
52%-38%

@natesilver538
Should point out that the NBC/WSJ poll used a pretty small sample size, and has generally had good numbers for Clinton. But, yeah...

[ssbledsoe]

Originally Posted by zachtruitt

Absurd is saying someone supports rape culture because they have Kobe Bryant basketball cards. Mickey Mantle was a drunk that went through multiple livers due to his selfish behavior. If someone has a Yankees hat, are they supporting irresponsible drinking? Where does it end? John Lennon beat up Yoko Ono and wrote songs about it. I can't enjoy the Beatles and their music?

Rape is wrong and rapists are scum. I don't want good things for them. But come on.

You're free to do/support whatever/whoever you please. It's a free country and all. It doesn't mean people can't call out hypocrisy. Carry on.

[zachtruitt]

I just thought you were more intelligent then these "gotcha" comments. Everyone has done something hypocritical, some more than others. I just think as adults we can separate art from the artist.
Mother Teresa probably killed a fly or used God's name in vain when she stubbed her toe. I wouldn't say that makes her a hypocrite, probably just a flawed human like the rest of us.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by ssbledsoe

It's not just admitting having sex. Kobe actually settled litigation with her. Why settle if you are innocent? I appreciate the polite discourse, but the issue with rape culture is that people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt. You know the, "well maybe she was looking for a payday"; "he wasn't convicted."

Sorry, I won't back down on the insistence that there's "gray" area. The woman pursued legal action and was paid off by Kobe to keep quiet. It's rape. Let's not dress it up otherwise.

I am not saying Kobe did or din't rape that woman. But settling litigation does not necessarily mean guilt or innocence. Sometimes, people with means rather settle than take a risk of what 12 random people will think or settle rather than have a drawn out press filled court battle.

Frankly, I don't like Kobe because he cheated on his wife and that makes him scum enough to me. But only he and that woman really know if he raped her.

[jarrodsalas]

Originally Posted by trixstar

@samsteinhp
SIREN
NBC/WSJ poll
Clinton Trump (4-way)
46%-35%

Clinton Trump (2-way)
52%-38%

@natesilver538
Should point out that the NBC/WSJ poll used a pretty small sample size, and has generally had good numbers for Clinton. But, yeah...

Cue the Trump won polls..

Also, lost respect for 538 this morning. Read their take. Holy crap. They said when Trump made the "You would be in jail" comment that it was near the end for him. Did they have their screens on mute? The entire audience erupted.

[ssbledsoe]

Originally Posted by zachtruitt

I just thought you were more intelligent then these "gotcha" comments. Everyone has done something hypocritical, some more than others. I just think as adults we can separate art from the artist.
Mother Teresa probably killed a fly or used God's name in vain when she stubbed her toe. I wouldn't say that makes her a hypocrite, probably just a flawed human like the rest of us.

Clearly you've overestimated my intelligence.

Originally Posted by Skipscards

I am not saying Kobe did or din't rape that woman. But settling litigation does not necessarily mean guilt or innocence. Sometimes, people with means rather settle than take a risk of what 12 random people will think or settle rather than have a drawn out press filled court battle.

Frankly, I don't like Kobe because he cheated on his wife and that makes him scum enough to me. But only he and that woman really know if he raped her.

I'd much rather plead my case than live with the tag. Besides, it was pretty well covered in the press as it were. My integrity doesn't have a dollar figure attached to it.

[redsoxx11]

Originally Posted by jarrodsalas

Cue the Trump won polls..

Also, lost respect for 538 this morning. Read their take. Holy crap. They said when Trump made the "You would be in jail" comment that it was near the end for him. Did they have their screens on mute? The entire audience erupted.

MSM is not aligned with the public, CNN is the literal propaganda arm of the Clinton campaign
+ Correct the Record paying 6+ Mil to "correct the record" on social media. Fox is establishment never Trumpers

You'll never have fair reporting when a populist takes on the establishment, even Bernie was hung out to dry by the media.

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by trixstar

@samsteinhp
SIREN
NBC/WSJ poll
Clinton Trump (4-way)
46%-35%

Clinton Trump (2-way)
52%-38%

@natesilver538
Should point out that the NBC/WSJ poll used a pretty small sample size, and has generally had good numbers for Clinton. But, yeah...

Latest Rasmusen poll (right leaning) has Clinton +7. This latest wave of polls is as bad as it gets for Trump.

[exitmusicblue]

Originally Posted by trixstar

@samsteinhp
SIREN
NBC/WSJ poll
Clinton Trump (4-way)
46%-35%

Clinton Trump (2-way)
52%-38%

@natesilver538
Should point out that the NBC/WSJ poll used a pretty small sample size, and has generally had good numbers for Clinton. But, yeah...

Plus CNN snap poll post-debate was 57-34 Clinton win.

At this point the Trump hate is mass-driven and instinctive. As it should be.

[TheHeel]

Slime Paul Ryan has abandoned Trump.

[redsoxx11]

Mrs Bill Clinton's foreign policy advisor for her campaign to Trump: "Go F**k yourself". Tolerant left getting salty. We're winning! Bigly! - Imgur

OMFG My kid just saw this tweet, she's in her room right now crying!!! How could you !!

That's Clintons Foreign Policy Advisor..BTW

[jarrodsalas]

Originally Posted by redsoxx11

Mrs Bill Clinton's foreign policy advisor for her campaign to Trump: "Go F**k yourself". Tolerant left getting salty. We're winning! Bigly! - Imgur

OMFG My kid just saw this tweet, she's in her room right now crying!!! How could you !!

That's Clintons Foreign Policy Advisor..BTW

Is that really her foreign policy advisor? He looks young enough to have just graduated from UC Berkeley.

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Slime Paul Ryan has abandoned Trump.

He has no choice really. It's a sinking ship and he has to protect the brand as much as possible. It is over, it is just a matter of how bad Trump is going to lose by now. GOP would be smart to support another candidate to write in.

[jarrodsalas]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Slime Paul Ryan has abandoned Trump.

He is going to stop defending him. All articles I have read says he stopped short of pulling his endorsement.