LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[Siberian13]

Has anyone here actually met all three Eric, Jack and sohrob in person?

[JayConley]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Has anyone here actually met all three Eric, Jack and sohrob in person?

Seems logical that a guy would make up this story and expose his card and cost himself a bit of money. I get that we are private detectives and all, but some hunches shouldn’t be followed.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by JayConley

Seems logical that a guy would make up this story and expose his card and cost himself a bit of money. I get that we are private detectives and all, but some hunches shouldn’t be followed.

Is that a yes or no? I’m just curious if anyone has actually met or knows all these guys?

[Doublestriker]

Guys it would still sell for top dollar. Only a very small percentage of buyers would even know it was trimmed. Most buyers do not belong or read blowout or any other forums. We all assume every buyer would know the history. Wrong!

Originally Posted by mj2kb

Say the value of BGS 9 Lebron RPA is now $200K, so how much does the altered BGS 9 like #74 and #87 worth now? Do you guys think it still worth at least half of it? If you are in position to buy would you pay half of the market value for an altered card?

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Doublestriker

Guys it would still sell for top dollar. Only a very small percentage of buyers would even know it was trimmed. Most buyers do not belong or read blowout or any other forums. We all assume every buyer would know the history. Wrong!

There's no doubts it will sell...and probably still for absurd money.

But I think you may be underestimating the caliber of these cards and the type of people that invest in them. I'm fairly certain a person potentially dropping 6 figures on a card would at minimum do a google search or know the landscape of the population and availability of the cards.

It's not exactly an unnumbered Luka Doncic silver prizm base.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by Doublestriker

Guys it would still sell for top dollar. Only a very small percentage of buyers would even know it was trimmed. Most buyers do not belong or read blowout or any other forums. We all assume every buyer would know the history. Wrong!

Show me an auction house that will keep it on the block with irrefutable evidence of trimming.

Private sale will be the way to go...and hope that the buyer doesn't get wind of the trimming until after the statute of limitations runs out.

I agree that the forum world is tiny, totally minuscule.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by discostu

Show me an auction house that will keep it on the block with irrefutable evidence of trimming.

Private sale will be the way to go...and hope that the buyer doesn't get wind of the trimming until after the statute of limitations runs out.

I agree that the forum world is tiny, totally minuscule.

Without it being more than an internet thread saying it was trimmed a lot would take the risk

[ReggieEvansPC]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Without it being more than an internet thread saying it was trimmed a lot would take the risk

But it's not just "the internet" saying it's trimmed. There is irrefutable visual evidence.

[chuckerrrr]

Im sure the cards will still fetch good coin someday even Altered. People are saying well “hardly anyone will know they are trimmed.”

Is Eric going to do the right thing by the community/society and have the cards put in their rightful cases??? ALTERED!!!

Cause he is well aware now they are trimmed. So to go on to try sell as 9s knowing this info is fraud. Criminal activity.

I hope for his sake the power of greed doesnt take over and he risks everything by trying to sell spmeday as 9s then to only get sprung Mastro style.

Eric may not have altered the card/s himself. Does not mean you can sell it as a 9.


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[exoticprince]

Originally Posted by discostu

Show me an auction house that will keep it on the block with irrefutable evidence of trimming.

Private sale will be the way to go...and hope that the buyer doesn't get wind of the trimming until after the statute of limitations runs out.

I agree that the forum world is tiny, totally minuscule.

Large auction houses have listed very high profile graded cards in their graded cases that they knew to be trimmed, with an asterisk, exactly the same as the famous trimmed MJ PMG red BGS 9.5 (see link below).

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/lo...al_gems___23_m

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Doublestriker

Guys it would still sell for top dollar. Only a very small percentage of buyers would even know it was trimmed. Most buyers do not belong or read blowout or any other forums. We all assume every buyer would know the history. Wrong!

I thought he listed it for 90k on EBay and it didn't sell. Then there was the questionable 250k sale and he tried to sell it for 110k and it didn't sell. But now that it is known to be trimmed, it will sell for top dollar? No doubt it would bring 5 figures, but some of these numbers are being thrown around aren't realistic. What did the MJ auto jersey /23 sell for? Or the PMG green? Or the LeBron rookie Logoman? There are 99 of these. If you really think it will bring that much, give it to a reputable auction house and see. Without any recent verifiable sales, these opinions are just hope and wishful thinking.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by rats60

I thought he listed it for 90k on EBay and it didn't sell. Then there was the questionable 250k sale and he tried to sell it for 110k and it didn't sell. But now that it is known to be trimmed, it will sell for top dollar? No doubt it would bring 5 figures, but some of these numbers are being thrown around aren't realistic. What did the MJ auto jersey /23 sell for? Or the PMG green? Or the LeBron rookie Logoman? There are 99 of these. If you really think it will bring that much, give it to a reputable auction house and see. Without any recent verifiable sales, these opinions are just hope and wishful thinking.

I think that was the 2-color trim 50/99 BGS 8.5 copy.

I would like to see one up for auction at a major auction house.

A 2009 Bowman Draft Gold Auto Mike Trout BGS 9.5 “sold” on eBay for $160k in July. A Goldin auction went for $59k at the end of October.

So yeah, anybody crying about skepticism over these huge eBay sales is either a clown or trying to manipulate the market.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by exoticprince

Large auction houses have listed very high profile graded cards in their graded cases that they knew to be trimmed, with an asterisk, exactly the same as the famous trimmed MJ PMG red BGS 9.5 (see link below).

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/lo...al_gems___23_m

I absolutely agree and should have mentioned cases like this Jordan PMG.

[Orangejello727]

There are people that will pay big $$ for cards like the Lebron even if they are trimmed. But the elite collectors and purist will seek out perfection and pay premiums to un altered versions of what they want. Its the same way touched up key issues of comic books still sell well, but the premier collections known seek out original un altered key issues. Same goes with artwork. Would you rather have an altered version of a picasso or the original piece untouched?

Some collectors are ok with adding a lower quality piece to their collection just for the sake of saying they have one.

[exoticprince]

Originally Posted by discostu

I absolutely agree and should have mentioned cases like this Jordan PMG.

Yea I think if you ask any buyer who’s buying to hold forever and not sell,

1) would you prefer to buy it in a 9.5 holder and living with the fact it’s trimmed in a 9.5 holder, or
2) would you prefer to buy it with an ugly blue altered label

You’ll find the vast majority of buyers will all choose (1) (even with no intent to ever resell). I think as long as auction houses disclose any alternations this is what’s most important. Some buyers will still love it in a graded holder for eye appeal, satisfaction of seeing it in a 9.5 holder etc

[Siberian13]

If BGS were notified about these obviously trimmed cards, would they update the serial numbers on their end to say altered/trimmed. I know the labels won’t be changed until someone sends them in but on their end it may help someone who wants to buy it. Maybe some high end guys actually check the serial numbers before buying.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I think that was the 2-color trim 50/99 BGS 8.5 copy.

I would like to see one up for auction at a major auction house.

A 2009 Bowman Draft Gold Auto Mike Trout BGS 9.5 “sold” on eBay for $160k in July. A Goldin auction went for $59k at the end of October.

So yeah, anybody crying about skepticism over these huge eBay sales is either a clown or trying to manipulate the market.

If the 97 Jordan Auto Jersey or PMG Green couldn't bring 100k, then LeBron /99 isn't either. Sorry, this is just hype without a verifiable sale. The question is why they wouldn't send it to an AH with buyers who routinely buy 6 and 7 figure cards. Many of them don't bother with ebay or shows, just reputable sellers.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by exoticprince

Large auction houses have listed very high profile graded cards in their graded cases that they knew to be trimmed, with an asterisk, exactly the same as the famous trimmed MJ PMG red BGS 9.5 (see link below).

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/lo...al_gems___23_m

Some have also listed ones that were trimmed with proof only from the public or fake patches and not disclosed the info.

[splum]

As this thread winds down I figured I'd put together Big TL;DR for anyone just joining us, and finish with my own thoughts.

Forum poster rookies (referred to as Jack from here on out) accused forum poster Ebitz (aka Eric aka buynicecards) of personally trimming high end basketball cards.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...81&postcount=9

Jack claims that one of the cards in question, LeBron James Exquisite RPA #74 of 99 that he owned went straight to Eric in a trade in this post, but later on admits that the card went to a middleman named Sohrob (blowout name 2infnitynbeyond)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=226

Eric acquired RPA #74 of 99 and also #87 of 99 when he bought Sohrob's entire collection as noted by forum hero and all around cool dude the27guy

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=230

and Eric himself in his big donezo manifesto

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=641

Important part quoted here

Originally Posted by ebitz

Now, to the actual topic of the thread and my involvement. While I am not in any way happy about the information that has been uncovered about my 2 LeBron Exquisite cards that are in question at this point there is not much that I can do. I’ve owned them for nearly 5 years now and if I think long and hard I can say with great confidence I do not think I’ve ever made a strong effort to put a price on them or sell them. I stand by the fact, which I stated in a post from 2016, that I bought #74/99 as a BGS 9 from sohrob when I bought our his entire collection in 2014 and I did NOT have any knowledge of its prior history. I bought #87 in the same collection raw and graded it BGS 9 when I received it and I recall it being a clean card and didn’t appear trimmed to me. I graded it promptly and it graded BGS 9. I stand by the fact that I did not trim either of these cards or have any involvement with someone else trimming the cards.

I did a little digging just to see if I could put together a timeline of events for context and noticed that #87 was not promptly sent in for grading, as this deal (according to Eric himself and multiple other sources) went down in 2014, and card #87 of 99 was graded in April of 2015. I guess he could've sent it in on a non-guarantee? But that's insanely improbable.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=681

Now, I want to really steer this towards the target that I believe to be worthy of our ire, so here's a link to an entirely different thread. The "BIG EXQUISITE LOST/STOLEN Box" thread.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=685902

From the OP

Originally Posted by verona

With a great member on here, I usually send him my cards for grading and he helps me with Beckett,

Helps me with Beckett? Huh???

I know there are a lot of people who claim to be card doctors. No one that works with any of these guys would be this hesitant to outright name them, but also presumably none of these guys that do this outright trim cards.

It took Verona literally 10 days of posters begging him to name his friend for him to finally do it. The intended recipient of these Exquisites to be sent in to beckett?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=157

Sohrob aka 2infnitynbeyond

Why would it take so long for Verona to say who the cards were sent to?

It makes a ton of sense after looking at 2infnitynbeyond's feedback why a lot of the bigger name posters have declined to really chime in here. Have a look at his itrader.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/itrader.php?u=32725&pp=25

I'll put on my tin foil hat here to finish up and just speculate on things that I'd never be able to prove just to get them off my chest, and hope everyone is able to come to their own conclusions.

I'm not claiming to be right about any of this, this is just what makes sense to me. To me the key to all of this is why was it like pulling teeth to get these three people to mention Sohrob in the first place. I believe it's because they know Sohrob trimmed cards, and the less they say about him the better.

I can't wrap my head around why Jack would suddenly just accuse Eric of being the one to do it. The failed Giannis NT RPA deal makes sense, in which a source told me that a deal was agreed upon and Eric had actually sent Jack the money for the card only to have Jack back out. He declined to mention that in his post about their deal for the card here.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=567

Absolutely no coincidence that years after the original 2014 deal, Sohrob is brought back into the picture in this exchange. That guy very obviously knows everything and is used as leverage in the form of threats of exposure. He's the high end trump card.

Both Jack and Eric haven't been completely truthful with us. We can give them the benefit of the doubt and say they got some dates or details wrong in their memories, or not. For me it's clear that they don't really have a reason to be truthful either way when they know that Sohrob can come in here and take down this entire high end house of cards (pun 100% intended thank you very much) with him with just a few keystrokes.

If I've missed any important details please definitely let me know. I think I got most of the big ones.

Here's an actual picture of me putting all of this together.

[KhalDrogo]

Nice summary.

[PKIPP]

In with the obligatory Billy Madison reference...

ERIC is a BAD, BAD MAN!!!!!!!


(Kidding)

[theLUCKYshow]

Thanks Splum. I just bumped a thread in regards to a suspected fake sohrob was selling. Look him up guys, 2infnitynbeyond (tricky spelling). Look how many cards he traded/sold through these forums! I'm not saying they are all trimmed but we have to see how far this goes, right?

Again that Lebron /99 exquisite Sohrob sold on these boards in 2013 is of supreme interest. OP said the # 87 was sold on these boards to another member. Remember 87 was supposed to have been a part of the sale of sohrobs whole collection to Eric in 2014. Anyone have any info on this sale?

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[theLUCKYshow]

Double post


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[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

Thanks Splum. I just bumped a thread in regards to a suspected fake sohrob was selling. Look him up guys, 2infnitynbeyond (tricky spelling). Look how many cards he traded/sold through these forums! I'm not saying they are all trimmed but we have to see how far this goes, right?

Again that Lebron /99 exquisite Sohrob sold on these boards in 2013 is of supreme interest. OP said the # 87 was sold on these boards to another member. Remember 87 was supposed to have been a part of the sale of sohrobs whole collection to Eric in 2014. Anyone have any info on this sale?

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Look who was defending sohrob in that thread.

[theLUCKYshow]

Probably my last post today as I'm throwing a party at the Kings game tonight : D

The silence from the high-end community in this thread has been deafening. Why?

Also, I wanted to give my 2 cents on Eric's 1st remarks where he warns us about the direction of these forums. Yes, forums can be an ugly place where pointless attacks and ugly name-calling is common place. However, the most important role of our Forum, arguably, is policing our hobby that sometimes resembles the Wild Wild West. Look at the Fake PMG rubies Thread by Roger Marris, one of the best threads on the site. His thread has revealed multiple fakes and in many ways has brought a certain peace of mind to buyers because there is a place to go and discuss possible fakes. Many thought the opposite would happen when it was first posted.

If we truly want 30 Nat Turners in the hobby it is important they feel a certain level of safety. Turning a blind eye to trimming and trying to sweep it under the rug does nothing to further promote our hobby. Uncovering the damage that has been done, finding the culprits, and finding ways to prevent them from ever happening again is the only way to truly grow this hobby, even in the high-end.

So yes, go blowout go, we are our own police force!

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