PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[ken161]

Originally Posted by corndog

I began researching cards that were purchased by Gary Moser's whitman111 (w***1) Ebay ID in the months prior to May, 2019 when the Moser/Huigens card trimming scandal broke. I figured that in time they would begin resurfacing and they have. Once I found the first one I searched the PSA database for the submission cert number run associated with that first card and only found a few that were purchased by whitman111 that were scattered in the submission run. I then went back through the cert run and checked purchases used by other Ebay buyer masked IDs and ultimately found three others that were intermingled in the same submission as the w***1 cards.
Cards purchased and resubbed to PSA by all three of the other IDs either received grade bumps, were altered, received Brent Huigens' stickers or had glowing descriptions written by PWCC. These were the same favorable characteristics given to Moser altered cards.

Many of these cards that were bought by the three non w***1 buyers were purchased AFTER May 2019, when Gary Moser abandoned his whitman111 Ebay ID and PWCC/Huigens began cooperating with the FBI.
Brent Huigens also released a statement mentioning he had cut ties with Gary Moser.

Due to the difficult nature of identifying masked IDs it is improbable that I can determine who they are or what town or city they are located.
The FBI can easily identify them. PSA would know who the submitter was.

Over the next few days or weeks I will try to describe my findings.

The masked IDs discovered so far are:

f***-, v***v and s***b.

Quite frankly, I'm not surprised. As long as so many people are willing to pay uber-premiums for high-grade slabs, and there are no serious repercussions from law enforcement, the card doctors will do their thing.

It also wouldn't surprise me if a few card doctors went roaming the aisles at the National this weekend, looking for candidates for an "upgrade" (preferably cards without any digital fingerprint).

But the unholy alliance between card doctors, speculators and auction houses can only prop up this unsustainable market for so long. When the music stops, things could get pretty ugly for people with a lot of $$$ tied up in slabs.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by ken161

Quite frankly, I'm not surprised. As long as so many people are willing to pay uber-premiums for high-grade slabs, and there are no serious repercussions from law enforcement, the card doctors will do their thing.

It also wouldn't surprise me if a few card doctors went roaming the aisles at the National this weekend, looking for candidates for an "upgrade" (preferably cards without any digital fingerprint).

But the unholy alliance between card doctors, speculators and auction houses can only prop up this unsustainable market for so long. When the music stops, things could get pretty ugly for people with a lot of $$$ tied up in slabs.

At least on the vintage side, looking at shows for centered EX to EXMT cards has been the backbone of card doctoring for decades. And it's been going on for decades, I wish it was not sustainable but all appearances are otherwise. $250 a card onsite grading and PSA has to shut the door one day into the show.

[corndog]

This is the 23rd card in the PSA cert run and was originally a Gary Moser whitman111 (w***1) purchase.
Eighteen cert #'s previously, #46655674 was also a Moser whitman111 purchase which ties masked ID v***v with Moser/Huigens cards based on them being submitted together - 5 or 6 months after the trimming scandal broke.

Card was sold thru Probstein123.

PSA Cert #46655692

1954 Bowman Willie Mays #89

Value gain of $530.00

PSA Set Registry: none found

This card was purchased by Gary Moser (whitman111) from Ebay seller krukcards as a SGC 6.5 on November 24, 2017 for $257.00.

Same card was sold by probstein123 as a PSA 7 for $787.00 on June 29, 2020.

Yellow circles are print, chipping, stain or fiber identifiers.
Red boxes identify trimmed left and right edges as well as fake rough cuts added.

[corndog]

This is the 26th card in the PSA cert run and was originally a v***v masked ID purchase.
This card has had a fake rough cut added to it just like the Willie Mays card above. The Mays card was a w***1 Moser purchase and this card was a v***v purchase. and they are just three cert #'s apart. The fake rough cut is a very uncommon alteration amongst card doctors. Moser and Huigens have utilized this technique a number of times.

Card was sold thru Probstein123.

PSA Cert #46655695

1954 Bowman George Blanda #23

Value gain of $328.99

PSA Set Registry: PackerMania

This card was purchased by unknown masked ID v***v from Ebay seller cardsandcoins as a PSA 5 on May 14, 2019 for $54.00.

Same card was sold by probstein123 as a PSA 7 for $382.99 on January 14, 2021.

Yellow circles are print, chipping, stain or fiber identifiers.
Red boxes identify trimmed left and right edges as well as fake rough cuts added.
No back image provided with probstein123 sale so I used print flaws
and the large indention in the lower left border.



Area of print flaws:

[pip]

Even the comical dental tool rough cut couldn't hide that HUGE divot missing from the left side of the Blanda RC. How did that card get an "7"? It still looks like a 5 to me, the trimming notwithstanding.

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by pip

Even the comical dental tool rough cut couldn't hide that HUGE divot missing from the left side of the Blanda RC. How did that card get an "7"? It still looks like a 5 to me, the trimming notwithstanding.

Most of these altered cards just make you angry. This one actually made me laugh.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by pip

Even the comical dental tool rough cut couldn't hide that HUGE divot missing from the left side of the Blanda RC. How did that card get an "7"? It still looks like a 5 to me, the trimming notwithstanding.

This is the important part of the Blanda post:

This is the 26th card in the PSA cert run and was originally a v***v masked ID purchase.
This card has had a fake rough cut added to it just like the Willie Mays card above. The Mays card was a w***1 Moser purchase and this card was a v***v purchase and they are just three cert #'s apart. The fake rough cut is a very uncommon alteration amongst card doctors. Moser and Huigens have utilized this technique a number of times.

The Blanda card was purchased in mid May of 2019 with a buyer masked ID of v***v.
Moser shut down his whitman111 Ebay account around the same time.

Same dental work on both cards.

[JR42collector]

I'm not there this year, but from my vintage friends who are walking around the floor at the national, they're seeing a TON of raw vintage cards. More raw than slabbed. Even the high-end stuff is raw. If you think buying PSA slabs are risky, you should try buying some of these high-grade, high-end vintage raw cards. How many of them do you think were rejected by PSA and SGC for alterations?

Clearly, the grading companies aren't perfect. But like them or not, they're still a necessary evil in this hobby.

[pip]

Originally Posted by JR42collector

I'm not there this year, but from my vintage friends who are walking around the floor at the national, they're seeing a TON of raw vintage cards. More raw than slabbed. Even the high-end stuff is raw. If you think buying PSA slabs are risky, you should try buying some of these high-grade, high-end vintage raw cards. How many of them do you think were rejected by PSA and SGC for alterations?

Clearly, the grading companies aren't perfect. But like them or not, they're still a necessary evil in this hobby.

I would much rather buy high-end vintage raw than in a PSA holder because it is easier to look at. Well, that and the fact that a number on the holder is no guarantee that the card (surface, corners, edges) is still factory original.

[Vintagecollect]

Originally Posted by pip

I would much rather buy high-end vintage raw than in a PSA holder because it is easier to look at. Well, that and the fact that a number on the holder is no guarantee that the card (surface, corners, edges) is still factory original.

Just curious if you are under the assumption:

"there are more altered cards in holders, than altered raw cards"?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[JR42collector]

I just went back to the OP in this thread and looked up the cert number for that 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. It's still an active cert number. As it should be. This card has not been altered. Someone simply soaked it in water and stuck it in a napkin to dry flat beneath a stack of books. This is extremely common and acceptable by both PSA and SGC. I thought most collectors knew this. Clearly, I was wrong. It has not been trimmed, yet somehow it takes almost 4 pages before anyone even points this fact out. The overwhelming majority of people posting think this card was trimmed despite the photos clearly showing otherwise.

If anyone sees this card back up for auction again, please send me a PM. I would love to add it to my collection.

[pip]

Originally Posted by Vintagecollect

Just curious if you are under the assumption:

"there are more altered cards in holders, than altered raw cards"?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

If we are talking percent, it depends on the year, series, and player. With me, however, it doesn't matter as I pay money based on the condition of the card. I don't buy flips unless the assigned number is consistent with the actual grade. And yes, that does sometimes happen.

[corndog]

This is the 28th card in the PSA cert run and was originally a Gary Moser whitman111 (w***1) purchase.

Card was altered by trimming with subtle rough edges added and received a 2 grade drop by PSA.
Was sold thru PWCC with Brent Huigens once again adding a sticker to his own card.

PSA Cert #46655696

1953 Bowman Color Duke Snider #117

Value LOSS of $177.48

PSA Set Registry: none found

This card was purchased by Gary Moser (whitman111) from Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 6 on December 05, 2018 for $382.98.

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 4 for $205.50 on September 15, 2020.

Yellow circles are print, chipping, stain or fiber identifiers.
Red boxes identify trimmed left and right edges.

[pip]

Wow. A really nice 1953 Bowman Duke Snider, with perfect centering no less, was totally ruined. There's no way this is "giving collectors what they really want."

[corndog]

I do not know who purchased this card from Heritage Auctions or submitted it to PSA. It was part of a 3 or 4 card submission.

PSA Cert #42449297

1955 Bowman Bob St. Clair #101

Value gain of $7,695.00

PSA Set Registry: private

This card was purchased by an unknown bidder from Heritage Auctions as a SGC 8 on September 30, 2018 for $216.00.

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $7,911.00 on February 24, 2019.

Yellow circles are print, chipping, stain or fiber identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed left edge.

Left edge turned on it's side:

[pip]

Does anyone else see the tremendous irony of the obscene profit made on the 1955 Bowman Bob St. Clair? PSA, as a matter of company policy, will reject most cross-overs from Beckett and SGC and yet when a card from one of these holders is removed and trimmed, it ends up in a PSA 9 holder. Does PSA even look at the actual card anymore before grading it?

Also, that's not a fake Moser rough cut on the left edge. Someone else is the author of that molestation.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by JR42collector

I just went back to the OP in this thread and looked up the cert number for that 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. It's still an active cert number. As it should be. This card has not been altered. Someone simply soaked it in water and stuck it in a napkin to dry flat beneath a stack of books. This is extremely common and acceptable by both PSA and SGC. I thought most collectors knew this. Clearly, I was wrong. It has not been trimmed, yet somehow it takes almost 4 pages before anyone even points this fact out. The overwhelming majority of people posting think this card was trimmed despite the photos clearly showing otherwise.

If anyone sees this card back up for auction again, please send me a PM. I would love to add it to my collection.

If that's all that was done I don't have an issue with it. Soaking in water is the only way I know of to get many issues out of old scrapbooks and make them available to collectors, which IMO is a good thing. I've seen the argument that at some level it affects fibers, but it's an imperfect world. Cross the line to bleach or other cleaning agents, though, I have an issue. We've seen many cards where assuming the scans are accurate there's no way the cards were just soaked in water.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by pip

Wow. A really nice 1953 Bowman Duke Snider, with perfect centering no less, was totally ruined. There's no way this is "giving collectors what they really want."

Agreed! Collectors, most anyway, would have wanted the 6 to turn into an 8.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #42313865

1954 Bowman William Bruton #224

Value gain of $31.24

PSA Set Registry: none found

This card was purchased by Gary Moser (whitman111) from Ebay seller quality*cards as a PSA 6 on June 07, 2018 for $35.99.

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 7 for $67.23 on March 13, 2019.

Yellow circles are print, chipping, stain or fiber identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed right edge with fake rough cut added.

[pip]

I would much rather have the PSA 6 Bruton than the PSA 7. It actually looks like the card got worse. The card molesters only care about the PSA label, nothing else.

[corndog]

Edited to delete.
I had already posted this card 2 years ago and inadvertently had the last two digits transposed.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by pip

I would much rather have the PSA 6 Bruton than the PSA 7. It actually looks like the card got worse. The card molesters only care about the PSA label, nothing else.

With the 6 also coming from a noted card trimmer, Craig Roehrig (quality*cards), I wouldn't have wanted that one just based on the seller.

[pip]

Originally Posted by auburn35

With the 6 also coming from a noted card trimmer, Craig Roehrig (quality*cards), I wouldn't have wanted that one just based on the seller.

Good call. I missed that. First the corners were likely worked over then the card was trimmed.

[DragonWagon]

Updated the data base. Now with over 4,000 cards that have been altered, mislabeled, faked, etc...

https://www.tiffanycards.com/buyer-beware

[auburn35]

Thought this would be a good thread to post this interview. Pretty good listen.

Short interview with Michael O'Keeffe, author of The Card: Collectors, Con Men, and the True Story of History's Most Desired Baseball Card.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4bS...-w&dl_branch=1